MissMonaro

Interesting. I actually know of a couple that bought a pair of litter mates. Not sure which bit below happened first as it was many years ago... 1. Taken in for desexing....one, no probs....but there were complications with the other one and she was pulled out of the operation and not desexed. I think she had a fit. 2. One particularly hot day, they took them to the beach.....brought them home and the same one above had another fit. Apparently not the first time, as she had had minor quirky things before, like being exhausted and collapsing...but never fitting. The vet did do tests for epilepsy, but I think the prognosis was inconclusive. Now I am wondering if it possibly was in fact EIC.

Our girl is almost 6 weeks now and only just starting to show (turns out there are a few in there). You really wouldnt know just looking at her as she just looks well fed. :nahnah:

Thanks everyone. She is 5 weeks and compared to some of the pickies you guys have been putting up, I thought she's not really showing much at all. Yet I just looked at her tonight and thought OMG - she is starting to look quite pregnant now. I'm starting to get really excited now.

Well exciting news for us this morning..........confirmed pregnancy ;) Labrador puppies due about 5th December.

Beautiful pickies as always

That is one seriously cute puppy

I'm not in the habit of smelling dogs feet, so I'll take your word for that one. ummm....interesting - will make mental note to maybe think about this next time I hydrobath. Although have to say, with both my yellows - as soon as you wash them, the first thing they do is try to become black or chocolate straight away.

Pointeeblab.....it has been a long tough haul so far, thats for sure. I still have that desire to succeed - and we finally have some sound dogs to work with - but do have to admit that this last year has been the most challenging in regards to ppl within my breed (unfortunately) and hence why I have felt very disheartened and have felt several times about giving the breed up. But everytime I step out my back door and see those beautiful faces light up, I realise that I still get so much enjoyment from my Labs and I really do love the breed. So I'm not quite giving up just yet. p.s. I was going to add.....maybe its one of those rare "charcoal" ones from America. Pesh - nothing really to add from me - sorry I cant offer any advice - except I have seen some black dogs that look "black" and some look black, but when standing together, the colour isnt quite as deep.

Sorry 1st of November Ohhhh I misread.......in that case thats only a week away. You would of thought then if she had an ultrasound at 4 weeks, then they would of saw something if she was pregnant.

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due. How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

I've had scans done using both methods and have had positive and accurate results (including predicted numbers) from both methods. I have had some corker of phantoms as well - just like Mikelli explained - right down to the "look quick I'm in labour" actions. So much so that I actually took her to the vets and said "are you sure she's not pregnant?" We had a similar thing with a staffy bitch we had (ok, it was before I saw the light of the purebred dog world ) and we had mated her and she went through the whole thing, right up to the panting and nesting in the yard.....when nothing happened, we rushed her to the vet, and turns out she wasnt even pregnant.

I think this person is doing a bit of a phone around with the same story. This was in person, miss monaro Must be a few of them on the loose at the moment.......wanting to breed xmas puppies no doubt. How far along would she be Steve ? I've only ever 2 ultrasounded for differing reasons ......but both were lying down on the table. The 2nd bitch we know was mated, but didnt get fat at all. Ultrasound showed only 1 puppy (which some might remember was my little hairless girl). The first bitch we never felt the babies move and she hid them well for a small dog...but she had 7 (6 surviving). But on a side note.....I also have a bitch that has/had full on phantoms. So much so that her teats would swell up and the milk would drip out of them. Earlier this year I had her desexed as she was due in season again, and the vet who did the op said there is no way this bitch was coming into season again.....she had cysts in her uterine horns. She said it was like for all intent that the bitch thought they were babies. Turns out we were lucky we made the call when we did.

I think this person is doing a bit of a phone around with the same story.

Thanks Blackdog. Although I do note you have two no. 2 points..... I definately do agree on some of those points, but can you clarify a bit more on the limited / main register thing a little bit ?? As for the "new" people coming in to the breed. I think there are plenty of those - too many that unfortunately, and I refer to your points, are breeding strictly for the pet market, and or following that quick colour fad thing, and never do anything to actively promote the breed. We are relatively new to the breeding side of things and we have found that sadly there just feels a real lack of "genuine/honest" people to talk too and/or help/mentor new breeders. Dont get me wrong, there are a small amount of breeders that have been helpful to us and for which we have been most appreciative....however, we have also found that some breeders are all too quick to cut each others throats, and trying to find information about certain "lines" is like banging your head against a brick wall at times. This is very disheartening and also why many probably don't stay in the breed, or drop out of the system, and breed "pets".

:D ;) Just waiting for you to give us your answers to the 3 things.

I do like the pink nails..... I hope they find her soon. Best of luck. Blackdog - Now that we have given you our thoughts.....I'm sure we'd all like to hear yours on the subject.

Sorry to hear about all the problems you have been having with your boy. We hip and elbow score ours around 14 months of age. The ones that did not pass as suitable for breeding, were desexed and rehomed to family homes as pets. However, none of mine ever swelled up, or had any form of paralysis like you are saying you have encountered with yours. Are they sure that it is to do with the bone and not a muscle or ligament type of issue ??? The two issues might not even be related. One of our oldies does have hip dysplasia (not one I bred). She was desexed and we still have her. We always felt that if she could have 6 "good" years then we would never put her through an expensive hip operation. She is now 8 years of age and still will chase a ball and play with the younger ones. She does let them know when she has had enough. Winter is the worst though and we ensure she is kept warm (for the athritis) and she is currently on glucosomine and fish oil tablets. A friend of mine also has a labrador that was diagnosed with HD at 10 months of age. This dog also has PRA and was starting to go blind by 4. Her dog has just turned 11 and is still going. No operations, but just management of the issues and she gets catrophen injections. Have you considered taking him to see an othapedic specialist ?? One of mine did cruciate damage and had a broken foot (due to another lab grabbing her leg whilst running) and the after hours vet I saw at the time wanted to do expensive surgery to fix. As she was possibly pregnant, an operation was also out of the immediate question and we had some decisions to make. I said I'd like a 2nd opinion and it was my own vet that told me to see a specialist. The specialist splinted the leg....long story short....after pups were born, back to the specialist and he felt it had healed well and so no operation was necessary. Yahh !! So these things are not always the end of the world.

This is a subject that I have unforunately dealt with a little too often with dogs I have bought. So here is some information that I have collected along the way. Just because both parents are a 0:0 does not mean the pup cannot get Elbow Dysplasia. One of mine came from a line of good scores, so on paper, all would appear good. BUT.... turns out that a certain dog or line in the pedigree when doubled up has caused a double/triple up of the gene (in a quick explanation) and hence produced a problem. When did you have your dog hip and elbow scored ? I am assuming the dog is now over a year old ?? The dog can still be fine for a pet, but I wouldnt include it in my breeding program. The research from the continents of Europe, Britain, Australia, and USA has shown that elbow disease is inherited . There is also information to show that those dogs with the more severe lesions are most likely to produce puppies with serious elbow disease. Consequently grade 3 elbow disease dogs should not be used for breeding and the grade 2 cases should be considered as serious risks. Moderate Arthosis (Grade 2) = one or more of the following findings: • (a) osteophytes 2 - 5 mm high on the anconeal process • (b) moderate osteophyte formation (2 - 5 mm in any direction) on locations b, c, d. The front limbs of a four legged animal act as the animal’s fulcrum. Imagine a dog as a teeter-totter. The head and neck form one end, and the back and hind legs the other end. If a dog has hip dysplasia, it is possible for him to get up from a sitting position by throwing his head and neck down, thereby lightening the load on his rear. He can also trot around with his head down. Watch for it in the show ring! It is not possible, however, for him to lighten the load on the front legs in a corresponding manner. Elbow dysplasia is most often bilateral, though one leg will appear worse than the other. A dog with elbow dysplasia will exhibit great difficulty in lowering his front when he tries to lie down. He will lower each leg a little at a time. He’ll rise to a sitting position in a similar manner. Grade I Elbow Dysplasia Minimal bone change along anconeal process of ulna (less than 3mm). Labrador Retrievers (By Birth Year) 1990 thru 1993 3,492 Labradors evaluated, 11.5% ED 1994 thru 1997 8,915 Labradors evaluated, 12.3% ED 1998 thru 2001 10,703 Labradors evaluated, 10.1% ED ( = 1070 dogs affected) Normal Elbows x Normal Elbows = 12.2% offspring affected with ED Normal Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 26.1% - 31.3% offspring affected with ED Dysplastic Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 41.5% offspring affected with ED the rate of ED more than doubled when one parent was affected, and more than tripled when both parents were affected. However, multiple current studies (1, 4, 5) have all concluded that the heritability of ED (defined as UAP, FCP, or OCD) is moderate to high. Grading System: Grade 0 = normal elbows (no enthesophyte formation) Grade 1 = Mild ED (<2mm thickness of new bone formation) Grade 2 = Moderate ED or a primary lesion (2mm to <5 mm of new bone) Grade 3 = Severe ED (5+ mm of new bone formation or UAP) In fact, one study found that the heritability factor of elbow problems was even higher than that for hip dysplasia!

Okay...not sure if this is what you mean but genetic issues aside...... 1. Popularity - its good that its a popular breed, however, with this comes an over abundance of breeders. Okay, supply and demand etc....but a lot are just breeding "purebred" labradors, and IMO a lot of Labradors that are not the best quality. For those that know me personally, know that I have an passion in the chocolate labrador, which I have had for many years.....but unfortunately again, due to popularity and "colour fads", it is disheartening to see the amount of them being produced to satisfy a fad, again.......quantity over quality. 2. Public perception of a negative kind. Having to defend the breed from those that repeatedly say "Labradors bite".....all dogs can BITE. I find the worst offenders are those concerned with BSL and with one of the worlds most popular breeds, they would do better to have us on their side, than continue to alienate us and our breed with these derogatory comments all the time. 3. Still thinking of a third thing........will ponder that some more.

My girl only stands at 20" tall - is small for a lab - and quick. I wouldnt want her to do the top height thats for sure. She's quite happy to just plug along at her own pace. There were others with labs also doing training and they can jump - but the key is exactly that - keep them lean and fit !!! NO fatties. I've also seen afghans and great danes and all sorts of breeds doing agility and the top dog at our obedience club for agility was a cavalier king charles.

Apologies - havent been back into this thread for awhile. As for the agility question - I have a lab at home that absolutely loves the excitement of doing agility training. I could go further with it but I dont think we'd be competitive against the border collies etc. So they can do it.

Normally I do towel them down after their hydrobath....so would that be enough "excess moisture" removed you think ? I've never used a dog dryer before so have no idea at all. We had a havanese visiting once and used my hair dryer on him....tried that on the aussie and it did nothing but annoy the dog more than anything.

That was great :D