holly

Thanks for the correction, I was having a quiet day at work which had me being able to read and post You could very well be right about the grass allergies being mite allergies instead. I can not sit on most grasses here or any other garden, as I break out in a red rash, the Qld biting midget (sandfly) sends me into a spin too, I only need one for the allergy to trigger, we have midgies in our area too, they are smaller than pin head.

Thank you very much Scales of Justice, firstly for the comical image of you out there scouring the grass for the little buggers, lol and also for your thoughtful post, my dog and I really appreciate it. I have done some searches and I can see why Fidos may have worked, as it is Tea Tree Oil based from memory and this site: http://www.catclinic.co.uk/health/harvest.htm stated the T.T.O based products seemed to work the best. I think in my bucket of goodies I also have Fidos, so will give that a try for a week, will also take my dog into the vet and see about a skin scraping. Will post back in the future with what happens. Holly

Hi Scales of Justice for the moment, I am treating as a food allergy, but I have my doubts, because everything that has worked in teh past is not working this time around. My dog is also on Frontline and still I find little bite marks, like fleas do, on the inside of his thighs. I have been bathing in the coal tar, daily, still scratching, it is usuallyl half way down the inside of his tail, on the inside of his fore and hindlegs, flanks and underbelly, there is no hair around the groin area. the eyes are not mucky. I can not see any fleas when I go over the sites that are being scratched. What treatment do you use for the mite you talk about? I have Nusidol at home. I am at a loss, I will drop the Yucca and try the Aloe Vera.

HI Goldchow, I did a search to see what kikiyu grass looks like, but can't find any, we probably have that variety too, as we have so many different types here. I do have my dog running the front yard, but can't bring myself to kennel for awhile until I get on top of it, for they are not use to being locked away and when they have been, they have sat there and howled and howled. But if all else fails, than I may have to do this for awhile. I have not seen Eagle Pak stockists in my area, will try a search. Have you tried Vets Natural?

Hi Steve to save you some trouble, is there a thread that you have made in regards to Aloe Vera? If not can you tell me a bit more? I will also do a search on it. I know I tried Apple Cidar Vinegar for awhile and it made no difference, I think also at least one got some loose bowel movements, forget what it was, but didn't agree with one.

Rappie in the past, I have found roo meat too rich for the GSD's that I have fed it too and also it is very lean, not much fat in it, which may lead to other problems, being busy bush dogs, but I did think about roo meat and may give it a try, so thank you. My supplier can also get fish, so may try that, again, it does lack fat. Eukanuba FP, I have seen some dogs go well on it and some not, it is very expensive and very bland, also it is Eukanuba and they do do clinical trials on animals in the lab, where as Advance doesn't. Packsapunch, thanks for the ideas and the skin guru, lol, I am sure there are many of us here that could wear the crown. Maybe the manufactures need to go back to basics, feeding antibiotics, growth hormones etc, is certainly playing havoc with animals, imagine what it is doing to us! I am glad you have conquered your dogs allergies. The fruits of your hard work. I know I felt fantastic when I got on top of Lugars allergies, going from a dog that the owner was going to PTS, because it was too much trouble, to this (certainly makes it all worth while)

Packsapunch, I think your second idea, is the way to go

HI Rappie where I live all vet tests incur a 100% administer fee, to have a Haemophilia A test cost $200, yet in Sydney it was less than $80. I would have to travel to Brisbane to get the tests done, which would also mean leaving my kids behind. I know the way I am doing it is back to front and in the long run will cost more, but unfortunately, living where I do, it is the best approach. My vet has always recommended looking at diet and flea control first, which I am diong, am loathed to put the dog onto Macrolone etc, which is the other suggestion they have. A few years ago, I had a mature pup come back with severe food and flea allergies, bought about by owner neglect, just putting the dog onto BARF did the trick with him, with this dog, it is more than just food allergies, as the BARF diet made him worse not better, perhaps it is what is being fed to chickens now? The rep for the breeders area of Advance, was saying in the USA the chicken meat is yellow coloured due to artificial colours etc and it is not recommend to feed dogs with allergies, chicken mince as it has made them worse, not better. I have even tried this dog on turkey necks, with no real improvement. But have found that the Advance Large Breed Growth, has given the dog a more luxurious feel and have been adding extra Omega Oils to this. Hopefully the Yucca adn the extra bits will make more of a difference, if not, than I will be looking at enviromental factors

I read about the Yucca on a obscure GSD site, at 2am and I can not find the link now, but they did discuss that the Yucca plant has helped with allergies, perhaps it is the anti inflammatory powers of the root, I am willing to try anything at this stage, as 6months down the track, of swapping diets, meds etc have made little impact, apart from what coat my dog does have, is soft, but hearing them chewing and scratching all night is very upsetting. If this does not work, than I will have to start to break down what is in my garden, no easy task, when I live in the bush, with 10 million grass varieties, lol. I am also using deep sea salmon oil and probotics, my dog does not seem to be as itchy last night, as a week ago. Maybe I am the one that needs the Yucca, the blue that is, lol, especially if I come over to Packsapunch to dig one out, lol.

Okies, thanks and if it is related to Aloe Vera, would it be the same? Can Aloe Vera be used for allergies? As the Yucca was hard to source and is $25 for 100 tablets that will last me about 2 months, whereas I have a Aloe Vera farm just down the road and a Aloe manufacturing plant in town, so would be easier to get a hold of and cheaper too. Thanx Holly

I have been doing some net searchign on correcting allergies in dogs adn came across this herb, Yucca, as well as using Salmon Oil to help to build up the bodies immune system and improve on itchy skin and dull, brittle coat. Has anyone used Yucca before?

We had a lot of cases treated successfully with injections, once a week over 6 weeks, I also have a file on hard drive about Demodectic Mange, if you are interested, PM with your email address and I will send it to you. All dogs are born with Demodectic Mite, but it is in times of stress, eg: when pups are going through fast growth rates, their immunity levels drop and the mite, in some dogs will become a problem. I have also a friend who uses Revolution, monthly as a preventative for one of her dogs, who is suspectable to D.M problems

That is great your puppy is clear of worms, Hookworm, will give blood in stools and Hookworm WILL kill puppies, I saw more than one litter die, over time that came into the vets where I use to work. Did your vet give you a strong worming protocol to use for awhile? We worm very 2 weeks with Drontal from 2 weeks to 12 weeks, than every 4 weeks till 6 months, than every 3 months for the life of our dogs, we will alternate every few doses once they are over 6 months with another wormer, just in case the worms become resistant to Drontal.

I read Billinghurst book, well slept through a lot of it, lol, but found Steve's information fantastic!

Hi Jeanne I am glad that was ok Holly

trying this, does this help, if you were to right click on the picture, save and then reload into your signature? Apologising if I am being rude

Hi Darien I just prefer to measure. My father in law fed his GSD by the bowlful and when we cared for her the 3 months away, she was over 40kg and only 2 year old, she was massive. So I threw the bowlful away along with the crappy cheap biscuit only he was feeding her and measured one cup of premium biscuit and 1/4 c mince, with whatever else the others had that night in the way of vegies. It took me nearly the 3 months to see a waist and feel the ribs. Her coat was much softer and nicer too. The in laws commented on how nice she looked asked what I did, so explained, but within the month, he was back to the old bowlfull of crap and she was fat again in no time. Not everyone measures, but I just find it suits me, as I am always adjusting diets when I have a problem PS you can stop the tin food whenever you like and you can feed cooked meat if you like, I did that, but not the chicken mince, as it has minced bone and when cooked it is like feeding your dog shredded glass, but I use to cook the red meat I fed, as well as everything else, these days I don't. Whatever works best for you and your dog is the best thing, I fell

Hi Greytmate the idea of sending the booklets out first is a great idea, I have done this on occassions, my only problems are that the puppies are not fully paid for until the buyer picks the puppy up or has the transport arragned, I have had buyers renig at the last moment, which leaves me short of booklets and also living out of town, has its own disadvantages and the times I am in town it can be difficult to get to a post office during working hours adn time constraints, but your idea is great and certainly worth thinking about in the future, thanks My booklets are in those A4 display folders, with seperate pages. They usually have page 1 of the two page diet sheet on the third page, following 5 generation pedigree and perhaps CCCQ reg if it has been finalised.If the owner wishes to, they can pull it out and stick to the fridge, I had never thought of that idea. The GSDCA puppy booklets are bound and not easily removed without damaging the book. I also do answer questions before the puppy leaves, give information if I pick up on something the owner is hesitant about and alwasy there to answer questions should they have problems, but I know that the puppy breath can drive you to destraction and sometimes the ears of the new puppy buyer are locked solid as they finally get to take home the puppy they have possibly waited months for. This thread has brought up some useful information, thank you Holly

Darien I am not the BARF expert, I am a novice and this is why I was reluctant to give you advice about your diet, but here it goes, hopefully others will correct where I am wrong? Do you measure everything so you know how much your girl is getting? Some, like my father in law, use the 'bowlfull' scale, which is difficult to calculate if the dog looses weight or puts it on and gets fat. I prefer either scales, most accurate, or cup measurents. I would cut out the tin dog food, that is not necessary with what you are feeding. tins are mostly water, unless you buy the top brands, eg: Hills, they also have fillers as number ingredient, gluten, to give that yummy jelly look and I don't know about your girl, but dogs will stink the place out with the gas tins produce. I would switch to feeding a tin of sardines a few times a week instead, tons more nutritiion. Tin food also, usually has about 9% protein, if soemone was feeding tin alone, this would hardly make for a complete meal for most dogs, I know yours is not, but thougth I would throw taht one in. the chicken source you use is excellent. Why do you cook the roo mince? there is no need to adn as long as we have good worming programmes, taht is worm with say Drontal (which also does the gastric bug, Giardia) every 12 weeks raw meat is fine. The vegies are fine but I would cut out the pasta, dogs guts are not naturally designed to digest wheat etc, so is not necessary for the dogs well being. I hope I helped a bit? Holly

Hi Jeanne I hear what you are saying and that is why everyone is giving a 8 page information booklet of things I have learnt, I break down the information, so it is easy to understand and just why it is recommended, as well as a GSDCA puppy booklet, again at least 10 pages full of information. Some people just do not appear to read the 'manufacturers instructions' And that is why I request everyone use a specific type of biscuit adn even go into how much and how to tell if they are getting too fat or too lean, but some do not listen. Keep it simple and easy, less room for error. I had one lady up north phone me when her puppy was 9 months old, that the puppy was listless. So I asked what she fed and what she was doing. She had switched the growing puppy over to Chum and had, in her wisdom, had her at 4months of age, rounding up the cattle, WTF! When I have taken the time to state the opposites, she is older and she knows better, all vet tests were inclusive. I do have a problem with recommending a lot of bone, as I have seen dogs come in during emergencies with perforated bowls, obstructions and the like, I am not going to be held responsible if their pet should die, on my recommendations. I do recommend bones a few times a week and what type of bones etc to avoid With commercial diets, premium ones, there is no need to add calcium either, as there ample supply already adn if feeding BARF that is why I prefer the minced chicken backs over red meat, it agrees better with GSD's adn also had all three essential ingredients, fat, protein, bone. You totally understand the mechanics of BARF and various vitamins and minerals, fed as supplements can do as far as damage or well being, but this does take time and research to understand, if a person fails to even read a puppy booklet, I dont' think that they would manage BARF books

You are right Anne, it is not the BARF it is the user. I have 4 of my 6 on BARF and they are all in good condition, it is a basic one too, no fuss and what I do like about BARF is, if I get a skin reaction with one ingredient (as was seen with my GSD that was suffering from a 'crusty nose') than it is easy to eliminate that ingredient or add something else. Commercial we are at the mercy of the honesty of the manufacturer. My two that on commercial still get turkey necks daily as well as the vegetable, my others get, as well as any leftovers from dinner. But this person, like so many novices, has gone half cocked into BARF without reading the basics for good health and maintance. He also was a bit shocked that he had to feed at least 500g of meat, 'that much' was his reply, whether because of cost or volume, I am not sure. I have other pressing issues here at home at the moment, VEHS, so didn't ask what made him change the diet from what I supplied (we recommended premium biscuit as well as some meat,bone,vegetables etc for variety and natural goodness to our puppy buyers, there is far less room for error on the diet and the dogs will not be starved or over supplemented) It was explained to him that a dog is not a cow (said it in the nicest possibly way surprised? ;) ) that they are not designed to munch on grass all day, if he is feeding vegetables, it should not make up the main ingredient and they need to be pulped or what i do is frozen and give them a short blast in the microwave, it may not be correct for others, but my line of thought is the microwave will help break down the fibrous tissue in the vegetables and allow for better obsorbtion. Dogs need fatty meat for calorie, calorie means energy, energy means whatever the dog does not use, will be stored as fat. I further explained the diet he had his dog on, is designed for a dog that is fat and needs to reduce calorie, because basically his dog is getting fillers and fibre which will help to stop him feeling hungry but not put on weight and the more fibre you feed, the more poos will be created, he needs more fatty meat in his diet. I suggested that the local supermarkets have chicken pieces available for around $5 for 2kg, forzenbuy them or mince, not the Leonards variety, as it is mostly bone, but minced chicken backs etc. With the chicken mince and pieces, there is the fat, meat and bone needed, he will not have to feed calcium on top of this. Skysdalimit, that is type of diet we give our puppy buyers too, for what one has in a short fall, the other will take up the slack, I also put into our contract, should they deviate from the diet, the hips and elbows will not be guaranteed, a bit more of an incentive to stick to the plan, sure some will lie about what they feed, but at least those honest folk will think twice BTW Anne, thank you for taking on a senior rescue, that is the sort of good news story I needed to hear at the moment.

I just want to share a phone call today. Get a phone call from a puppy buyer whose puppy is now 17 months saying they think there is something wrong with the pup, as it poos, big poos about 7 times a day and he can see the dogs ribs "ok, what's the diet you have your dog on"? "oh red meat, carrots, pasta, kelp, yeast, yogurt, omega oils, Thrive D, calcium" (this is not the diet I recommended) "why Thrive D, is there something wrong with your dogs digestive tract?" "no just have it handy" "how much food are you giving your dog?" "a BIG bowl full!" "are you feeding more meat than vegetable?" "no more vegestables than meat, vegies are good for you, you know" "how much meat are you giving your dog?" "oh about 17 cubes" "anything else?" "oh a cup of Science Diet" "what, Performance?" "no, senior, I think" So here is a novices diet, full of fibre, fillers, little protein and low in fat, at least i think so. I have asked him to go up to 500g of fatty chicken mince a bit of vegies, cut out all the additives, except the Omega Oils and if after 1 week, he is still on the lean side, than add another 1/4kg, keep observing, he may need to add or decrease as the weight goes up or down, at 3/4 kg chicken mince my boy, very active and only a few months older, gets fat on that quantity. I have asked for him to take a poo sample to the vet to check for worms, coccidia etc. This person is the very reason why I do not suggest BARF to most of puppy buyers, there is far too much roon for error in such a fast growing breed, but I maybe wrong? What do others think of the previous diet?

Bonnie has never agreed much with my dogs, within a week they have runny poos, Supercoat gives some hotspots, so my guess is this new Bonnie with the wheat product added as the number 1 ingredient will do the same using that crappy filler. I feed all of mine bar my boy and my baby BARF, the other two get Advance and not a hotspot to be seen. If Bonnie wants to cut costs they will do being do so to spite their faces, many will switch, once they read what is now in the bag.

thou low residue may sound dearer and if you can not find a natural diet to do the trick, than I weigh up the dearer food but less vet visits, drugs, discomfort and pain the animal maybe saved from in its life.

My dog/pup was on pure Eukanabu as per the breeders recommendations. I started to add chicken mince to his diet and the stone/rock eating stopped. I wouldn't recommend chicken mince for your dog at this stage but maybe 3/4 commercial biscuit to 1/4 mince, as Dr Hedburg recommends in our breed puppy booklets is worth a shot. Until your dog is over the bowel irrations, it would be wise not to feed bones, sticks, boots etc Thrive D can be good too Rebanne, as the body does not have to work so hard in digesting the food.