Reddii

Hi all, I searched so I hope this isn't doubling up. I LOVE reading about everyone successes in the trial ring and at home so please post away!! As for us - Last night was great. Xena got a first place in Intermediate agility with 1 fault (my bad as usual) and then a third, with a quali in her first outing in snooker. Mr CK had a blast all night and ran really well, except the usual weavers problem! He got second and a card in elementary jumping, but couldn't wait to get out for starters and ran faster than I've ever seen him go! Hopefully it is the start of good things to come for the puppies. Have a great year everyone. (It's nearly 25% over!)

I'm not sure that I am 100% on all these, but will take a stab at them....... Teaching the dog to follow your hand as you move, on both sides - Some people handle with their hand out and the dog follows the hand all the way around the course. You start training ti by having your dog 'touch' your hand and then progress to having them follow. I prefer to teach the dog that they take the obstacle in front of them unless they are told otherwise (with a hand signal - hand out - hold your line and continue to follow the line of my shoulders as I move, hand in/across chest - come to me.) hard to explain without video. Send aways to food or toys - be able to 'send' your dog from where you are standing and have it drive independent of you to a toy or food reward. Getting the dog to focus ahead and not on you - you don't want the dog totally focussed on you, you want it to focus on the next obstacle. If for example you have a quick dog it will constantly be turning around to see where you are - you need it to check in for commands, but to know that it needs to drive to the next obstacle. Shaping a touch and touching a target (useful for contacts) - Teach your dog to touch a target with it's nose. When they reach the end of a piece of contact equipment you cue the nose touch as the end behaviour. This way you guarantee they won't jump off the contact equipment. (Good theory - Laffi will tell you how well it works in the ring for my girl!) Start line stays - you want your dog to be able to stay in front of the first jump so that you can move out into the course and basically assume the best possible position to handle the first few obstacles instead of chasing a quick dog. Not as easy as it sounds if you have built up a lot of desire for the jump! Coming to the hand presented - not sure. Hope this helps. Cheers tony

I don't know anything other than GD's style/system so I can't really compare......But we were talking about this the other night. I think it's about working out how to present it to your dog so that they understand - it is consistent and when the handler gets it right and the dog understands what is being asked there can be no confusion. The system is AWESOME and for my girl is really easy. My boy is a bit lower drive, but with persistence and heaps of work we are getting there. Thing with him is he only ever does EXACTLY what I ask him to so the problem is either that I haven't taught him what I am asking for (sometimes forget which dog I have - they look too similar) or I am not asking him for the right thing. (Bloody video doesn't lie.) Stick with it I say!

Have a ball! I don't train at WAAG (I'm from Brisbane), but the members we see at comps are really great people and their dogs are fantastic. :D Will probably see you around before too long.

Where are you going to train? I'm out every week with one of my two at Southside. (One associate register, one main register.)

Hi, They go back on the 19th. I didn't every get to BDOC, but have just gone back to Southside after 18 months off. Might end up seeing you there. (Look out for the little BC with the faded pink tip on her tail.) cheers Tony

Sound like you have a potentially serious problem with this one. Is the problem only with your front yard/door or is it every time you let her off lead any where? If it is situational then it's not so hard to manage and/or fix, if it is across the board then I think you need to do some serious focus work with her before thinking about off lead exercises, otherwise you are simply reinforcing that she can bolt away. My girl is similar in one and only one situation - when I let her off lead out in our (unfenced) front yard. She knows there is a cat 4 doors up and will bolt straight there if given any opportunity. The last time she did it was about six months ago - simply because she has not had an opportunity to do it in the last six months. She trials in agility and is ready to go in the obedience ring and in any other situation has close to 100% recall so it's not really a problem because I won't trust either of my dogs in the front yard off lead any way. It just means that when Xena gets out of the car it has to be on lead where as CK can be trusted to run straight into the house. Hope that helps.

Sure can - you just have to be REALLY quick to make course time! :rolleyes:

:D I'll have the goofy looking BC who runs at a million miles an hour until he gets confused and then we pretty much stop! The other one will be going off her nut in the crate because she isn't getting a run!

ADCQ are holding a trial on Feb 07 for beginners only. the link to the entry is here........ http://www.adaa.com.au/schedules/adcq07feb09.htm The elementary events do not have weavers in them, the starters do, but run starters rules on the weavers. Hope to see you there.

I think anyone who is prepared to put in the time and effort to have a well trained animal has not taken the 'easy way' out. Sure, some methods are plain quicker with some animals becasue they respond differently to different techniques, but let's be honest none of it is 'easy' compared to the alternative of leaving the dog in the back yard and ignoring that it exists. I think anyone, regardless of what method they use should be congratulated on the result, as long as they are willing to see that when their next animal comes along that method a won't work so they have to be stronger or more positively focussed than with their last. I've come full circle from really harsh corrections to realising that with my current dogs a balance is needed. My girl needs more correction than my boy who is lucky he didn't have to endure that 'learning phase' I went through - it would have broken him, no question. The girl on the other hand benefitted from the experience with me and is now a better dog as a result.

I took an average and said after 12 months based on a sample of 2. My girl was 'grown up' at nine months and my boy is only just starting to mature now at 2. Although I don't think it matters how old or young the pup is the same learning principles apply - just adjust the volume according to the dog - at six months I was harder on my girl than I am on my boy at just over 2.

hmmmmm.........you would think so wouldn't you........ Sadly I've seen too many people (myself included) walk out of a ring (you name the sport) and almost ignore their dog because of a bad run or 'the dog made a mistake'. It has taken me a while to come to grips with the fact that regardless of what happens my dog has been a dog and I've failed in my endeavour. My dog has had fun even if it has knocked every bar on the course - s/he probably just can't understand why I'm not as happy as they are. We all sometimes need to remember to celebrate our dogs having fun, not just our own successes they have brought about.

After all the heavy threads in the section of late (I do like them) I thought I'd post one of our lighter training moments of recent times. We were at a jumping work shop the other week (Susan Salo jumping run by Cathy Slot - HIGHLY recommended BTW) and Xena was on the start line of one jumping grid when she got bitten by a March Fly. The poor little girl knows that you don't move your feet when you are on a start line so she decided to bend right around and chew at her rump without moving her front feet. Looked most odd and took a minute to work out what she was actually doing. I didn't know whether to laugh at her or cry for her or reward her for being such a good girl. Has anyone else caught their dogs being good like this lately?

When I first started all I wanted was a dog that I could 'control' - I had a DA/FA dog that was an absolute nightmare. (Just about had him sorted behaviourally when we made a difficult decision to PTS because of genetic issues.) Over time I went from training with aversives to realising that if I made it fun every time I interacted with the dogs and made every thing we do some sort of training then I don't need 'control' - a relationship develops and the dogs do what I want them to not because I want them to, but because they want to do it. In essence I became the leader and they are happy to work with me, not because they are afraid of a correction - as my girl was when we first started out. Simply - my training philosophy is to make it fun and the results will speak for themselves. This may be partly to do with the breed I have chosen to work with and partly because of their own personalities and I know that not all dogs can be trained this way, bit I've been lucky and this works for me at the moment. That said, there are some things that are non-negotiable, like recall and stay etc where the dogs are put back where they are meant to be, firmly, but not roughly. Whenever anything else goes wrong then it is simply something to laugh at and think about how I can do it better next time. Interestingly I'm yet to see a video of an agility run where my dogs actually make a mistake!! LOL Dogs are a great leveller and it all needs to be kept in perspective. I'm already planning my next dog (my current two are 2 and 2.5) and have a whole raft of things I want them to achieve. Even so if they are happy, healthy and I can take them out and have breakfast with them sitting at my feet then that's pretty much all I really can ask for. (Frisbee, Flyball, Agility and Obedience titles wouln't go astray either!)

Xena * Member of the Flyball Fanatics team that won Div 3 at the flyball nationals. (not bad for her second ever comp - not one mistake over the full 3 days!! A fantastic comeback - just 2 months before the trip she had a scuffle with another dog and wouldn't come out from behind the agility equipment that was in the corner of the training field for 20 minutes!) * Achieved her AAD agility title and has 3 qualies towards her SAAD agility title, plus one pairs card. Knows when I make a mistake and takes it upon herself to tell me all about it for the remainder of the course - whether we go clean or not! * Achieved her FDA frisbee title and has 1 quali towards the coveted FDE title. * Impressed all and sundry at obedience after an 18 month layoff and will start trialling early in 2009. CK VERY proud of my little man. After a VERY quiet 2007/early 2008 recovering fully from a cracked elbow he has discovered his border collieness and come storming back. It's amazing how quiet you can make a BC that is soft by nature and told every waking moment to calm down and how long it takes to build that drive back up. * Has one pass towards his BAAD agility title (and can now weave - WOO HOO!!! so there should be more to come) * Has one pairs quali card. * Achieved his FDA frisbee title and has 2 cards towards his FDE title. * Has joined the Flyball Fanatics Div 1 team and now consistently runs under 5 seconds in only his first year of competition. * Has amazed at obedience - he only ever did about 4 lessons and has come back after 18 months off to be promoted to trialling class after 2.5 lessons!! (must be something in all that agility stuff!) He too will be trialling in early 2009. ME..... Have learned the value of positive training and learned to laugh at myself and my dogs when I make a mistake. I have realised that dog sport is NOT serious, it is all about fun and the dogs. If they have a fun run and knock every bar down then I don't really care as long as they have enjoyed it and haven't hurt themselves - anything else is just a bonus to please me. I've also had my eyes opened to some different ways of doing things and look forward to exploring them more next year.

I've had a ball this year - have changed goals on the way through, but next year if the gods are kind: Xena will have her SAAD and maybe even MAAD titles in agility, her CCD and hopefully CD titles in obedience, plus crack the magic 400 point barrier in flyball. CK will have his AAD title in agility and CCD and CD titles, plus be just behind Xena in flyball. I'm not sure if we will compete in ANKC agility yet - there is already a lot on the plate. Oh, and both will have their FDE title in frisbee. What I really want though is for their ongoing good health to not change!!

I think it comes back to what is promised and how clear the communication is in the outset. When it comes to dogs some people are just plain unreasonable and expect someone else to fix their problem for them - hence they might want a guarantee. I think if it was explained to me from the outset that the trainer/behaviourist was there to work with my dog and me to provide the best possible outcome, but essentially it is up to me to do the work then that is fair enough. We are working with a living breathing animal - mental state etc comes in to play. You cannot guarantee a result sight unseen or otherwise. I think anyone who starts out a conversation aggressively is probably best off avoided any way. Cheers Tony

What is the difference? (I think I already know, but just to make it clear and for others that read) Leadership is what you provide to your dog so that they have the confidence to know that they don't have to make decisions for themselves. (Above and beyond the basics of survival like 'yes, I have to poo, yes, I have to breathe). They understand that you are the keeper of resources and that by obeying you or working withint the rules you define their life is better. They will question this, but it is up to you to be consistent and provide boundaries. Obedience is 'just' a dog sport or party tricks depending on how far you want to take it. I will be trialling in the new year so I am certainly not bagging any one involved, but still consider most of what we do past the simple sit/stay/down/heel to be fun in the same way flyball and agility are fun, but not much in the way of life skills. You don't necessarily need treats or anything else to teach it, in fact 'in the ring' you are not allowed treats. How do you know if your dog respects you as a leader? It lives within the rules you have set and enforce. How do you earn your dogs respect as a leader? You are consistent in the way you enforce the rules and control the resources in its life. When they understand that certain behaviour yields certain results (on your terms) the you are the leader. It was also said that the only dangerous dog is the one that makes up its own mind- How do you stop a dog from making up its own mind? Providing it with the confidence that it is best off letting you make the decisions. My boy was on the way to being F.A., but he now understands that I am the protector/leader of our pack and that if he is out of his comfort zone (OK, human term, but you get the picture), then he is to defer to me and all will be OK. He does not make the decision to protect himself - he will look to me and I will tell him close or 'it's OK' and he will act accordingly. My two cents.

I've been through an interesting time with this over the last 12 months with my BC who is now 2. I don't particularly subscribe to the idea that if you have your pack structure right you will have no problems with your dogs, however I think there is something in the whole trusting the leader thought process. I am a new dog owner - my dogs are 2 and 2.5 and they are my first dogs. I've made a lot of mistakes with my dogs, one of them was to let CK get roughed up in a dog park and have to defend himself. He is a physically strong dog, but quite a timid/soft dog. At the age of 4 months he had rolled an out of line Goldie on to it's back and told it off for jumping all over him (I was too slow and didn't see it coming.) - fair response from CK. Only problem is that this meant to him all dogs that got in his face were to be told off, no question. I've seen him pick up a doberman and tell it off (not a nice sight for any of us), same with a couple of other bigger dogs that got in his face. All of this happened without him 'checking in' with me - he made the decision. Since realising what was going on I've done a LOT of work to restore his confidence in other dogs and in me. Now he can tolerate other dogs approaching him and even being bouncy around him, if he feels he is out of his depth he comes to me before doing anything about it. I think we've just managed to avoid a fear aggressive dog and feel that strong and consistent 'leadership' has been the key - for me it comes back to the trust relationship we have built. I agree with LM - obedience is different to pack leadership, but also have to say it helps to reinforce the leader's status. (Both my dogs are just about at trial standard in obedience and do compete in agility and flyball.) Hope this contributes to what you were looking for. Cheers Tony

Our last brag for the year....... Saturday night our club ran it's last agility comp for the year. (What a night - 550 runs and I didn't get home until 2am!!) Anway goals for the night were just one card for Xena and for CK to get his weave poles right. Xena ran brilliantly - her first run of the night she had a clean run in intermediate jumping (not sure of the time), then in Open A jumping she went clear again (27 seconds with an SCT of 35). I almost sent her over a wrong jump, but corrected at the last minute and got a huge telling off! A lot of people were commenting about how quick she was which was really nice to hear. (No agility, only jumpers because it was a 'fun' comp and I don't think we wanted to be dragging the contacts out and away in the heat!) CK went better than I had hoped for. In his starters event he had just 2 faults - both because I was a bit late on a rear cross and he baulked at a jump. Weavers - perfect !! In his intermediate run (over 650mm instead of the 550 he jumps in starters) we got eliminated for his weavers (I won't go back and correct them), but he went OVER all the bars for the first time - not bad for a dog that doesn't have to duck to go under them! Both the puppies also got a games quali card so all in all it was a great night. Congratulations to everyone who has achieved their goals this year, you all inspire me with your stories! Have a great break from training and I hope you come back even stronger in 2009. Cheers Tony

We have a Gazebo, but don't tend to use the sides. If it rains we just put it right down to the lowest setting and wait it out. We've had it pegged down on some pretty windy days, but had no problems. (Then again we do live in Qld where it doesn't really get windy or cold.)

This is only a small one, but I'm pretty wrapped none the less. CK was promoted to level 4 at obedience on Monday night. (Trialling class.) We've only just gone back to obedience after 18 months doing other stuff and after 2.5 lessons (turned up late for the first one just wanting to make sure all was as it used to be and got told to get into the class! LOL). I just wanted to get him around 'strange' dogs while he is on lead to help build his confidence and all of a sudden we've been tagged as a potential triallist. Not bad for a dog that has done very limited obedience practice and NO formal obedience training for all that time. The only problem is while he might be ready I'm not!! So many bad habits to undo and things to relearn. At least I have my girl who has to do 4 weeks in level 3 before she is allowed into level 4. (Long story, she is actually better than he is!) Once we've done just a little more work on his SFE we should be trialling early next year!! I think I'm really lucky - one great obedience prospect (one that is good, but only does it grudgingly), one constantly improving agility dog (and one who loves it, but needs a bit more time to understand) and two great flyball dogs (both under 5 seconds) and two brilliant frisbee dogs (but I might be biased!) Now I just can't wait to get my next dog and start training when I actually know something instead of making a billion mistakes!!

I might be a little biased, but absolutely - you only have to watch some of them run their dogs and then take part in a class to see how well they impart information to know that.

Yep, this is our goal - titled in both disciplines. I don't think it is the dogs that stand in the way, just the time it takes to train both at a high level. But, to OP's point I've seen your concerns in my two to some extent. Xena is an agility nut - goes crazy in the back of the car (as crazy as she can while strapped in) and is coming along really well at that. She was 'classically' obedience trained at first and it took a while to get her working left and right, but now is fine with that. Interestingly her obedience (which has been neglected for about 18 months) has actually improved while it has been ignored. CK on the other hand loves to run, but isn't totally switched on to agility yet (it's an understanding thing I think), we've also just gone back to obedience with him and he is almost ready to trial 'out of the box' - just have to get him alright with strangers touching his backside! (I have the same issue so I can't really blame him. ) Point is it just takes time. I believe the dogs can discriminate between activities, it's just that there are some similarities so it takes a while for them to work out the subtle differences.