Reddii

smisch - Heidii, have you entered the ADCQ comp on the 16th and 17th of May? We'll see you there on the Saturday if you have. (flyball on Sunday).

VERY COOL!! Will we be seeing you (even for a look see) at the Million Paws Walk day at UQ. Flyball Fanatics are running a flyball comp which is always heaps of fun with so many people watching. I'll be there with two black and white BC nutbags. They'll be the only ones in the ring running under 5 seconds, but NOT barking!! :D

This is the one - not the one I was originally thinking of, but it shows the manouvre twice (without a tunnel). It doesn't really matter if it is a tunnel or another obstacle though, the theory is the same. The best place to see it is where she comes out of the tunnel and has to be called off the jump and then into the next tunnel, but it is also the same thing where she goes from the green jump and then in between the two jumps and over the red jump. I actually got it right! Hope that helps!

The threadle and the serp are slightly different in terms of body position as well. Threadle your feet should be pointing back towards the dog and you are positioned prior to the obstacle, whereas with the serp you are postioned on the far upright of a jump (for example) looking back to your dog, but with your feet pointing in the direction of travel. It sounds to me like your puppies may not understand what you are asking for if they are stopping. Have you proofed the manouvre on jumps before moving to the tunnel? The best way to look at this is to think about the two entrances to the tunnel as jumps and then see if that makes a difference. Hope I've made sense. I've got a video somewhere of me getting this totally wrong, but it kind of gives you the idea of how it should be done. I'll see if I can dig it out. Cheers Tony

oops......what would I know. I'm only a mere male....... That one should have been starters and I've been too lazy to fix it! Tony

Hi all, I posted in the brags thread about how CK has suddenly come alive after the trial last weekend. In the ring the transformation was quite amazing, but out of the ring at home it is not a lot different. In the space of a week we've gone from a dog that is docile and quiet, but slowly developing more drive to a dog that is quite drivey. He's not OTT or any more than about 80% of Xena's PITA antics, but he is a LOT more playful and is pushing me to play where previously he had to be encouraged to play. In his training he is also driving really well to toys where in the past that held little interest for him. I'm over the moon and just hope we can build on this, but was wondering if anyone else had seen an overnight (OK, overweek) change in their dog and what they thought the trigger might have been. Cheers Tony

Thanks LP. VERY proud of them - especially as they are my first puppies. (Would never have two young dogs at the same time again though!) When I look back at Missy's first run it is amazing how far she has come - even more amazing when I think back to how harshly I trained her before I knew there is a different way! For some dogs a firm hand is necessary, for these guys not so much.

Hi, We've recently relocated our agility club to the same grounds and a couple of the urban guys come to our classes. They are pretty good people as well as having a good understanding of the dogs they work with. I've been down and watched a couple of their sessions. They are pretty well controlled - not free for alls and they seperate 16weeks and older from the younger dogs. 8 - 16 weeks is much open to anyone and then the 16 weeks and over play time is only open to clients with trusted dogs. Best thing I can suggest is go an have a look on a Sunday afternoon. I haven't seen one of their formal classes, but they seem pretty good with their own dogs and I've heard good things from (non-doggy nut) friends who have done basic lessons with them. Hope that helps. Tony

Will probably see you at an ANKC trial before too long.

LOL thanks. He's only slow when he's not 100% sure of what he is doing. (think 4.5 second flyball dog!!) I can't wait until he decides he really understands agility - it should be a fun ride!!

Wll done everyone. Well......last week I was about to retire Mr CK from agility - he just HATED it. We were away and on a very sandy field, but I couldn't put him through it again he was so sad. What a difference a week makes........ The card isn't worth anything because we need agility, not jumpers, but still nice to get him around clear. I'm not sure whether I was happier with this or the run where he decided he needed to go over the a-frame 3 times of his own accord, all the while looking at me as if to say, 'get with it, I get treats for doing this you know. Either way he was happy all day and couldn't wait to get out of his crate for his next run. We just might make an agility dog out of him yet!

Or you could come and play at ADAA trials - all dogs are welcome.

Each to their own but IMO a properly used prong and e-collar aren't harsh methods ;) No, maybe not. But unless I'm mistaken you also can't use them at most training clubs - especially if you want to get into agility. I know my boy would fall apart with corrections from a prong or shock collar - for him a raised voice is a harsh correction. Each to their own, but IMO BC's don't tend to need physical correction - harsh or otherwise.

Without seeing your dog it is hard to answer all the questions. It's about finding out what is going to turn your dog on more than chasing cars. Some dogs are food focussed, some are toy/prey focussed, some respond better to correction methods. (comments about prongs stand) You need to find someone to work with to help you work out what your dog needs and be consistent with that.

I haven't worked on distraction, i dont have enough time before work in the morning. I really hope you are joking. You've taken on a working breed - you need to MAKE TIME if your dog is going to be anything other than a PITA or a back yard ornament. I know this sounds harsh, but if your boy is anything like my girl he is going to need a LOT of work to keep him sane and make him a reasonable canine citizen. From what you have said your dog is not ready to start agility - you need to start by getting your little man to focus on you and not everything else around him. A really good flyball trainer once said to me - 'You have to be Ronald McDonald to your dog'. He meant that you have to be the centre of their world, the most exciting thing in their life. At the moment you are not. PLAY with him, but make him earn the play, don't just start the game, eg: ask him to sit before you let him play. Start slowly and build up the time you ask him to work before he gets his reward. My two dogs now run to where the toys are every time I set foot into the back yard. When I pick up a toy they run to where we train and wait. You won't be allowed to use your prong collar at an agility club so best to get rid of it now if you want to start in dog sports. (No, I'm not prong collar bashing, I've never used one, but that is because I'm not allowed to use one where I train.) Your dog is a clever dog and you need to use this to your advantage or he will do exactly what he wants when he wants to do it - you can't have a prong collar on him all the time (or any of the time at agility). Again, before you start at agility you need to get his 'attacking' other dogs under control. If you are not confident in doing this then get some help. If he attacks another dog at training it is likely that he will be asked to not come back - the best way to make sure this doesn't happen is to get him so focussed on you he doesn't see other dogs. All this said I agree with the other posters - you need to teach your dog some manners and then start to think about what you want to do with him activity wise. This is all going to take time - he is not too young to learn, start now. I don't want him to be easier to handle, I want to be a better owner. I'm not planning to breed him, but I don't want to get him fixed "just because". Don't get him fixed 'just because'. Read what is out there and make an informed decision - hunt down real informed literature, not opinionated crap. Some people say desex and it makes the dog easier to manage, some suggest there are health risks associated with desexing, and others will say there are more associated with not desexing. Ultimately you need to find a vet you trust talk to them and make your own decision about what is best for you and your dog. If you choose not to desex you have to be prepared to manage your dog accordingly. Cars You really need to solve this problem. Best way to do this is to think about how to keep him focussed on you or at least 'with' you so that he knows he has to do what you ask when you ask it. My boy had a similar fetish. We ended up making him sit every time a car came towards us (and we live inner city so there were plenty). When he sat and looked at me (you are using TOT so that shouldn't be a problem) he got a treat. Now cars are not an issue - same with other dogs - I'm more exciting. I really think you need to seek out someone with a bit more experience with working dogs (or even just dogs in general) and look to them for advice.

I think to sum up the discussion - 'working your dog' refers to pretty much any activity that involves training and requires structured or measured responses. This might or might not involve paid 'work'. A 'working dog' on the other hand is a dog that is used by its owner to in the process of deriving a living. The understanding of what that meant varied. eg: Some consider greyhounds to be working dogs, some not so much.

Great 'work' everyone!! We are because flyball has been cancelled tomorrow. At least we get to drink red wine tonight and play frisbee tomorrow! JulesP - really envy you. We haven't played with sheep in a long time . Maybe my next puppy......

Yep, that would have been the one. Mr CK has come quite a way since then. We'd only had him doing full runs for about 1 week and a half so it was a bit of a lottery. Twiggy ran really well all comp from memory!

Very cool - isn't it great when they start to 'get it'. CK is a beautiful boy to live with, but so quick once he is turned on. The funniest thing ever with him was a break proceedings at a flyball comp when the timing gear broke. EVERY other dog was going off their nut, CK was lying on his back begging pats. When the timing gear was fixed he kind of rolled over, looked at me as if to say 'really?', got up, ran 4.8 seconds (first time under 5 secs), came back and lay at my feet for more pats.

This is my funny boy running at his first comp in February last year. And him as start dog later in the year. He's running consitently under 5 seconds these days. My girl has been running in comps since she was 18 months old and has made a total of 1 mistake in the ring in all that time!! She is truly a flyball nutter. This is her as start dog. She has run under 5 seconds a couple of times, but isn't quite as quick as some of the others.

We had a two day trial over the weekend. Both puppies did very well with one card each and a couple of wins when they ran with a fault. This was my favourite run of the weekend with just one bar dropped and one small mistake from me (I rear crossed the tunnel and Xena did the right thing - I was just lucky she didn't refuse the next jump.) CK got eliminated in starters when I pulled him back from the tunnel after he had put his nose into it - he missed the last weaver, but aside from that I was wrapped to see him running so hard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xhK3LFE0yQ Just a shame he missed the dog walk in this one - it would have meant out BAAD title on the weekend, but it wasn't to be. Unfortunately we missed videoing his clear run, but it was AWESOME and he was still jumping up trying to eat his toy at the end of day 2. 3 months ago he would have been in his crate refusing to do anything but walk beside me. I can't not put up Xena's clear run. (See her tell me off for being late on the first front cross...... ) This was an exceptional run, not because of what happened on the course, but because 5 minutes earlier we had been standing on the start line and it started to bucket down and blow like you wouldn't believe, I was about to start and the jumps were blowing over so the judge called it off. Xena told me off again for taking her off the start line without running - very funny little girl. I was really pleased she stayed 'up' for her run when a lot of dogs would have just switched off. It was a big two days with 8 runs each, but heaps of fun. Still didn't stop them wanting to play when we got home last night!

This has been an interesting topic. My girl has drive to burn, despite doing some of the most awful things to her in the name of 'training' early on she has never shut down and now will literally run herself into the ground if she is allowed. We don't really work improving on her drive. My boy is a much softer dog to begin with, but does have quite a high prey drive. Only thing is we spent the first 15 months of his life telling him no and slowing him down after he broke his elbow and took what seemed like forever to recover. Now (at 2.5 years) we are still building his confidence back - he still needs to be 100% sure that he isn't going to get in trouble for getting excited. Basically everything in his life is a game and he has to work for every thing he gets. His confidence is increasing by the week at the moment and he's bouncing all over the shop every time he comes out of his crate at training. There are no toys left in the yard during the day and all reinforcement comes from me. (or OH at flyball) Any interaction between us has to be exciting and fast paced (yes, tiring , but very rewarding). It's only been in the last 3 months that he's REALLY started to come alive. Another 6 or 12 months and I have a feeling I'll be wishing I hadn't done so much work with him, but to quote a well known agility instructor 'you get the dog you need'.

I consider work as the dog doing what it was originally bred to do, everything else is a sport. I do flyball, agility and obedience mainly but I've never considered it a sign of their workability. Put a bird in front of them, fire a gun and then I would say I was working them.....until then What Tollersowned said . Going to Flyball is just a game for my dogs, not going to work. ETA: I dont think Obedience is 'working' a dog. Working to me is working on a farm, in the Police force, AQIS dogs etc. I've been following, but haven't had the time to answer. These quotes sum up my thoughts. From a HUMAN perspective nothing I do with my dogs is work. They are not 'working' dogs (but do fall within the ANKC Group 5 definition). A working dog is a dog that it's owner involves in making their income. Now, from my dog's perspectives....... CK does not work with or for me, everything is play or he sleeps. (Yes, he 'works well' at agility, but in the same way I can 'work well' on the squash court - it is for fun.) The only time he is working is when he decides (or I tell him) the cat has ventured too far outside or when he is guarding us against evil possums or other intruders. I think he might have decided sheep were work as well, but we didn't stick at herding for long enough. (One day we will live away from the inner city.) EVERYTHING Xena does is work - she is a very serious dog and in her mind it doesn't matter whether she is doing obedience, herding, playing flyball, doing agility or chasing a tennis ball in the park she is working with an amazing intensity.

from Mr CK to his little brother. CK is a Trumagik boy, but looks so much like his dad from a couple of angles it's amazing. Great to hear Rory is going well in the show ring - CK doesn't have what it takes to be a show boy any more! This is the boy in action.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtH72G8tuU&feature=channel_page Congrats on Kirra's title as well.

Well done everyone, now doesn't that feel better getting it out of the system. Ness, I can't wait to start hearing about CK's second cousin - Kenzie! (Well, kind of, his sire is a Winpara dog - Tag.) Keep up the good work everyone!