Reddii

Thanks Nicole. My guy didn't have surgery - was right on the borderline of needing it or not. Seems to be taking a long time, but I guess that could be because he's a bit heavier and has grown very quickly.(now 20kg at 9 months.) Oh well, all will become clearer before too long.

Just wondering if any one else has had experience with this and can comment. About 20 weeks ago CK (4 month BC at the time) started to limp on his right side. 2 weeks of treatment and it came good - all muscle damage. Then immediately he began limping on his left. He cannot have injured it in the 2 weeks because he was confined and only allowed to walk about on lead. We assumed his right was hurt worse than his left and it was a similar thing from the same incident. After another 2 weeks of treatment it was not right still and I asked the Vet to xray. Sure enough it was a broken elbow - just the very tip where the tendon attaches. So we kept him confined and on lead only for another 6 weeks or so and then x-rayed again - the break has healed perfectly and the elbow is fine. Problem is another six weeks down the track he is still getting sore. Not from being in his large run or from walking (up to an hour), but when we let him have a run around for say 1/2 an hour (inc chasing balls which means hard stops) or run up and down steep hills for a shorter time he pulls up sore. Not during exercise, but once he cools down. He's fine again the following morning or afternoon if it is in the morning he gets the run. Also it is slowly improving - not as bad and he can exercise for longer periods, but it is still worrying. Based on this I'm guessing his muscles are still recovering - he's nice and straight and there is no obvious assymetry except for when he's cold as I mentinoed. He's going to the vet on Saturday week, but I'm wondering if anyone else has any experience with a similar injury and how long it can take? Cheers. Tony

Not sure about that, I love it and am really in to it and have spoken with the head trainer about trialling so perhaps I've set myself up for it. I'm lucky that I have two fantastic dogs who can make me look good - maybe I'm lazy as a result? not sure. Whatever the case I'm getting a real buzz from watching a new light bulb click on in each of their head's every couple of weeks. Another great night last night - not a noise from the boy in the car - not sure where that came from, but we'll take it and run. Also Xena is going really well in the flyball class - doing the full run every time w/o the ball. Next week we add the ball which should only increase how much fun she is having - she is TOTALLY ball obsessed and at present is about 50% quicker back to me than she is to the box. Once the ball is added we are hoping she rockets to the box as well - that's how it works with a retrieval without the box any way! I can't believe how excited she gets when we get to flyball. She got out of the car last night and ran to the jumps, then back to me looking for/at the tuggie, then onto the box and back again. When we finally did get started it was like she had found her heaven. Have a good weekend everyone.

I'm lucky in that regard, I can leave either of them alone, it's only when they are aware the other one is having fun or in the case of Xena she knows I am somewhere there and potentially having fun with CK that there is a problem. I can do obedience practice in the yard with either of them and leave the other nearby in their run and the other will be quiet and Xena (14 months) will let me do pretty much anything with CK - as long as she can see, but when Xena comes out to practice her agility stuff and the tugg toy makes an appearance all hell breaks loose! Tonight is flyball night and Mr 9 months who is still too young comes along first of all to meet and greet the other dogs (encouraged by others who love him and have been watching his progress) and to give him a bit of a run before training - we do some healing exercises and a few other fun things. Miss 14 months (the banned one) then comes out of the car/crate and he goes back in. Last week he was better - barked for 40 minutes of the hour, down from 45! Hoping this week for another small improvement.

It's not that I'm not getting results - both my dogs are improving week by week, it was just a comment on styles and personalities. Never had experience with horsey ones so I can't comment. On a VERY positive note last night I had an awesome trainer take the class at agility. My 14 month BC is too quick for my handling skill - so quick that everyone comments on it - even those with other BC's they consider quick. As a result I tend to confuse her a bit as we move into more advanced (as opposed to advanced) skills. Instead of telling me I was confusing the dog and needed to get it together this person was great, she turned all my mistakes around and worked with me and Xena to improve what we were doing as a team. Another thing I should have mentioned - most trainers seem to be a bit harsher until they realise how little experience I have, but how much effort is going in to it. After that they really are helpful - just interesting how different personalities achieve different goals. Poodle Wrangler - I thought you were talking about me for a minute when you mentioned the couple with 2 dogs! We've banned our little girl from obedience for exactly that carry on. For a start she hates it even when she is with me (focussed on me, not our younger dog), but when she is with OH she is impossible. Won't even get out of class one, despite having the ability to do level 4 with me - go figure. (last night at agility she held her stay for 10 minutes while we packed up the equipment, even with other dogs running about and me out of sight so it's not like she is out of control, she just doesn't have the same spark as when we are doing fast paced stuff.) The last straw was the night she escaped from OH during an on lead class and came looking for me. You know that horrible feeling you get for the person who's dog has broken a stay and is streaking across the field, well that quickly turned to when I realised who's dog it was - good thing was that she came straight away and sat at my feet looking up as if to say - was I good, did I do good . Suffice to say OH came clean and said her heart wasn't really in it so now I just take the dogs their seperate ways for training. Can be very embarassing and annoying depending on where you are in the situation.

I agree, if you do something intuitively it is unlikely you have a deep understanding of every step of the process. I know with a couple of things I sub-consciously or otherwise take 'short-cuts' (not necessarily a bad thing), but if you really have to work to get to a level of competency it is more likely you have done it step by step and understand each step of the way and makes it easier to explain. Classic example - I find it really hard to have a younger (under 25 y.o.) person explain technology to me because they have grown up with it and it is second nature. An older (not old!) person say, 40+ who has not grown up up with it, but understands it stands a much better chance of getting through to someone working from a low base of knowledge.

That's exactly my point in my post. It's like anything - just because you are good at something doesn't mean you can teach it. Great to see you've put some time, thought and effort into this one!

Spot on - that's exactly what happened to me!! Started with a commericial training school just wanting to sort out a few behavioural issues in a pup who's life was cut way too short by health issues (bloody puppy farmers!) and have ended up a member of 4 different clubs with two other doggies. (No, don't have a life with 4 different events to go to some weeks.) It's still about fun, but we have one eye on trialling in the next 12 months or so and will definitely be racing in flyball before too long. (older dog doesn't like obedience so don't see the point in going past where she is now when she is so much better and enjoys faster sports more - younger dog is really enjoying obedience and shows promise.)

Interesting comments - particularly from those of you who are trainers. Please don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything other than what I get and it would be frustrating to see owners and dogs with potential come and go. overall I have nothing but admiration for the people who have taught me so much and have helped me mould two fantastic BC's who have more potential than their handler! My comments were more that it is interesting how we all (I find myself doing it with people I work with) are so 'on to it' in terms of how we communicate with our dogs, yet when we are training people it is a totally different m.o. For the record - we do the work - at least 10 minutes with each dog every day specifically on what we are working on that week then on our walks we do stays etc in safe places just to reinforce the training with distraction. The young man also gets to walk around the flyball and agility fields when he comes along to our girl's lessons for a loot at what he is in for. I guess it was a bit harsh to suggest the instructor should have picked up the hand signal I used, but the comments I've received have been a bit over the top from time to time. I'm just feeling a bit down after a challenging night with my 9 month old BC boy last night at obedience - he was good this morning, but my ego is still a bit bruised. (How's that for honesty!) Let's hope tomorrow night is a bit better with my little girl at agility. ETA: Compared to many I have two dream dogs who at 9 & 14 months are fantastic. Xena (14 months) is almost doing full runs at flyball and is going well at agility - about to move from beginners into novice. CK at 9 months is still very much a puppy and easily distracted, but is in level 3 at obedience and enjoys it more every time we go - all thanks to some fantastic trainers I have met along the way!

I'm pretty new to this whole doggy thing having only been involved for almost 12 months. It's only really in the last 3 or 4 months that I've become involved in clubs (flyball, obedience and agility) and I've met some great people and learned a LOT. Before I get people jump on me for what I am about to say I need to make it clear that I really appreciate people who give up their own time to train others to train their dogs and without them my dog experience and my dogs' experience would be about 10% of what it is now. That said, does anyone else wonder why we spend so much time working on how we train our dogs, making sure it is a fun experience for them, as little negativity as possible etc etc only to have trainers work quite differently with the handlers. EG: "Well obviously you haven't done as much work as you should have" - actually yes, I have, my dog is perfect in situation a, but doesn't translate it from that to situation b and I don't know how to help her......... NO, you need to give an instruction, not just jerk on the lead.......actually you missed my hand signal, the dog got it and did actually sit....... There have been others and none of it really bothers me because I work in an environment that hardens me to pretty much anything/anyone. That said I am still sensitive to criticism and it makes we work all that much harder because I hate to fail, but I was wondering last night on the way home, how many people do well meaning volunteers drive away with training techniques they wouldn't dream of using on their dogs? Anyone else thought/felt this way after a bad night at training?

Hi Tracie, How do you handle this - I'm thinking I'll end up this way before too long, as it stands I'll have two in class three shortly any way. Cheers. Tony

We had our girl trained to stay on the deck out the back which is almost as good as inside, but when no 2 came along they decided that playing outiside was far better than sleeping so, we decided to crate train. CK was about 16 weeks at this point and was not TT to any great extent. For the first while it was about once a night (big ask for a 16week pup to hold all night when not trained), but now at 8 months he sleeps inside in his crate and never wakes us (having said that he will tonight for sure!) BIG vote for crate training! The whole process from deciding to train to getting them to a point where they could be in the crates w/o making too much noise only took about 1.5 weeks and a bit of patience! Oh yeah - this was all part of the process of moving them inside as well. Hope this helps Tony R

Hi Joanne, I'm pretty sure others will have something to say and as Erny said a professional trainer is always the best way to go with a problem you can't sort. That said, I have similar issues with my 2 BC's who are currently sorting through their hierachy issues and constantly try to one up each other on our walks. I'm using two techniques to combat this and it is slowly working. Basically I'm treating it exactly the same as I do with one dog - pull on the lead and you either get to stop and sit or you get to turn around and go back the other way - very boring because you've already been there. Walk where you should be walking and you get a treat, trick is you both have to be there to get the treat. Not sure what the pros have to say on this one, but it's working for us. Cheers Tony R

Hey Kit Kat, Keep an eye out for us. CK is our 8 month old BC he's just moved into level 3 and Xena is our little girl (13 month BC) who has been banned (by me) for crying too much when OH was trying to work with her. Have to sort out which class she should be in now that she will be working with me. She is way better than CK, but I'm not sure I'm ready for any more! ;) Cheers. Reddii (Tony R)

CK (BC) at six months was about 16kg and could not/would not hold all night. At 8 months he's about 18kg and is fine through the night now. Hope that helps.

I've just joined our obedience club and they use a combination of positioning the dog and positive reinforcement. I've used purely positive methods where you are not allowed to correct the dog and hard core military styled check chain methods (didn't like that), but this is somewhere in the middle and suits me just fine. Both my dogs are pretty 'soft' so they respond well to the majority of our interaction being positive, but know that when they are in trouble they are not going to get a physical correction because a verbal one is enough. It's funny though - at the positive reinforcement classes no one ever passed another comment about me correcting my dog after he was solid on a stay with distractions at five months! Must have been a good night because he isn't always that way now at 7 months!

I've just started at Southside Dog Obedience Club and they seem pretty good. They train on Monday nights at the football fields just behind the runcorn train station. Contact details: Contact: 0405 325 766 or [email protected]. They have an intake once a month. I'm pretty sure they will have the 'seminar' on Friday this week for new starts on Monday next week. Cheers. Tony

Thanks BC. I'm working towards something along these lines - I think I'll start crating in the car instead of just near the venue - that way they know the rules in the car already. Cheers.

Sorry to hijack..... Vickie, do you think this will work with my BC - the first 5 or six times we took her out with a frisbee she LOVED it. Now she can run 20 to 30m and will get in a position to catch, but will just 'head' it, turn around and run back to me. First time I throw it she will catch and return, but after that it is as per last sentence. She is tennis ball mad and returns to me quicker than she gets to the ball - very strange. Tony

As some of you will know I have one very jealous dog and another who is beginning to copy her. We've sorted the problem with OH and me handling the dogs - she's just not going to do it. As a rule she is able to come to agility/flyball/obedience and take the dog I'm not handling or sit with them while they are in the crate to make sure they are quiet(ish). On Thursday night I took Xena to flyball but OH is away and I had to crate CK. I locked him away safe and sound with two kongs in the shed where we train and there was no real problem until we started to train and he could hear me with Xena. He barked for an hour straight!!! Not really a problem other than I would rather have them nice and calm instead of stressed in the crate. So....today I've started getting them used to being in their crate alone while I've got the other one - just for 5 min or so at a time for the minute and I'll extend the period they are crated as they learn that quiet means BIG praise when I get back with their mate. That's my theory for the minute. Anyone have any comments or other ideas? Cheers. Tony

We have two pups - a 13 month BC and a 7 month BC. both high drive, both nutters. At the moment it is a bit of a PITA because we have to keep them seperated as he has an injury - associated barking throught the fence at one another because they can't play etc. When they can play together it is brilliant - they keep each other company and really get along well. The young dog models off the slightly older dog who was just on nine months when we got the new one. I know a lot of people say don't train side by side, but I broke the rule and still do it from time to time. I think it is important that they know that instead of competing with each other they need to listen to me when they are together. As a result the young man is solid on a stay at seven months (bit hard to move when you are on a split lead and the other dog won't move! ) seriously though he is good even on his own. Downsides - Costs x 2 Training (time) x 2- even though they will work OK side by side they have to do a lot of individual training, hence double the time. Jealousy (human emotion, but describes it well enough) - Miss nine months squeels the house down if she can see me training with the other one and can't get to us. Mr 7 months has begun to copy this - last night at flyball he barked almost non-stop for an hour in his crate while we trained. Yes - they are crate trained, as soon as training was over and he couldn't hear me any more he stopped. I wouldn't be without my two, but that said I can't wait until he is another few months older, desexed and we've built up a bit more trust. As others have said though, you have to do it for you, not for the other dog. If you end up resenting the new dog it won't be good for anyone. Cheers. Tony

Hi, I know you mentioned that your dog only has one toy they like, but does s/he like to play 'tug'. My girl is really ball motivated and we've had to work hard at getting her to tug, but now she LOVES it, to the point where she is quicker back to me than she is to the ball. She still hasn't done a full run as she's only young, but the tug thing has worked really well. Hope that helps. Tony

Thanks again to all for your replies. OH and I had a very honest chat this morning after last night's training or lack of - Xena topped her previous efforts with a supreme She isn't really interested in having anything more than a dog who will come and sit when she asks. ie: her heart isn't really in formal classes or trialling ever. So, to ease the pain on all involved and continue the progress of both our dogs I'll continue to take CK and get him through the level 2 class. At this point I'll be able to start taking Xena to level 2 and CK to level 3 as they are at different times. Once they are both level 3 (which should be fairly quick once CK gets there and she is back at training as I'm pretty confident Xena could cope with that now) I'll just have to take them week and week about, unless the club is happy for them to go halves in a lesson. I'm not really a fan of that, but we'll have to work out what is best. So for now poor Xena will only get flyball and agility, plus frisbee once a month or so on the weekends!! I still really hate it when I don't get my own way, but that's what I love about dogs - they teach you humility and patience. Cheers. Tony

That would be ideal and if we could do it then there would be no problem - Xena will work for OH when I'm not there. Problem is that I take our other pup who is the one who we really want at obedience at this stage as Xena is getting two other nights training at agility and flyball. CK is quite a strong willed boy, physically strong and quite exciteable because of the isolation he's had during the previous month or so which is why I have him. (he's the boy going to see Rowan K atm.) OH isn't strong enough or confident enough with him - Xena is quite submissive and is easy to handle, except for the whining. Seems there is not an easy answer to this one - I'll have a chat to the club trainers and see what they suggest - will update on Tuesday. Thanks everyone for taking the time to have a look at this.

mmmm......thanks Ness, not what I wanted to hear, but what I kind of suspected might be the case. Looks like we have some decisions to make. Cheers. Tony