Cavandra

ADVANTAGE is between $37 & $41 for SIX months supply ADVANTIX is between $41 & $48 for SIX months supply ADVOCATE is Between $60 & $72 for SIX months supply Priceless Pets is teh best place to buy these, the prices that have been quoted on ths thread are outrageous! http://www.pricelesspets.com.au/products.php3?page=prod Another place to buy other products like wormers etc The Vet Shed http://www.thevetshed.com/catalog/

I'm not actually in need of any. I didn't know there was a difference. What is the brand the vets sell? I wonder what the difference in ingredients is. The Exelpet ones at supermarkets are different (I dont know why they are able to have the same name?) They are in a red packet, and the ones that Vets sell are in a pale blue packet. Supermarket ones used to be around $11 & the Vet ones $20 in my area for the same size. Coles/Bilo used to have them, but havent had any for over 12 months. The same goes for the local pet shop here, they no longer deal with the exelpet ones for some reason.

The vet Shed online store has them http://www.thevetshed.com/catalog/advanced...imageField2.y=8

poodlefan i dont find it at all insensitive to offer advise & information. There are people who are offering conventional advise about drug therapy to control the siezures. I am offering another, which is advising the debate about vaccine damage to this member. WHY? because one of the said side effects of vaccinosis is ENCEPHALITIS (brain inflamation) which causes seizures..... if this is the case with this dog it can be cured, but many GP Vets dont know this etc, it is up to the member who has asked for advice what she decides to do, I have stated i would be having the dog detoxed & seeing a Holistic vet that is my 2 cents worth.

lillysmum, Firstly here is a link to a horse site http://www.naturalhorsetalk.com/recentshows.html You will find a podcast interview with Dr Bob Rogers, he discusses the damage vaccines cause our dogs & cats, and explains how he is instrumental in suing the drug companies for insisting on annual vaccines when there is NO EVIDENCE that they are necessary etc etc etc.........It is worth listening too. I have provided links to various websites in my first reply. Dr Jean Dodds is a leading vaccination expert , and for years has been warning that annual vaccinations in fact our entire protocol is wrong, and either causes zero immunity when given at the wrong ages & dangerous if over done. I know many many breeders/exhibitors who havent vaccinated since the age of 12 months, and have done this for up to 14 years , and have been exposed to dreaded diseases at shows etc and have NOT contracted the disease, yet annually vaccinated dogs did catch it, because the more you vaccinate the less immunity the dog has, they start to counteract each other, in the same way that vaccinating a baby pup at 6 weeks of age will not work if it has not been weaned for 2 weeks off its mother. the mothers milk immunity & the shot will counteract each other, and a Titre will show zero immunity. I have had dogs vaccinated at 6, 12 & 16 weeks & the titers show zero immunity.......meanwhile the dog has been going to training, agility & whatnot & potentially being exposed to things unknown to the owner that it is not covered, all because of doing the pup at 6 weeks of age, which I must say breeders have been doing on the advise of their Vets for decades......the reason so many pups get parvo even though vaccinated! to my knowledge there are no experts in the field in this Country, and no studies being undertaken here either! (why would they want to dissrupt such a major income to Vets) The same as there are no studies that prove annual vaccinations are necessary and safe!!! It is all about the drug companies lining their pockets. I guess if we went about vaccinating ourselves annually with Tetnus or something we should feel the effects that our dogs endure ie compromised immune system, build up of toxins especially in the joints, encephalitis, aggression & various other brain dysfunctions etc........... There is no reason to do it annually, and if you are too nervous about it, then Titer tests are available whereby you can see your dogs levels of vaccine in their system......If everyone did this, then the results would speak for themselves. Also there is another problem with vaccines in that there are many dogs that get no immunity from them whatsoever, so no matter how many times you jab them they will never be immune.........Titers can show these dogs also! As far as the heartworm shot goes, I have provided the link to a letter by the manufacturer explaining that it is NOT to be given routinely, only to be used when all other means of heartworm methods cant be used ie a little old lady who cant give a tablet etc..........They plainly state the product had too many adverse reactions.......now these are KNOWN reactions, what about all the unknown ones??? The dogs that die within a week of having it & Vet or owner presume everything else except the heartworm shot as the cause! Australians do not link the adverse reactions to the shots, as they are not usually instantaneous reactions. I do know of pups that have started to have fits 1 month after being given the Proheart 12 injection at the age of 6 months........despite it not being recomended to be given to pups! I have also stated that our Proheart 12 is THREE times the strength of the Proheart 6 that was recalled oversease years ago. It is finally sinking in in this Country that Vaccines are the cause of most problems, and yes many dogs have them annually or more without a drama, but many also dont......Many Vets agree but their hands are tied, as they must follow orders for insurance purposes....how frustrating that must be!!! A friend with her lovely healthy dog that has been annually vaccinated with C5 all her life has got an inoperable form of cancer suddenly. She has taken her to a Holistic vet in SA and told that it is vaccine damage that caused it, and the Vets information provided to my friend was excellent. He has said basically all I have been saying for years & years to her, but it finally hit home that it is most likely all true. So there ARE some vets that are standing up for our pets! I am not setting out to convert you, but many pet owners dont realise the contraversy of annual vaccines, and it is up to us all to make our own minds up, we have the right to decide, and not be pushed into doing this, as it will be years before the protocol is changed here due to it causing financial ruin of vets if it suddenly ceased to be. This is the reason the "compromise" 3 yearly vaccine has made its appearance.........they charge 3 times as much so dont lose.......I still wont be using it though LOL

Jean Dodds website re Vaccination & the damage http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM Catherine O'Driscoll website is http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/ Some doggy Natural therapists are Robert McDowell (not sure of a website) Jackie Fitzgerald http://www.petpower.com.au/ Here is the letter written by the manufacturer of Proheart12 injection. You see in the box what the warning is on the label, but Australian Vets ignore this & give it routinely. Our version is 3 times the dose of the recalled version!!!!!!!! http://www.wyethah.ca/pdfs/Canine/EngLetterMarch16.pdf My opinion is that most seizures are caused by over vaccination and or the heartworm shot! I have seen quite a few fitting dogs as clients. They usually start it around the age of 5 or 6 when the build up of vaccine occurs (IMO)........Those that have ceased all chemical & vaccine treatments & put their dogs of natural raw diets, have successfully limited the siezures and many have stopped altogether. Homeopaths or Holistic vets can help detox the dog too. Those that have chosen to continue to vaccinate etc and use prescription drugs have just continued on with nothing changing. On a different tangent there have been cases of dogs drinking stagnant ponds/creek/dam water & having seizures caused by the algae. Also Ivermectin sensitivity ie heartworm tablets can cause seizures too. Some food for thought. (edited for spelling!)

OMG!! nail polish! I won't be trying that Well that is up to you, shame though as it is fast & effective. It smothers the organism & it dies, end of story. As for their being chemicals in nail polish, this remedy is in a Natural therapies book! More chemicals in all the flea/tick/worming treatments than anything else!

If it is not a hot spot, and actually IS a ringworm, then smother it in lemon juice & paint it over with clear nail polish.

I dont understand why she thinks BARF is expensive :rolleyes: It is so cheap, she just needs to source chicken straight from teh factory or a good butcher, get shopping bags of chicken carcass for $1 or $2.........Pet mince is cheap, offal is fairly cheap & you dont feed that much of it............

They are a big part of my dogs diet, they have them at least 3 times a week.

Sounds ghastly! I have been getting the odd flea here this year, and one flea is enough to completely ruin a dogs show coat I use Advantix and find that it only lasts 2-3 weeks these days. I also put it in different points down the spine especially at the tail area (the company recommended this) seems to work better. Capstar every other day for a while wont hurt either. Are the dogs up to date with worming? As wormy dogs always have fleas apparantly..just a thought. Feeding them garlic is said to help also. You can make up your own carpet powder with Baking soda or Bicarb soda & essential oils (100%) like eucalyptus, citronella etc in the baking soda & shake it up, then sprinkle it , leave for a while then vaccumm away. Good luck

An excellent range of products are "Dorwest Herbs " Made in UK, but there are distributors here. A lady at Bondi for example. You would probably like "Keepers Mix" www.dorwest.com Cheers

Doesnt surprise me any! I can quote a similar incident. Golden retreiver litter , where parents low scored from a line of excellent scores. Had ONE from a litter have dodgey hips,it was raised in a yard that was STEEP sloping yard, and every entrance into the house has steps...........Same as your situation. BTW for those looking at alternative treatments take a look at "Ester C" supplementing. (sorry about the length, I have no link to it :-((( Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia??? By Larry Mueller, Hunting Dogs Editor, Outdoor Life. Reprinted from Outdoor Life, January, 1996. An acquaintance of mine, B.J. Richardson, was calling from Texas, doubt and hope in his voice. "My English Pointer isn't a year old, and he's already lame in the rear end, especially the left hip," Richardson said. "The X-rays show hip dysplasia. The veterinarian says there are two choices: operate to alleviate the pain, or put the dog down. I can't afford one and won't do the other. Is it true that Vitamin C might help?" I had to say that I'd never heard of Vitamin C curing canine hip dysplasia, but I was aware that veterinarian Wendell Belsfield of San Jose, CA, did prevent CHD -- or least its symptoms -- in eight litters of German shepherds, a breed that is prone to crippling abnormal development of a dog's hip joints. In those instances, all of the dogs' parents had CHD or had previously whelped pups that became dysplastic. Belsfield gave the bitches Vitamin C throughout pregnancy and lactation. The pups received Vitamin C from weaning until they were two years old. None of the pups developed CHD during that entire period. Though Belsfield's work wasn't scientific in the strict sense, it certainly indicated that CHD could be prevented. Still I couldn't see how the joint could be remodeled once it had grown improperly, at least not without surgery. However, Vitamin C therapy seemed to be Richardson's only hope, so I told him what I knew. Many readers had written and told me that their arthritic dogs normally were laid up after a few hours in the field, but when given Vitamin C, they could hunt several days in a row. None had said they did it with dogs that had CHD, but maybe.... I also recalled reading about the efforts of Dr. Bob Cathcart, a medical doctor in California who championed the use of Vitamin C in curing a wide variety of joint ailments and illnesses. Much of his work centered around using the vitamin in large quantities, increasing the doses until the body reaches "bowel tolerances." Though Cathcart's work was with human patients, many veterinarians adopted his method, saying that Vitamin C should be given in increasing doses until the dog's stools loosen, at which point the dose should be backed off a half a gram or a gram at a time until the stools became firm again. At that point, the dog's body receives the maximum Vitamin C that it can utilize. I also understood that a superior form of the vitamin is Ester-C, which can be purchased in health food stores. The vitamin in Ester-C is molecularly locked to calcium, so it doesn't cause the acidity problems normally associated with ascorbic acid (the common form of Vitamin C), which can upset a dog's stomach. Ester-C also has natural C metabolites that get it into the cells faster and more effectively (common ascorbic acid is slower getting out of the blood serum, so it passes through the kidneys, where much of it is rapidly lost in the urine). Pinto's Rebound A month or two later, I heard that Pinto, Richardson's dog, had begun improving less than a week after receiving maximum doses of Ester-C. Pinto, the grandson of Miller's Chief -- an 11-time champion in horseback-style bird-dog trials -- was now running like the wind. I was as surprised as I was delighted. Two years later, I was in Texas and dropped in to see Pinto. Richardson had kept him on a maintenance dose of Ester-C. The dog was moving with a fluid grace and power in the hips. Twice, for a step or two, I saw a bunny hop, suggesting that not everything was 100 percent correct. But both times, Pinto immediately shifted back to a normal gait. I still couldn't understand how Ester-C could remodel a defective joint, but I was hopeful. Nobody I knew whose debilitated dog had improved clinically on Ester-C had ever taken X-rays of the joints, so I asked Richardson to have X-rays taken. He did and mailed me the original X-ray taken two years before and a new one. I showed both to Dianna K. Stuckey, a board certified radiologist in St. Louis, who looked at the original and pointed out the hip dysplasia with the left hip most severe. The second? "Arthritis that customarily follows hip dysplasia," she said. I explained Pinto's quick and lasting response to Ester-C. "How could this dog go from lame to moving freely, and apparently without pain, in a few days -- and stay that way without something improving in the joints?" "We occasionally see this," Stuckey said. "A dog is arthritic yet moves as if it feels no pain. We don't know why. Great 'heart' maybe, or high pain tolerance." Mystery Unfolds I'm sure that veterinarians do see this. But the answer to my question, Pinto's improvement was not because of great heart or high pain tolerance. He had been hurting and he had been limping badly. If his response to such pain improved in just a few days, something caused that change. Dr. Chuck Noonam of Weston, CT also compared the X-rays. He noticed slight improvement in the severity of the dysplasia but said the hip joint had clearly succumbed to degenerate arthritis from the dysplastic hip joint banging around in and out of the socket. "Eighty-three percent of dysplastic dogs either show an improvement in their hip dysplasia or they learn to deal with the problem as they grow older," Noonan said. "The second X-ray shows that the dysplasia is slightly less severe, but because of the arthritis, the joint is worse overall than in the earlier X-ray. It is possible that the Vitamin C was helping to sort of lubricate the joint so the dog felt less pain." In my investigations, I had found that Pinto's results from Ester-C weren't unique. Soon after Richardson first called, I received a letter from Steve Dudley of Arizona. His young black Lab, who showed great promise at hunting Gambel's quail, went lame with CHD. Dudley's vet suggested that Dudley replace the hip -- or expect to put the dog down by age four. Dudley tried Ester-C instead and the dog promptly improved. Kept on Ester-C, the dog lived until age 13 without showing signs of soreness, lameness, or unwillingness to hunt, Dudley wrote. Flood of Proof My investigation also led to Charles Docktor, an Arizona veterinarian who was the first to test Ester-C for its effectiveness in healing joint problems. In 1983, he used Ester-C on a large number of arthritic dogs, finding that 75 percent improved in various degrees in a short period of time. Independently, a continent away, Dr. Geir Erick Berge, a veterinarian in Oslo, Norway, performed a similar study, that was reported in the August-S eptember 1990 issue of The Norwegian Veterinary Journal. Berge selected 100 dogs with a variety of joint ailments. His testing revealed that 75 percent of the dogs rapidly improved on Ester-C, some only slightly, some almost totally. Dr. Berge added that large amounts of Vitamin C metabolites, substances essential to a body's metabolic processes, are required in rebuilding diseased joint tissue. Corroborating data were also reported by Dr. N. Lee Newman, who conducted 18 months of clinical tests using Ester-C to combat degenerative joint disease in performance horses. She reported a remarkable 90 percent success rate, ranging from good to excellent. Furthermore, 80 percent of the improved horses remained sound after Ester-C was discontinued. Newman credited supplemental Ester-C with maintaining the integrity of collagen and connective tissue and with mobilizing white cells in the immune system, while deactivating free radicals that damage cell membranes. But other respected voices were making contradictory statements. The Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine Animal Health newsletter in May 1995 denied that Vitamin C was of any value for either preventing or treating skeletal diseases in dogs. "There have been absolutely no confirmed reports that Vitamin C is helpful in any such instances," the newsletter stated. It went on to theorize that supplemental Vitamin C has no value because dogs produce adequate amounts of the vitamin in their livers. But that reasoning is questionable. Vitamin C production varies from dog to dog, individual bodily needs vary, and circumstances -- health and environment -- vary enormously. "Adequate" in human medicine only means enough Vitamin C to prevent scurvy. What is adequate for a strict carnivore like a dog? And in any case, "adequate" should not be assumed to be a synonym for "optimum." This is where a Vitamin C standoff occurs, and getting people to change their scientific opinion is like asking them to change their religion. In Cornell's favor, the evidence that has existed supporting the use of Vitamin C on dysplastic dogs is heavily anecdotal. Even the various veterinarians' research that has been cited was actually efficacy tests -- that is, all of the dogs tested were given similar doses of the vitamin and no controlled comparisons were made. Efficacy testing strongly suggests conclusive evidence, but it does not provide scientific proof. The Acid Test But in 1994, veterinarian L. Philips Brown presented the results of scientifically acceptable "double-blind crossover" study on the effects of Vitamin C to a national conference on holistic veterinary medicine. Brown, the owner of the largest veterinary hospital on Cape Code for 22 years, tested Vitamin C on 50 dogs with serious joint problems. The dogs were among a population of more than 500 canines at a large animal sanctuary in Utah. It should be noted here that representatives of Inter-Cal, makers of Ester-C, specifically asked Brown to study the vitamin because they felt it could have a major role in the treatment of joint abnormalities. Dave Stenmoe, one of the representatives of the manufacturer, says "We told [brown] not to take our word for anything." Just to keep an open mind and conduct a scientific comparison of Ester-C, ordinary Vitamin C, and a placebo. He finally agreed to do it. Brown, along with the Utah sanctuary's resident veterinarian, hand-picked the dogs with the worst cases of joint disease and placed them in five groups. After four weeks of testing, the supplements were withdrawn for three weeks. Then, each dog was crossed over to a different group and received another supplement for another four weeks. After yet another three-week layoff, 60 percent of the dogs were switched to a third supplement. The remaining 40 percent went back to whatever they were given during the first four weeks. At the end, mobility scores were calculated to determine the average for each of the five groups. The results were impressively in favor of Ester-C therapy. Seventy-eight percent of the dogs on 2,000mg of Ester-C experienced improved mobility within four or five days. The average improvement score was 1.52. About 60 percent of the improved dogs relapsed when Ester-C was discontinued, but the group that returned to Ester-C in the third phase then regained mobility. Handlers reported no negative side effects. On the low (850mg) dose of Ester-C, only 52 percent of the dogs improved, with an average score of 0.45. Obviously, size of dose was important. Of dogs receiving 2,000mg of Ester-C with extra minerals, 62 percent improved by an average score of 0.87. Why Ester-C without extra minerals had better results remains unknown. Ordinary Vitamin C improved 44 percent of the dogs, with a score of 0.67. As expected, no noticeable change occurred among dogs on the placebo. Not even the most dyed-in-the-wool skeptic can ignore the results of such a double-blind crossover study. But the success of Vitamin C in treating CHD can still be questioned, or even denied, because X-rays show that the joints remain loose or arthritis remains. Even Brown confirms that X-rays taken for his study reveal defective skeletal structures even after the Ester-C treatment.

*Interesting article on Hip Displasia............ http://www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html

I have read many articles on HD, and even though YES it CAN be hereditary, it CAN also be envirmonmental, and is MORE so the case.......things like slippery floors (tiles, floorboards), stairs, hard playing, long walks or runs as a youngster, and not to mention, poor quality diets........ Your pup should really be hip xrayed & sent away to be scored to accuarately diagnose this condition......i havent a clue what symptoms he is exibiting??? Can pinched nerve or other injury be ruled out??? Any decent breeder WILL want to know that any particular lines they are working with have produced a problem. Especially so in a small gene pool situation as with AmStaffs........if you do not talk to them about it, they could repeat that mating or similar matings without ever knowing there has been any problem, and so it goes on for years to come any decent breeder would be providing compensation if it does look to be hereditary. Cheers

Please dont pull your head in Steve, tossing around of ideas & opinions is always good.

I am just wondering if plain "Colic" is an accurate diagnosis. It seems strange to me that he didnt develop it until 3y/o, you would think a baby puppy would especially suffer with it & maybe grow out of it.........There are some other disorders that do have Colic as a symptom, and can be treated. I know of a dog with Pancraetic insufficiency, who is on drugs all its life & is currently 12, and doing fine. http://www.isabellevets.co.uk/health_advic...ficiencydog.htm It might be worth getting another diagnosis, and perhaps it might bring some comfort in his senior years.

http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/codliveroil.htm Another iste from UK vet site. Cheers

Huh?? Can you provide links for the studies done on that?? Would be interesting as I've never heard of it. I am not sure of any links for you to read on this, and I havent experienced it myself, as I dont give it in summer, I use Salmon oil or flax seed oil mainly. I can only go by what Dr Billinghurst (bathurst clinic) has suggested. This thread also came up recently on a show list, and breeders had made comment that COL does cause itching due to "heating up the dog" as a side effect of giving in hot months. I would presume it to be a similar side effect of allergy dogs when they eat foods that ellevate their skin temp.........Ironically COL & Zinc can be excellent in treating skin conditions! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2004...e_superfood.htm an extract of the 2nd link...It also explains the benefits & probable birth defects & what nots.......... Now that I have told you all this good news about cod liver oil, I need to comment on the research surrounding its possible toxicity. Over-elevated serum levels of vitamin D are a possibility if you combine summer or southern sun and cod liver oil. So if you are spending a lot of time out in the sun during the summer months, it's probably best to cut back on the dose. If you are unsure, you should test your blood levels of vitamin D. If you sunbathe regularly and have found that your vitamin D levels are within the normal range, do not use cod liver oil unless you are willing to test and retest to determine that your blood levels of vitamin D have not gone too high. We do not know enough to say whether or not sunbathing and cod liver oil work synergistically or antagonistically. If you decide to get lots of sun and also use cod liver oil, please send me your vitamin D tests for my continued research. Cod liver oil use is safe in most of the US and all of Canada in winter but it should not be combined with other sources of vitamin D without careful testing and monitoring.

YES Steven that is correct, and COL given in summer supposedly also causes itchy skin from heating up the blood. there are other fish oils that are more suitable during pregnancy & summer months

Sorry, had to ask. What does red cordial do?? LOL Parents use red cordial in young kids for stomach/bowel problems. i dont know why it works however :D

It is recomended that Cod Liver Oil is not given through summer months, due to already high levels of Vit D from the sun.......it should really only be used in Winter. Through hotter months Salmon oils etc can be used safely. ALSO another point about CLO is that it should NEVER be given to pregnant bitches, as it causes birth defects in the first trimester..........hardly relevant to the topic, but worth filing away.............

Poor little dog I have only used parrafin oil for obvious constipation. Normally for any tummy/bowel upsets, I use mashed cooked pumpkin, yakkault, acidopholis yoghurt, or red cordial........all fix problems from diareahea to constipation! I am interested to know if he has suffered Colic the whole time you have fed that brand of dry food? That is one of the imported brands that uses ethoxyquin as a preservative. Ethoxyquin is used to make Rubber!!! As far as I knew it is a banned substance here, but imported brands get away with it by calling it preservative number xxx, who knows what. Cabbage,potatoes,onions, grains can all cause "gas".............I would be avoiding all forms of grains (which every processed dog food contains! ie wheat etc) and feed a natural BARF diet, avoiding all processed & packaged foods, and cut down the rice........Brown rice is better, but still something that canines would not eat in the wild. They are carnivores :-)) Cheers

No sorry I know people who use clarantyne with good results.

Yes Revolution spot on will cure it, and so too will a drop of frontline in the ears.