Cavandra

The only time Titer Tests are useful is 2 weeks after the pup has been fully vaccinated, to see if it has T Cells or not, if it doesnt have any then it wont matter how many times the owner vaccinates it , it will never have immunity!

Titers are often recommended on this forum by those of us that have not been annually vaccinating for years & years, as it is so difficult to get pet owners to understand their dog has lifteime immunity, and then they have the issue of Boarding kennels & Dog training Clubs who are not up to date with how Vaccines work..........It is a compromise to show them a Titer result.....But the main issue in this Country is the amount of Vets that dont understand immunolgy either, and therefore dont understand Titer results LOL

Virtually all Vets in the area were invited to the Brisbane seminar, and to my knowledge only a handful accepted, most were not remotely interested!

Frustrating!!!!

Does anyone know of any dogs who have had the three year vaccination and had a reaction? A friend recently had her boy done (I tried to talk her out of any vaccination as he is 7 and has been done every year). He started having seizures yesterday. He's at the vet today and they've taken blood so we are awaiting results.

She needs to report the reaction & then find a homeopathic Vet to detox the dog. A General Vet will only treat the dog as an epileptic with drugs. All Vaccines can cause adverse reactions, this dog is now a dog suffering from Vaccinosis, and likely has encephalitis.......Normally it is the heartworm shot that causes seizures.

Many dogs get vaccinated, but the vaccine does not work.Doesnt matter how many times you vaccinate the dog it will never be immune, simply does not work........... This is why Jean Dodds & others do like to vaccinate them wait 2 weeks & then Titer them to see if they have T Cells or not..........

In some cases people are vaccinating their dogs every year for 10 years or more, but if they Titered the dog many would see their dog has zero immunity.........This another reason why vaccinated dogs get teh very diseases they are supposedly vaccinated against.

For this reason a Vaccination card from a Vet actually means NOTHING. It does not prove the dog has T Cells..........This is why all clubs & all kennels should accept Titer Test results, as they actually ARE proof the dog is covered.....get my drift???

Thanks for that titre information Bubbly. I've just had my dog tested, still waiting on results, but done by a vet who has never even heard of titre testing.

Worries me that they won't interpret the results correctly and will tell me that I need to vaccinate if the titre is "low", and worse won't give me a letter stating that her titre test is fine for club purposes unless I do vaccinate

If that happens send them to Jean Dodds, she is more than happy to help Aussies

I am still tossing and turning about the vaccination debate. It is the same in the human world about vaccinating our kids or not.

Are dogs that are not vaccinated frequently not getting sick because the majority of the population are vaccinated so there is less diseases to go around? I don't know.

As I foster rescues I am still vaccinating my dogs every year to be safe. I would love to Titer test in the future and then vaccinate if needed. Hopefully Titer testing will become more readily available in the future.

Recently I had a rescue that had come from the pound and later developed KC in his new home. Of my two dogs the girl that is due for her vaccination next month got a horribley snotty nose and cold whilst my boy got nothing, he is due for his vaccination at the end of the year.

Firstly it is not exactly a debate there is no evidence that supports annual vaccines.

The pet whisperer There are about 20 links at teh end of the page to others who understand how Vaccines work....Some extracts from this site....

Dogs' and cats' immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (i.e.,: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper.) If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their mother's milk. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age will provide LIFETIME IMMUNITY.

AND

Kennel Cough Vaccines. In 5,000 dogs studied in shelters, it made no difference which vaccines were given, as some dogs still got kennel cough. Upper respiratory infection is endemic in most pounds and shelters because of the crowding, poor ventilation, and variable hygiene. Kennel cough vaccines are basically useless, as natural immunization is ubiquitous.

Dr Charles Loops

Homeopathic veterinarians and other holistic practitioners have maintained for years that Vaccinations are doing harm. Aside from the immediate risk of vaccination side-effects, such as allergic reactions and anaphylactic shock, there are more compelling reasons to avoid vaccinations whenever possible. Vaccinations represent a major assault on the body's immune system. Attenuated organisms, or chemically killed viruses or bacteria, are injected directly into the blood stream via subcutaneous or intra-muscular injection, an unnatural route of infection. This profound insult avoids the body's first line of defenses, flooding the system with millions of organisms or viral particles, causing irregularities and abnormalities in the immune system which then manifest as chronic diseases in animals. This overall effect, while potentially protecting the individual from a specific, acute disease, is to weaken or create imbalance in the immune system so that underlying tendencies to diseases are brought to the surface. In other words, vaccinations represent a major stress. Following vaccinations, we often see chronic problems begin such as epilepsy, skin allergies, persistent upper respiratory infections, irritable bowel syndromes, auto-immune diseases and cancer, just to name a few.

What we now confront in our animal companions are generations of over-vaccinated animals, and these current offspring are suffering the penalty of this medical abuse. Where vaccinations have helped in eradicating or reducing the incidents of severe and acute disease processes, the result has been to plague us with more insidious, chronic diseases that are difficult to treat and often incurable and that lower that quality of life for many individuals and animals.

After more than twenty years of practicing veterinary medicine, I am observing chronic diseases that begin much earlier than before. Cancer before five years of age in dogs and cats was a rarity, but now it is not unusual to see fatal cancers in two and three year old animals. And the incidence or number of cases is definitely increasing. While poor breeding practices, poor commercial diets and other environmental factors play their part, I believe it is the practice of vaccinating an animal repeatedly, with multiple vaccinations throughout their lifespan that factors the most. We have genetically weakened our companions with this practice. A normal dog or cat living to twelve years of age will receive at least twenty and possibly thirty vaccinations during their lifetime. Fifteen or so of these shots will have four to seven disease fractions present in each vaccination.

In all of this, balance in nature has been lost to the pharmaceutical-medical complex's philosophy, propelled in great part by monetary factors, leading us to believe that all vaccinations are beneficial.

Dr Pitcairn You need to read it all, and read the part about Measles too , as that is what Distemper is.

You should start seeing "improvement" in about 2 weeks, however if it is yeast infections of skin & ears etc it is usually can take longer. It depends on how much the dog has to detox , years of commercial foods will take longer to detox. I would say 1 month mark is where you will see hair growth etc

The 2 weeks weaned before vaccination was in fact a theory at one stage. The reason was that "they" knew that vaccinating at 6 weeks of age was having ZERO effect, and this was the theory of maternal antibodies interferring.......Now they realise that it the age & immune system , it has to be done after 8 weeks or it will not work.

There are quite a few of us on this forum who have been bashing our heads against a brick wall on this subject for many years now.....it is very frustrating!!!

My pups are done with C3 twice and then get another one a year later, and never get vaccinated again ............ :p

id prefer not to say breed other than a large breed and he is 11 months old.

I havnt taken him to the vet yet but think its prob a good idea. His teeth are fine, very healthy looking. He has always been like this but he seems to be getting ALOT worse. He is a show dog, and therefor is hard to bait in the ring cos of this reason.

I guess i will just speak to the vet.

More than likely Tonsillitis.........if so the iodine method usually cures it while antibiotic method usually sees it recurring, & removal is best .....

Vaccines are not administered as an IM injection, there is no reason to cause an abscess .......This reaction was the reason I switched to Canvac brand years ago......I have been coaxed back to Protech now, and so far so good........One of mine took 2 months for the abscess to go!

What breed & how old?

Dogs are carnivores, they are meant to eat raw meats & bones

Yes this is a Vaccine reaction, and it should be reported .........

Surely the suspension the moxidectin is in must be different, otherwise the SR-12 would all be absorbed in 6 months. There must be something different about it to make it be absorbed slower. It wouldn't just be because there is more of it being injected, because otherwise the size of the dog would determine how long it lasted, if that makes sense. Which could potentially be why the proheart6 has had more problems, because the chemical is being absorbed much faster.

Definitely something I'm going to question the FD reps on when they next come by...

Trouble is that if it were this simple the yanks would have adopted Proheart 12, and they never have.........why not I ask ????? My theory is that due to drug companies having zero ethics, so long as they are "getting away with it" they will continue, Australia is a far easier target as we dont sue over everything like Americans do, and we are more gullible.... JMO

Aspergillus?

Yes if it starts with A that is all I can think of that meets the description..........If it were me facing such a thing, i would be consulting a Homeopathic Vet to see what their take on it would be.........I have never seen any miracles occur with conventional Vet medicine to date, but have witnessed many through natural therapies............JMO

It sounds like spondylitis, which isnt exactly rare, although usually seen in older dogs I spose..

website

Thanks for the heads up, I've just been doing some Googling. That's quite scary if that is what it is but it is presenting more like an infection than an allergy. They haven't socialised with any other dogs in the last two weeks but perhaps one of them snuffled the wrong thing at the Yass Show last weekend and brought it home.

Fortunately I'm not planning to breed this bitch so I hope I don't need to freak out too much. She's only entire because GAs are highly risky for her and the vet has recommended against spaying for this reason. If I could spay her, lord knows I would. Will call the vet tomorrow for a chat.

Is there not an implant for girls now, like there is for boys, which stops them coming in season? Might be just what you need :rolleyes:

You will probably never know now.........But pinched nerves can present neurological symptoms also, perhaps a slipped disc corrected itself, stranger things have happened I spose.

The obvious would be an inhalant allergy, but this time of year in Canberra it isnt likely to be a natural inhalant like a pollen.

Dogs can get upper respiratory infections in varying degrees, but of course another Virus that presents as upper respiratory & does have sneezing is Canine Herpes Virus......

Well, i am even more confused!

Have found out my vet DOES do the KC needle, so will be doing that, 3 year vac, with KC

But i found out that another vet does a C5 - but their C5 does not include a KC shot? That you have to get a C8 to get KC in it?

I thought they were all the same an a C5 had the same things in it no matter where you got it from??

LOL.....so if THEIR C5 is different to everyone elses, did you ask which 5 components their "special" one does?

C3 is 3 Viruses (core vaccine Parvo, Distemper & Hepatitis)

C4 is 4 Viruses - add Parainfluenza

C5 is 5 Viruses - add Bordetella

C7 is 7 Viruses - add Leptospirosis

C8 is 8 Viruses - add Coronavirus

Imagine having 8 Viruses injected into your body at one time!!!

This 3 year vaccine is the same product as you have always been given, they just call it a different name!!!!

I am a bit confused also and was worried about the nasal KC vaccination.

I ended up getting Astro (papillon) vaccinated with a C4 and the nasal KC today. Only after voicing my concerns (from what I read here) about the Nasal process. The vet convinced me that it was kinder than giving it as part of the injection as it can be quite painful for small puppies.

I hope he is ok... He seems ok so far!

The ONLY time I used this nasal spray all my pups were very sick indeed, they didnt get sick until about a week later....basically the nasal spray actually gave them the kennel cough virus. Never again!!!

I have been using "Canine All Wormer" for years. It is economical & I have never had worms here in my life.

It does Roundworm, Hookworm, Whipworm, Tapeworm & Hyatid tapeworm .

Both vet practices in our country town say they have never heard anything about proheart side effects. I asked the vet at a consult where I usually take my dogs and she said she would do some reading but had never heard of it causing any problems. When I took Elly to puppy preschool - run by the other clinic - the vet nurse was telling us we should get it done and when I queried it she also said that their clinic gives it routinely without any adverse reactions. I am not sure, I haven't done enough reading on it, but I am not happy to give it to my dogs on what I have read.

They say this because they are talking about a dog suddenly becoming ill or dying suddenly after having it done.....that is rarely the case..........What it does is causes things like seizures months later.........Ask your Vet how many dogs they have on their books that have "epilepsy"....then ask how many have the heart worm shot!

Wonder how many clients they have lost because the customers dog did die, or did have a reaction at the time & they blamed that Vet rather than the drug itself & so changed Vets & never told them why they changed Vets....get my drift............Australians in general believe everything the Vet tells them, Many Americans dont, and that is why all our reactions (whether Vaccine, heartworm, anaesthetic, drug related ) never get reported here !!!

Many dogs never show any signs of distress, death, seizures etc. ....what about the ones that do though, and just because a dog has had it 5 years in a row doesnt mean it wont die from it the next year..........the death will be presumed to be from something else of course........

Just thought i would add this to the thread............showing the corruption involved! If you want to look at the links you will need to cut & paste them to your browser.

_http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/06/our-view-on-dru.HTML#more_

Our view on drug safety: FDA vet tracks dog deaths, gets smeared in the

Process

Tale of ProHeart 6 raises questions about who calls the shots at agency.

_ProHeart 6_ (http://www.proheart6.com/) — a controversial heartworm drug

For dogs — came back on the market last week, almost _four years after it

was

Pulled_ (http://www.senate.gov/~finance/press/Gpress/2008/prg060508.PDF)

When hundreds of dogs died and thousands more suffered adverse reactions.

Ordinarily, this might be of interest mainly to pet owners and

veterinarians. But

This is much more than a dog story.

(Photo - Hampshire: Questioned heartworm shot / Leslie E. Kossoff, AP)

During the process that took ProHeart 6 off the market, the drug's maker

_investigated and denounced a Food and Drug Administration scientist_

(http://www.usatoday

com/money/industries/health/drugs/2005-12-05-FDA-wyeth-probe_x.htm)

Who gathered the damning data. And instead of protecting its scientist, the

FDA booted her off the case and tried to have her criminally prosecuted.

It's a disturbing tale for anyone who relies on pharmaceutical companies and

The FDA to ensure that medicines for animals and humans are safe, one that

Raises questions about the conduct of a major corporation and its federal

Regulator.

The story begins in 2001, when ProHeart 6 came on the U.S. Market. It was

Regarded as a breakthrough. Veterinarians could inject it once every six

months,

Replacing the once-a-month pill people gave — or often forgot to give —

Their dogs to ward off potentially deadly heartworms. Though many dogs did

fine

On ProHeart 6, others had dangerous complications. Eventually, the FDA says

500 to 600 dogs died and there were "adverse" reactions, including seizures

And uncontrolled bleeding, in 5,500 to 6,000.

In 2004, the FDA pushed ProHeart 6 manufacturer Fort Dodge Animal Health, a

Subsidiary of pharmaceutical giant Wyeth, to _remove the drug from the

Market_ (http://www.FDA.gov/BBS/topics/answers/2004/ans01312.HTML) . Wyeth

argued

That the drug was safe but agreed to remove it. Then it fought back.

The company _targeted Victoria Hampshire_

(http://www.whistleblower.org/content/press_detail.cfm?press_id=1302) , a

veterinarian and FDA safety officer

Who collected and analyzed the adverse drug reports on ProHeart 6. Wyeth

hired

Investigators who dug up information on Hampshire's home, her tax records

and

A veterinary website where a handful of her friends and veterinary clients

Could buy drugs and pet supplies. (It's not uncommon for FDA's vets to

Practice medicine part-time in their off hours.) Wyeth executives then

alleged that

Hampshire had a conflict of interest.

Without telling Hampshire what was going on, the FDA took her off the

ProHeart 6 case and began an internal investigation that culminated when FDA

Investigators asked the U.S. Attorney in Maryland to criminally prosecute

her. It

Took one day for the U.S. Attorney to sort through the flimsy referral and

Refuse to press charges. The FDA _eventually exonerated Hampshire_

(http://www.msnbc.MSN.com/id/18137930/) , and she now works at the agency in

a different

Job.

ProHeart 6, meanwhile, is back on the market. The manufacturer and the FDA

Say the drug is safe, free of the solvent residue thought to have caused the

Earlier problems. But the drug is being administered under a strict "_risk

Minimization_ (http://www.FDA.gov/cvm/Documents/Proheart6RiskMAP.PDF) " plan

that

Applies to only a small number of FDA-approved drugs for animals and humans

We know much of this story not because Wyeth or the FDA disclosed it

Voluntarily, but because a persistent _investigation by Sen. Chuck

Grassley_

(http://finance.senate.gov/press/Gpress/2008/prg020608.PDF) , R-Iowa,

dragged it out

Of them. The probe revealed that Wyeth officials had easy, undocumented

Access to the FDA to lobby for ProHeart 6 and attack Hampshire. FDA

managers

Seemed more interested in placating Wyeth than in dealing fairly with one

of its

Scientists.

The most troubling aspect of this is the effect it will inevitably have on

Other FDA safety officers. After seeing what can happen when someone gathers

Evidence that a drug is unsafe, what safety officers wouldn't think twice

about

Risking their careers by antagonizing powerful companies?

That's a terribly dangerous way to run a drug safety process that can

ultimately mean life or death to animals and humans alike.

Posted at 12:22 AM/ET, June 17, 2008 in _Animals - Editorial_

(http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/animals_editorial/index.html) , _Drug abuse

- Editorial_

(http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/drug_abuse_editorial/index.html) , _USA

TODAY

editorial_ (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/usa_today_editorial/index.html)

I have never seen this. However I see excessive Carbs cause hot skin & skin erruptions, yeast infections.......rice, corn, grains.............