MontysMum

Well we tried Artemis Maximal for Monty because of his skin sensitivity and his skin never looked better... BUT now I am sitting here trawling through looking for advice about low protein diets because tonight for the 2nd night in a row Monty is in hospital after requiring surgery for bladder stones :D The vet & his breeder seem to think that it has been caused by the high protein diet of Maximal (Crude protein 42%)

Well our pack of Artemis arrived today They shipped it on tuesday from Victoria and it was here this morning! Also will be looking at getting a Brisbane stockist... Will let everyone know what happens...

Im so glad I came on here, I havent been here for ages but was fighting the demons inside to go against all of my beliefs and try Monty on EVO... I desperately DO NOT want to support PP. I have called Natura in the US and are trying to see if there is any way that another company can import the EVO, I am wondering if anyone else wants to call them and plead with them about the PP dilema. Anyway after reading this thread I am looking at Artemis Maximal. EVO vs Maximal any comments??? Food wise I mean not the PP issues. I know all about the PP and have always sworn I would not support them in anyway. I am trying my hardest to make it known to Natura that the wider dog community of Australia refuse to support puppy farms and the PP company. Just wondering if there are more people out there telling them the same story if they will actually look at giving it to another supplier because surely they are not interested in supporting PP.

We went back to feeding Monty Nutro Lamb & rice the day that it was available as he had done so well on it before the importing stopped... I had been very unhappy having to change from Nutro and started him on Nutrience Derma which he adjusted to well but didnt seem to be quite as good with his skin. Then we couldnt get Derma easily and had to order it in well in advance. Then when we heard that Nutro was back I was excited, and because we needed food our store actually had the supplier send us a bag ASAP before the store actually recieved the stock. Anyway I dont know what they have changed but we r just about to finish the 18kg bag and have noticed over the past few weeks that Monty has been having some dry spots and a few lumps in his skin His skin has always been sensitive but I dont ever remember him having any issues with the previous Nutro Lamb & rice. But now that we cant get Nutrience Derma easily and the Nutro doesnt appear to be as fantastic as i was last time, I am fighting the demons inside to go against all of my beliefs and try him on EVO... I desperately DO NOT want to support PP. I have called INNOVA in the US and are trying to see if there is any way that another company can import the EVO.

HI all... Been so long since we have been around and we just found out about the nutro supply :D :D Just wondering what everyone else is trying???? Monty has been on Nutro Lamb & Rice for almost 2 years now and it was the best thing that we could have fed him - it cleared up all his sensitive skin probs. Anyway not very happy at all but today hubby came home with a bag of Nutrience Derma to try til we can find something up to the quality of Nutro or better. ANY IDEAS???? Am thinking that Orijen is maybe too much protein for a Dally and REFUSE to go to PP to get Innova. Has anyone heard anything about Natural Balance? I would be very interested to see what hesapandabear thinks because they put me onto Nutro to start with All ideas welcome MM

RIP Sammy. Doggleworth I am sure he loved you as much as you loved him and you gave him a great long life

RIP Ginny

Do they have NUTRO at the store at all???? WHat about looking online to buy your Royal Canin???

We went looking for a pair for Monty but the shop told us that unless you start thyem from when they are a puppy it is very hard to get them to stay on. They even let us try them and you bet all Monty wanted to do was get them off his head....

Monty loves whole apples and carrots I think he thinks they are a bone he gets so excited. He also likes lettuce cores - the cruncy bit not the leafy bits. He also eats raw tomato, watermelon, kiwifruit, rockmelon, and soy & linseed bread... He's a weirdo edited to add pic of his fave... whole apples

I am changing to Nutro - it is easy to buy where I live as the pet shop has it. PM Hesapandabear and she may be able to help you

Monty at the moment is on Vet science diet for sensitive skin but I wouldnt reccomend it we are changing to Nutro. He also gets a tin of sardines a week and an egg a week. He also gets apples and carrots raw & marrow bones for treats

YEah I know and that is why we are changing to Nutro that is the ingredient list for Hills Vet Science Diet for Sensitive Skin. As soon as it runs out we are changing to Nutro

Does anyone feel like trying to do this one for me because I dont think I got it right. Also I am not giving any points for endorsement because some people will endorse anything for the right money Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken by-Product Meal, Dried Egg Product, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Chicken Liver Flavor, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, DL-Methionine, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Tryptophan, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-carotene, Rosemary Extract. I got it in the 50s well and truely an F

Below is an exert from the dogfoodanalysis website. How do we assess the foods? Choosing a good dry pet food isn’t that easy. If you’ve ever read the ingredient label on a pet food, you’ll notice that there is one crucial bit of information missing: how much of each ingredient is in the food. That really is crucial information. As we’ve already noted, most dry pet foods are based on grains or other plant material. But the animals we’re feeding them to are carnivores and should be eating a diet that is mainly made up of meat… You’ll see the crude fat and crude protein content of the food listed on the labelling, but that alone does not tell us very much. Grains contain protein too – but it’s far less bioavailable protein for a carnivore that lacks the digestive enzymes needed to digest plants. Protein derived from meat represents a far higher quality and species-appropriate diet for a carnivore than plant proteins ever can be. What’s the point of a protein if it cannot be properly digested? Fortunately, it is possible to make an educated guess as to the quality of a pet food. Until or unless the percentages of the ingredients are required to be shown on the ingredient lists or manufacturers disclose that information voluntarily, it can only ever be an educated guess or assessment, based on the knowledge that we do have. But that is far better than relying on the advertising hype. What we look for in pet foods: Meat, meat and more meat products. Cats and dogs are carnivores, and a species appropriate diet for these animals must be based on meat. They have no evolved need of carbohydrates in their diet. Grains are in pet food because they’re cheaper than meat products, and are needed to hold the kibble bits together. Not because they’re species-appropriate nutrition for a carnivorous mammal. Meat and fat products that are identified by species. If the species cannot be identified, neither can the quality. We suggest avoiding any products that use unidentified “meat”, “animal” or “poultry” products in their foods. Where grains are used, we look for good quality whole grains. Avoid those products that make prolific use of grain fragments (think floor sweepings) in their foods – these are nutritionless fillers. Whole fruits and vegetables are appreciated, especially where these replace grains in the foods. Organic ingredients are appreciated – but note above about the need for a food to contain a high proportion of meat. Organic grains are very nice where grains must be used, but they are no substitute for meat content. What we avoid: Foods containing any form of by-products, most especially those of indeterminate origin (“animal”, “poultry”, etc). Artificial colours, flavours, sweeteners or preservatives – especially those believed to be carcinogenic or that are banned from use in the human food chain. In dog food, principally these are BHT, BHA, Ethoxyquin, Propyl Gallate. NOTE: Some ingredients, usually fish products, may contain artificial preservatives that are not disclosed on the ingredient list; if they are not added by the manufacturer, they are not required to be listed. We therefore look for assurances by manufacturers using ocean fish products that their foods do NOT contain any artificial preservatives. Meats and fats that are not identified by species. These could literally be anything, and are almost certainly of very low quality. Practices and ingredients to be aware of: Splitting Splitting is a common practice on dog food labels and it pays to be aware. Ingredients in dog food are listed in order of their weight – so the heaviest ingredients, those that make up the largest portion of the food, are listed first. Splitting is when a manufacturer lists different components of the same ingredient as separate items. For example, chicken and chicken meal are both chicken products. Brown rice, white rice, rice, rice bran, rice gluten and rice flour are all parts of the same ingredient – rice. Yes, there is a difference in the nutritional aspects of the different forms of rice – brown rice is more nutritious than white rice, and grain fragments are far lower quality and less nutritious than whole grains. But the issue around splitting is in determining quantity. The reason for the practice of “splitting” is essentially to make the ingredient list look better. As an example, when there are large quantities of rice in the food, a manufacturer might choose to list the component parts separately. That way, although the total rice products may make up, say, 55% of the food and meat only 25%, it is possible to list the meat product first and then three or four individual rice products that each separately weigh less than the meat product. Combined, however, rice makes up more than double the chicken content. Manufacturers don’t disclose the quantity of ingredients on the labelling though. So you have to make the best assessment you can from the rest of the information given. Thus, while seeing the component parts of rice (or any other ingredient) is useful for determining the quality of ingredients used, when you’re trying to assess quantity you should always mentally add those component parts together. Splitting can also serve to increase the level of confidence one has in the quantity of particular ingredients used. When you see two forms of the same meat ingredient, chicken for example, at the head of an ingredient list that can help you come to the reasonable conclusion that there is indeed a reasonable amount of chicken in the food. The ingredient “chicken” means fresh chicken which is inclusive of its water content. Now water content is of course removed in the process of making dry dog food. It is thus likely that the true position of that ingredient (sans water) should be much further down the ingredient list than is stated. But if that were the first ingredient in a food, and the next ingredient is “chicken meal” then the practice of splitting can tell us that there was sufficient chicken meal in the food for it to be rated ahead of the first grain despite a portion of the ingredient split off. This serves to increase our confidence that the true first ingredient is that named – a form of chicken (meat product). Be careful though That would not necessarily be the case if the grains behind it were also split, or if there are a lot of different grain products in the food. Some examples: Example 1: Chicken, chicken meal, turkey, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat…. That looks excellent. There are “four” meat ingredients at the head of the ingredient list. And only one grain. Once we factor in the removal of water content (which is about 80%) from the ingredients “chicken” and “turkey” then it is likely that these would be more accurately placed somewhat further down the ingredient list. A more likely “true” ingredient list here is thus: chicken meal, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat, chicken (sans water), turkey (sans water). So how does it look now? Actually, still very good. The first two ingredients are still meat products, and there are two further meat products in the food. There is only one grain ahead of the fat content. We could have a very high level of confidence that there really was a decent quantity of meat products in the food. Example 2: Chicken meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, rice gluten meal, barley, chicken fat… At first glance, that also looks fairly good. The first ingredient in the food is a meat product – in meal form too, so we don’t have to factor in the effects of water removal. But is it really the first ingredient? Actually, we can’t be confident that it is. Once we add all the different forms of rice together, they may well outweigh the chicken meal. And in fact they probably do, by a significant margin. Note that there’s another grain right behind the rice products in the ingredient list too. In short, it is impossible to be confident that the food contains an adequate amount of meat. While not strictly an example of splitting, you should also take note of foods that use a lot of different grain products, and mentally add all those grains together to compare against all meat products. For example: Chicken meal, brown rice, barley, oat groats, ground corn, chicken fat, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, fish meal, millet… No splitting going on there, so we can read that as a true list. But we should look carefully at the overall meat versus grain content. The first ingredient may be meat, but in this case it is followed immediately by four different grains ahead of the fat content, and three more grains after that. There is one further meat product (a meal) but it’s 9th on the ingredient list. It is likely that the combined grain products outweigh the total meat products by a large margin. This too is a grain heavy food. The manufacturers won’t tell us the exact proportions of the ingredients that go into the products, so it is really a case of making an assessment based on the information you do have. And when it comes to dog food, it is wiser to err on the side of scepticism than of blind trust.

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I like so many others have followed this thread so very closely praying for a miracle that never came. May Page now be free from the pain and suffering and take her final diploma. Rest in peace beautiful girl, thankyou for showing just how precious life is. Go and play now with all your new angel friends free of your hurting. Graduation...a time for joy...and for some..a time for sorrow. To Graduate...means going from one stage in our lives to another. For many that means to graduate from high school or college... But for some children...it means to graduate to Heaven instead. Graduation they say...is a time for change...whether we are ready for it or not. Some now wear a halo...where as others wear a graduation cap. Some will walk across the stage and get their diploma...others now have wings to fly. But...both are very proud of their accomplishments in life....and their family and friends are too. They are still a part of this graduating class....and I hope and pray they will be remembered. And to those of us left behind....We are the ones who have become truely educated.... We have learned so much about life....family...whats important...and whats not. We have been taught that every day is a blessing...and we need to make every second count. And as another year goes by....it marks the end of a stage in our journey of lifelong learning. We hold tight to a past full of rich precious memories.... Memories that will carry us into the future. The past is a time for reflection and cherished memories...these will all help carry us forward... The future is a time for our hopes, our dreams and our inspirations. We do not need to let go...even though they have graduated to Heaven.. For they are still with us....and will follow us into the future.... And will ALWAYS be a part of our hopes, our dreams, and our inspirations. We take with us what we have learned....and what we hold close to our hearts. We need to thank those who have been by our sides....held our hands...and helped us along... Those who have listened without telling us to get over it....those who have tried to understand. For without all of you and God......who knows where we would be. So to those who have been there for me...you know who you are...I thank you with all my heart. As our children, our heros, graduate to a higher level...and get their "Final Diploma"... The importance of life...and what we have learned...will never be forgotten. For their names are engraved forever in our hearts...and forever in our memories. They are the breath within us that give us courage to follow our hearts... Whether here on Earth or in Heaven above...their voices will always live on... Copyright © June 2001 Written by : Laura/Heavenly Lights Childrens Memorial

a little poem from a young leukeamia sufferer Kayleigh BUTTERFLY Wish I could escape, Go fly away, Leave all the pain behind me, Find a better day. Wish I could escape, Flap my wings and disappear, Forget about my troubles, Let go of all the fear. Wish I could escape, Forever be in flight, Discover exciting new places, With colours dull and bright. Wish I could escape, Flutter my wings through time, Without a care in the world, Wish I was a butterfly.

RIP

My Hills Science Diet scored the same pathetic mark and its from the vet. We are changing to Nutro - had already planned on doing this. The science diet is very endorsed which gives a false belief that it is good when quite obviously it isnt.

Our prayers remain with little Page and her family. Praying for a miracle precious angel

This thread and the other have had me in tears. To Siv and Amber you are both :rolleyes: I dont know the story of Page but she looks like she has leukaemia ( & her Mum is wearing a leukaemia arm band ) This is why this whole story is so close to me & I thank you all everyone else who helps out these sick kids who deserve everything in their short little life. My one & only neice who has always been my little :angel:was diagnosed the week she turned 3 ;) Things were very tough we were told she had weeks when she was 4 but some how that little of mine pulled through and she is soon to turn 7 & they have just removed her Port-a-cath as she has grown too big for it and is now in remission after close to 4 years of treatment. Here I am praying & hoping that little Page is able to find the strength to do the same. No child deserves to go through the suffering that these kids go through but the one saving grace is kids are resilient (?sp) to the pain. My prayers & thoughts go out to Page & her family and all the other little children suffering when they should be out playing