raz

And Don Burke. Soon the only thing we'll be able to buy is an inbred mongrel from a puppy farm...

OMG the voice of reason. Good on you, oakway .

It's a solution to ensuring the chain from aus docks to approved feedlots to approved abbatoirs. The europeans are using the system - I think this should be mandatory in Aus anyway.

If only it were that easy. Why isnt it that easy? They're all tagged anyway, now they just get tagged with an electronic tracking device as well. If it wasnt easy the Europeans wouldnt have implemented the system.

As far as I'm aware, yes they do. The cruelty shown in the doco is also anti halal.

Pretty easy to get it working and quite quickly. They stick the Aus inspectors in there (for the remaining 100,000 cattle) that report to the minister, get the training happening and threaten the slaughtermen that if they're reported as breaching the animal welfare regulations they lose their $150 they get paid a month and wont be able to feed their families. Their Ag Minister needs to hit the slaughtermen where it hurts. It's not like they can walk away and get a job as a doctor. Meanwhile the australians help bring the substandard abbatoirs up to speed. What I gather is to date there hasnt been enough communication between the two industries and the Ag Minister wasnt enforcing the regulations. I wouldnt be surprised if he didnt even have indonesian inspectors in there reporting back to him.

I've seen something worse in Indo but it wasnt in an abbatoir and the govt has been trying to stop it for decades. I cant see how in a doco it's not going to be suitable for an Aus audience though. Sounds like a furphy to me. Who are you saying is not in agreement, woof? I may have missed something but I've pretty much been glued to various newspapers on this issue. Their Ag Minister has already agreed to the proposals. He just now has to convince the powers to be to remove the prohibition on the import of stun guns.

Dont you think that if they saw worse they would have shown the footage or atleast given a commentary? I was involved with animal lib many years ago and they always drag out that line to get people wondering just how much worse it could have been. I have no doubt there are truths and falsehoods on both sides but the focus now should be on fixing the problem rather than on what coulda shoulda woulda been. They're not going to stop eating mutton and beef so we're better off getting on with it and helping them clean up their act.

There's a great letter from a guy in the industry that Bruno posted in the other thread in OT.

The anti sentiment is from city people. Coincidentally, after my last post I found that the animal libber Lyn White is running a poll at the moment and 47% so far are voting no to compo. Not sure what they expect farmers who go bankrupt over this to do. Doesnt make sense - prevent animal cruelty but let farmers and their families starve to death or commit suicide like a lot of farmers were doing when they lost their livelihoods during the drought? Ridiculous.

Yep I understand what you're saying. On the issue of compensation, though, I've heard plenty of people saying - why should the tax payer compensate the farmers when 'they knew' what was happening. That'll be another interesting debate when/if it happens. Wait for people to forget about the animal welfare issue when they get hit in the pocket. That's human nature, woof. As people have said in this thread, it's not all black and white. It's all a bit quiet at the moment - wait to see what happens next week.

Huh? It's not for Aus farmers to enact change in Indonesia. It's for our Ag Minister to negotiate which is currently happening. Mari, Pangestu, Indonesia's trade minister, said on Wednesday that Jakarta is holding talks with Canberra to resolve the issue as soon as possible. "The ministry of agriculture and Animal Husbandry has already co-ordinated with the Australian side to solve the problem, especially on standards of abattoirs," Pangestu said. full article in Aljazeera and you can find plenty more articles in Fairfax and Reuters

Yep, and whatever the meat vendor doesnt sell during the day is cooked and sold in a warung by his wife or by street hawkers who are probably his kids who have never been to school http://globedrifters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GD-Indonesian-Street-Food1.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CpmMIUHuN0U/RjglpEH_pRI/AAAAAAAAADU/pnwgaLdmSlU/s320/P1010093.JPG People have got to lose the idea of what we have in Australia - it's not like the average Indonesian can jump in their BMW and drive to the nearest fancy refrigerated butcher shop for a kilo of scotch fillet to drive home and pack away in the freezer.

This is the most common type of butcher shop you'll see in Indonesia http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1890/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1890-39057.jpg edit to add - I dont know where that photo was taken (just grabbed it off google images to show what a third world butcher shop in asia looks like) Add to that there are approx 18,000 islands spanning nealy 6,oookm so frozen/chilled meat isnt going to get too far. I dont know how many ports the australians go to but I thought I heard on one news report they can only go to ports in sumatra and java. Not sure - maybe someone in the thread involved with the industry can answer that

How bizarre. Last time I checked, humans were still a part of the animal kingdom; I dont agree with or defend cruelty to any sentient being, that includes statements to let the Indonesians starve, or even better, take the asylum seekers back out into the ocean and drop a bomb on them which was the least intelligent thing I've ever seen on this forum. And obviously you've done the usual and just skimmed through an entire thread in order to make your snipes at Islamics. I have at no stage defended the cruelty but said I fully support retaining the Australian influence in Indonesia for the purposes of supervision, training, equipment and inspection to bring all abbatoirs up to world accepted standards. But that's too much, isnt it - you're a total xenophobe so you dont want money spent there at all. I dont know how on earth you think we can improve their standards if we're not spending money. And look in your own backyard before you criticise people from other countries for animal cruelty. There's plenty of it here as well.

promoting starving in a thread about preventing cruelty? That's pretty funny, tracie, and pretty typical of the usual xenophobic islam bashing comments you come out with whenever you pop up, but I atleast agree with your comment that those who didnt take action earlier need to be held accountable. What i find quite interesting that people are making spiteful comments about the Indonesians and what they do to animals but it wasnt that long ago that feral goat racing in Australia was regarded as great entertainment.

She could say the sky is blue and she'd still get a peep out of me, Poods. I'll smack my head into a brick wall before I ever agree with a thing she says, such is my loathing for her Lol I agree with her on a couple of things, doesn't mean everything else she says isn't completely bonkers, after all even a broken clock's right twice a day :D This clock is broken every minute of the day as far as I'm concerned, Woofy. She's a mental case “I plan to send my liver somewhere in France, to protest foie gras (liver pate) ... I plan to have handbags made from my skin ... and an umbrella stand made from my seat.” — PETA President Ingrid Newkirk speaking to onMilwaukee.com, Feb 2005 eta sorry I stuffed the quote

She could say the sky is blue and she'd still get a peep out of me, Poods. I'll smack my head into a brick wall before I ever agree with a thing she says, such is my loathing for her

Oh great we need her interfering like we need a hole in the head

Yep Woofy. That's what this is all about. Flippin votes. In the meantime the poor bloody farmers and the Indonesians and the tax payers will suffer for the slack bloody behaviour of the people in charge who didnt try to fix the bloody problem to start with. Whatever takes the attention off the carbon tax issue, though.

Thanks Diva and yep, I understand your pov as well and agree with it. I'm just really bloody angry this wasnt sorted earlier. I've seen animals killed in Indo and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to suddenly work our that this sort of stuff happens. Ofcourse they all knew it was going on but for Ludwig to suddenly turn around and screw the farmers and our ability to make changes after sitting on this for months is bloody disgusting

Yep. The animal libbers really shot themselves in the foot on this one.

I'm not in a panic, woofy. I'm just really angry about it all.

What has really peed me off is that Ludwig knew about this months ago so why didnt he follow it up rather than screw the industry. What a twit. All of this screaming about the Australian tax payer supplying equipment and training. We'll be paying a hell of a lot more subsidising bankrupt farmers while losing half our industry now.

A hell of a lot more than that are going to suffer if the Indos stick to their plan of a self sufficient industry within 3 and the Aussies arent in there making the proposed changes in that time