dancinbcs

It is a legal requirement for breeders in NSW to microchip their puppies BEFORE they are sold. Other than that I agree with Ellz. The breeder must be able to provide copies of the DNA results for the parents if they claim the puppies are normal/clear for any condition by parentage. If they have applied for a prefix then the puppies can still be registered when it comes through but that may take some time. Breeders need to submit 10 options for their prefix and if they are all rejected they have to keep submitting names until they get one. You usually get one of the first list but sometimes it can take 3 or 4 submissions before a prefix is granted. Each one taking several weeks. I would be a bit worried about why they waited until the bitch was due to whelp before applying for a prefix. It doesn't indicate someone that has put a lot of thought into breeding a litter. There is also the possibility that they have not applied for a prefix and are lying to you, so I would not be handing over any money until the puppies are registered.

Great idea. I hope one of the local breeders can help you out. Alas, I am in Sydney or I too would have offered to help.

There was certainly never any "Border Collie wars" here in Australia. I believe there was and still is a lot of drama in the USA, if that is what you are refering to but it was never an issue here. 25 years ago they weren't even showing Borders in the USA. 25 years ago in the UK they were just starting to show dogs from among their working dogs and here in Australia our show and working dogs often still came from the same litters. Even 15 years ago it was still quite common and now we still have breeders in rural areas that show their dogs and sell the others to local farmers as working dogs. Before agility and dog sports became popular most Australian Borders where used for work unless someone wanted a show dog. There were very few sold as pets. My foundation bitch came from breeders that supplied their local sheep farming community with dogs. From each litter one or two with the best conformation would be successfully shown but the rest went for work on sheep stations. They were not specifially trying to breed 3 sheep trial dogs, but general farm dogs because that is what the farmers wanted. The Aussie Shepherds we have here where imported as show dogs about 15 years ago so are still are fairly new breed. Most members on the public still don't know that they exist.

Thanks Benshiva and I agree with your suggestion that for a beginner in agility and obedience a show line Border Collie would be ideal. They are happy to live in suburbia, easy to train and generally more laid back than those bred purely for work or agility. There are exceptions so an experienced breeder that knows how to pick temperament and ability on their puppies would be a good idea. You can get all in the one litter, some that want to herd, some that are going to be easy to train in sports and some that just want to be lap dogs if they get half a chance. Matching the puppy to right home is what it is all about. BTW my comments about Borders being smarter and easier to train than Aussies come from friends that have owned and trained both and always comment on this difference. Some have stuck with Aussies and others have returned to Borders but they all seem to have the same opinion that Borders are generally smarter and easier to train. There are some really smart Aussies but there are also some really thick ones. With Borders there is less variance from the smartest to not so smart.

There is so much missinformation in this post I can not let it go. And I cannot let that sort of arrogant reply go either. Your experience is obviously with current working line Borders, mine is with a variety of show, agility, obedience and some working dogs. There was no misinformation in my post but my observations over many years and comments from experienced trainers who have owned and trained both breeds in a variety of disiplines. I was refering to the origins of the breeds not what they are used for today and no one can deny that Borders originated as sheep dogs in the UK, while Aussies where developed in th USA as multi purpose herders. Our show, obedience and agility line Borders in Australia are descended from sheep dogs. Nowhere did I mention dogs going off course in agility but if they do it can be because the handler gave them the wrong cue or because the dog thought of a more interesting way to do it. I was actually refering to obedience trials where Borders often anticipate or do things a bit different to break up the boredom. It is usually the dogs most likely to score the highest that do it. They can be brilliant or bomb out spectacularly, but are less likely to be consistently average. When working stock they follow direction perfectly but heeling around an obedience ring can be boring and this leads to them doing their own thing at times. All the Aussies I know seem to be less likely than the Borders to be on their toes ready for action. I have seen plenty of Borders bounce around, bark and even nip their owners clothes when working in agility, especially those from agility lines, but have never seen an Aussie do it. Maybe some do it and I just haven't seen them because there are not nearly as many competing and the ones I do know that compete are from Aussie show lines. Some Borders are steady, deliberate and work with stealth as they should, but many are not when it comes to agility. Temperaments and energy levels vary a lot in individual dogs of both breeds, from lounge lizards to hyper but overall I see more easy going Aussies and friends that have owned both have commented that Aussies live life at a slower pace than the Borders.

I have many friends who have owned trained, trialled and shown both. Physically Aussies are bigger, heavier with less body length, all of which is a disadvantage in top level agility. The really serious agility enthusiasts breed Borders to be even lighter in bone and body than the show dogs to get an advantage in agility. It depends if you want to compete just for titles or if you really want to win trials. Borders are smarter and learn faster (not just my opinion, but from several very experienced trainers of both) but are more likely to think up their own variations to exercises when they get bored so can be more challenging to trial unless you have a really good sense of humour. Aussies can be a bit calmer and slower, except when they play with each other. Aussies like to play kamakaze and run into each other at full pelt. It is never a good idea to run Borders and Aussies together because the Borders do not appreciate Aussie games. Aussies can be more forceful because they are a multi purpose herder for both cattle and sheep while Borders are primarily sheep dogs. Both breeds should be happy, friendly, confident, outgoing and biddable. Coats are similar with the Aussies being a lttle shorter and denser and the Border more likely to have longer feathering. Health wise both should be hip and elbow scored and DNA tested for CEA. Borders need DNA tests for CL and TNS while Aussies need annual eye tests for several other conditions. I think Aussies may also have a couple of other health issues that need to be watched for bit cannot remember what they are at present. Males of either breed are basically one person dogs, with the females a bit more likely to spread their affection around. My male Borders have always been totally devoted to me and like to be as close to me as possible at all times. Dominant and submissive dogs can be found in both breeds. I know and admire many lovely Aussies but they just don't compare to Borders for devotion and intelligence.

It is a reasonably common problem and I picked it in one of mine because I had read about in horses. The symptoms are the same, no matter what species. My girl had one litter before developing the problem and we were unable to get another litter from her. The ovarian cysts didn't show on an ultrasound but my suspicions were confirmed when I had her spayed.

Some dogs just hate being picked up. It is a very intimidating thing to do to a dog. He may put up with it from someone he respects for now but it could develop into an issue with everyone in future. If he really doesn't like it don't do it. The other problem you have is not knowing his background or parents temperaments. Some dogs just growl or bite if you do something they don't like and are simply not suitable with kids. Training can only achieve so much but the dog's basic nature will always be there. That is why it is always advised to at least see the mum if you are buying a puppy and you have kids. I have a dog I bred that doesn't know the meaning of aggression, so would not dream of growling or biting but he has always hated being picked up and struggles as if he has grown 8 legs if I try to lift him. He has always been like that even as a little baby and once he was too big for me to lift easily I had to give away the idea of trying to get him used to it. The problem escalated once he was big enough to jump onto his grooming table and now he is just too big to struggle with. He prefers get onto the grooming table by himself and doesn't want any help. Strangely he loves to jump on my lap for a cuddle and will happily let strangers hug and cuddle him, but just panics if all his feet leave whatever surface he is on. Nothing bad ever happened to him, it is just a quirk within this dog.

Border Collies usually have all eyes opened by 10 days.

Don't do any gardening with the dog around. They like to copy what their owner is doing. Years ago a friends GSD watched her cutting some of her prize roses to put in a vase. An hour later she went out and the dog had picked the rest of the roses. He had never shown any interest in the flowers until he saw her cutting them.

I would be making the couch and chairs out of bounds for now. Get him his own bed of some sort to go in the room he prefers to be in and insist he sleep on that. Otherwise shut him out of that room. BTW my puppies have always slept int he laundry with no problems but I do have a coated breed. A 12 week old puppy shouldn't be getting to choose where he sleeps. Until he is 100% obedient he has not earnt that right. Once you can invite him up on the couch and he will get down immediately when told by any member of the family, he has earnt the right to get up there. If you are worried about him thinking he ranks above the girls, getting him off the furniture is the best place to start. Try to get hold of the book "Think Dog" by John Fisher. It is a fantastic guide to establishing rank in a non confrontational way.

Hate to have to suggest this, but get him checked for Lymphoma. Panting and restlessness during the night was the only symptom my dog had for a couple of weeks, until his lymph glands came up.

The shelters need to be more upfront and tell the people surrendering the dog if it will most likely or definitely be euthanased. The one I worked for didn't but when I took the job on reception, I told the owners the truth. The boss (that I detested) couldn't see the point in telling them, but even though it didn't make much difference at the time I hoped at least some of them would think before they got another dog. It did constantly amaze me that people could be told "all we can do is put the dog down this afternoon" and they would say ok and sign the papers with no hesitation and not even seem the slightest bit upset. I also told people that rang for us to take litters of puppies, if the puppies would be homed or pts. Anything under 8 weeks was pts and we only ever kept one litter at a time of med-large puppies, so if any others came in they would also be pts the same day. The saddest case was a woman on a pension who took in a pregnant stray cattle cross and didn't know she could have her speyed while pregnant. The bitch had 10 puppies by c-section and the stupid vet never even suggested that they should not revive the puppies. No he worked hard and revived them all. The bitch was very ill and had no milk so this poor good samaritan, tube fed round the clock, got them weaned and finally when they were 5 weeks old she ran out of money to feed them. She had no homes lined up and rang to see if we could take the litter. I told her firstly that we were full and the shelter policy was that puppies had to be 8 weeks so they were ready to desex and home, but even then I couldn't guarantee that they would not be pts. She intended to keep the mother dog and have her desexed but I have no idea what she ended up doing with the babies as she never came in with them. She was going to try to borrow some more money from family because she couldn't handle having the puppies pts after all she had put in to raise them. Most shelters are just not set up for puppy rearing so they are not the answer for an unwanted litter that should never have been born.

Sorry but i dont agree with this, i believe MOST dogs deserve a second chance and even a third or fourth esp when their rehoming is of no fault of their own, the way i read this is you are saying it is better to take a dog into your vets and have it pts than take it to a shelter where it could be rehomed? even if the chances are slim i would hope ppl would make the shelter choice. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Unless the dog has a perfect temperament, is appealing, and therefore highly likely to find a new home, the owners should take responsibility and have the dog pts themselves rather than put it in a shelter where the staff will have to do just that. If that was the only option maybe people would think more before taking on a dog that doesn't suit them or not socialising their dog properly. As has already been pointed out the chances of a large crossbreed being rehomed is just about nil so why would you put one in a shelter? The reality is MOST dogs in this category will not be wanted by anyone else. I feel sorry for the owners in this case for having to get rid of the dog due to illness but when you take on that sort of dog you need to be prepared for the fact that if you cannot keep it for any reason it will probably end up having to be euthanased. Unless you have a back-up plan in case of something like this happening, you don't get a dog in the first place. This is a very strong point in favour of always buying a purebred dog from a reputable breeder, who will take the dog back if necessary. Purebreds of any size also have a much better chance of finding a new home unless they are really old. With old dogs I really do think it is kinder to pts rather than put them in a shelter, because they are not going to find homes either.

Well said Souff. The reality is that dogs like that have almost no chance of being re-homed. There is simply no demand for them and if owners surrender them to a shelter there is a very high chance that they will be pts the same day. The shelter staff have to make many tough decisions and the only large crossbreds that are likely to find a home are those with perfect temperaments and behaviour. Being in a shelter can definitely freak some dogs out so temperament is very hard to assess in that environment. As the op said "they tried to rehome him themselves but no one was interested". The huge majority of people looking for a second hand crossbred dog want a little dog or something like a spaniel or lab cross. Happy, friendly, well socialised, non aggressive dogs, small to medium size are what most people are looking for. It is also a numbers game. When I worked for a shelter the most numerous surrenders at that time were cattle, shepherd and bull terrier crosses. You might realistically have a chance of homing one of each of those crosses in a week. The problem was that you would have 10 or more of each surrendered each week. So the lucky few would be chosen to go up for adoption and all the others had to be pts. Nearly all the little dogs were rehomed very quickly as were the very few purebreds that came in. Most people live in a fantasy land where they believe that there are good homes waiting for the dogs they no longer want. Sadly, it is just a fantasy. If you cannot keep a dog you should find it a new home or stay with it as it is pts, not surrender it to a shelter where it will be scared in it's final days or hours. Shelters should really be for true emergencies where an owner becomes ill, or dies and there is no one to take or make arrangements for the dog. Owners need to think very carefully before they get a dog and work out what will happen in the event that they cannot keep it. They need to be realistic about how "appealing" their dog is likely to be to others if it needs to be re-homed. If the dog is not the appealing type then they have to know that if they cannot keep it then the alternative is to have it pts.

Like a lot of breeds the Border Collie standard is a mess with colours. The problem is it was written by people who didn't understand colour genetics and many breeders still don't understand them either. Getting everyone to agree to including all genetically possible colours has proved impossible. The dilute gene does not seem to cause skin problems in BCs like it does in some other breeds. At least the Border Collie standard does NOT have prescribed markings. The requirement for white to not predominate is a precaution against deafness that is more common in dogs that are mostly white. I am totally mystified when breeders of some breeds becomes so pedantic about markings. How the hell do markings make any difference to a dog performing any task. With the ears, the set is important because it is affected by the head shape but the ear carriage really shouldn't matter. Our standard used to say semi-erect or rose, but at some time the rose disappeared. There was a vote to return it to the standard but no idea where that is up to at the moment. Unfortunately a lot of judges take semi-erect to mean tipped ears like a Collie, but semi-erect is actually anything from slightly lifted at the base to just tipped and anything in between. Other than that there is nothing cosmetic in the standard. Some of the current dead straight, profuse, spitz like coats seen in the ring, are not in fact correct to the standard but a current fashion that judges seem to prefer. Traditionally BCs have a mixture of flat to wavy coats that should fit the outline of the dog. Substance wise, there is a wide variety that are correct to the standard. So long as they are neither heavy or fine, they fit the breed standard. All the other points of conformation should lead to a dog that has the ability to move with stealth and a minimum lift of the feet. This is only possible with correct angulation, body length and balance, all of which are important for a working dog. There are many different types of Border Collie, depending on the breeders priority and there is quite a bit of cross over in what types can perform what tasks. There are show types, agility types and working types but most of the soundly constructed ones do actually conform to the most important parts of the standard that describes a pretty basic medium size dog. The variations are mostly in the things not specified in the standard like amount of substance and bone, leg length to body depth ratio and coat length.

Bitter Bite or Bitter Apple spray from a pet supply store deters most dogs.

Bascially, destructive dogs are born that way and they can be in the same litter as a perfect angel of a puppy that never destroys a thing. A lot of it is just luck of the draw. The start of the behaviour can usually be seen by about 6-7 weeks in a puppy that is always busy and is already digging and chewing more than it's littermates. Having said that though there are ways to reduce the amount of destruction. Some tips for raising puppies. 1. Never give a puppy access to anywhere until it earns the priviledge. Keep it securely confined where it cannot do any damage unless it has your undivided attention so it doesn't develop a habit of destroying things. The same principle applies to housetraining. Don't let the puppy make a mistake. Don't take your eyes off it even for a second until you know it can be trusted 100%. Every mistake it makes is a positive re-enforcement to do that again. 2. Provide lots of toys that the puppy can destroy and teach it the difference. Praise lavishly when puppy is playing with or destroying his own possessions and give a meaningful growl if he even looks like tasting anything else. Just providing toys is not enough. You must actively teach the difference of what is allowed and what is not. My two angels (ages 6 and 9 yrs) that never destroy anything and have the run of the house know that if Ihand them something they can tear it up. Today I unpacked some new cookware and gave them two cardboard disks that they happily shredded but they wouldn't dream of touching any other cardboard item in the house. 3. Teach puppies self control. Just like toddlers, puppies find controlling their own actions difficult. Do lots of practice on stay exercises, especially lying still on their side until you release them, to teach calmness. Remember to praise when the puppy is just lying calmly in the house. Many owners are quick to reprimand for wrong behaviour but forget to praise the desired behaviour. Praise desirable behaviour even if you didn't ask for it. 4. Teach the command "leave" with toys to start with and progress to food, until the dog will spit out anything in it's mouth. The leave command can also be used if you catch the dog about to touch something it shouldn't. 5. Provide chronic chewers with tough things to chew. Large bones, a chunk of safe firewood, etc. I had one large piece of firewood that was chewed by several generations until it was reduced by about half and looked more like petrified wood. 6. Provide plenty of exercise and training time. A tired puppy is a good puppy.

Oh isnt it just!!! Ours isnt connected to zap anymore but they still wont touch it. In a few weeks I need to section the dogs off the main grass yard to try and salvage the grass and all im going to do is set it up around the parts i dont want them on and voila, dog free zone! Best money ever spent! Electric fencing can work wonders but with Border Collies it has to be on all the time. They learn very quickly to listen for the hum that indicates it is turned on. If there is no hum they simply charge through. It is quite amusing to watch them standing stock still very close to the tape, listening. To me Champa sounds like he needs a secure run with an e-collar to stop the howling. Intensive obedience training would proabably also help as well because he doesn't seem to have any understanding of boundaries. Unfortunately at 8 he may be a bit old for this to work. One thing I have found with my destructive ones in the past was that they needed a large basket of toys they could destroy. From 8 weeks they learn that touching something they shouldn't will get them growled at, and choosing something from their toys is praised. My first destructive dog destroyed or put teeth marks in everything she came in contact with. By the time I had the second one I had learnt about the toy basket. He still couldn't be trusted unsupervised inside the house for a couple of years but that toy basket saved my sanity. The dog was very high drive and channeling that drive into competitive obedience was the other thing that saved him. These were Border Collies though and from experience I know Labs can be a whole different matter all together. They don't have the reputation of the most destructive breed for nothing. God only knows how they manage to train guide dogs to not eat the owners house.

If you have succesfully shown and trialled dogs in the past and intend to show and trial again in the future, then that is a very different scenario to the person who buys a pure bred main registered bitch or two, adds a "stud dog", gets a prefix and believes that makes them a breeder, without ever learning about the breed. Breeders do not need to show all the time and there is nothing wrong with taking several years off from the show scene when life gets in the way of showing. You also don't need to actually go to shows yourself if you can place dogs in show homes that will campaign them for you. The breeders I don't believe should be breeding are the ones that don't understand conformation, have never competed with their dogs or have given it a go and not been able to win anything because the dogs are not good enough. I have seen people with clearly inferior pet quality dogs try showing then instead of getting better dogs they decide to breed with what they have. Of all the Border Collie breeders listed on DOL, only about a third of them should be breeding. The rest in my opinion are registered puppy producers with no idea of what the breed should be, that have never been to a show and don't prove their dogs in work or performance.

If you have succesfully shown and trialled dogs in the past and intend to show and trial again in the future, then that is a very different scenario to the person who buys a pure bred main registered bitch or two, adds a "stud dog", gets a prefix and believes that makes them a breeder, without ever learning about the breed. Breeders do not need to show all the time and there is nothing wrong with taking several years off from the show scene when life gets in the way of showing. You also don't need to actually go to shows yourself if you can place dogs in show homes that will campaign them for you. The breeders I don't believe should be breeding are the ones that don't understand conformation, have never competed with their dogs or have given it a go and not been able to win anything because the dogs are not good enough. I have seen people with clearly inferior pet quality dogs try showing then instead of getting better dogs they decide to breed with what they have. Of all the Border Collie breeders listed on DOL, only about a third of them should be breeding. The rest in my opinion are registered puppy producers with no idea of what the breed should be, that have never been to a show and don't prove their dogs in work or performance.

Great post. I personally don't know of any serious show, performance or working dog breeder who does not do all this. The majority of these dogs are reared in optimum conditions or they have no hope of developing into quality show specimens or performing the work they were bred for. It is the breeders that don't show, trial or work their dogs in any field that are more likely to raise puppies in sub-standard conditions. They tend to breed many more litters with no other goal than selling puppies. More puppies means less choice of buyers and dogs more likley to end up in rescue. The issue should not be show vs work or show vs performance, but breeding dogs for a reason vs breeding just to produce puppies.

A correct size kennel placed as close to the back door as possible should keep him warm enough. Use old towels, blankets, hession bags or straw for bedding so it doesn't matter how destructive he is with it. Op shops are often a good source of cheap dog bedding. Most dogs will not use a kennel unless it is right next to the back door. Turn it to avoid any wind entering it and it shoud be nice and warm once he curls up inside.

Dogs should only be bred for a purpose and breeding stock should be proven for that purpose. If they are bred for work, dog sports, obedience, etc then showing is not a priority and I don't think anyone would say that serious work and performance breeders are BYB or puppy farmers. Their dogs still have to be sound in conformation to perform their required tasks, so assessment in the showring is not necessary. If you are not just breeding for performance then yes, proving your dogs in the showring is a must. Not necessarily every dog and not necessarily showing forever, but I think breeders should prove they know what they are doing by being able to produce at least some successful show dogs. Otherwise you are just breeding to produce pet puppies, not to improve the breed. There are far too many breeders in my breed that do all the health tests, etc but have no idea about conformation or performance and just breed anything to anything to produce pretty puppies. Usually in the so called "rare colours". Some of the dogs they breed with are nowhere near the quality of dogs we sell as pets, but they have no idea about type, soundness or quality and breed generation after generation of sub-standard dogs.

There are always loose dogs around my way or dogs that are in their yards with the gates open and charge out when you walk past. These days they are nearly always entire male, Staffy, Pitbull, Amstaff types or crosses. As a result I do not walk my dogs in the street but drive 10-15 min to a large park where I can see in all directions and walk them there. These dogs are usually not strays but the owners just don't bother to keep them in. Since the BSL came in at least the numbers roaming the streets have decreased. Over the years every loose dog I have ever encountered has attacked whatever dogs I was walking so I now carry a stock whip as a deterent and crack it if I see a dog loose, long before gets anywhere near mine. I have had dogs attacked by 2 Boxers, several GSDs, a Rotti, a Bull Terrier, a SBT and a couple of crossbreds but have managed to deter a couple of Dobes and several Husky types with the stock whip. It doesn't seem to matter if they are with an owner or not. The sight of dogs is enough for many to charge in for attack as soon as they spot my dogs. These days I just don't trust any off lead dog I do not know. If a dog is being walked off lead but is obviously focused on it's owner I just give them some space and don't worry too much but these are usually the exception rather than the rule.