frank

i wish not to be a member of this forum any more . moderators please ban my computor so i cant log on . i havent seen so much hatred on the net, and am surprised the mods allow such derogatory remarks . i will try and pm A MODERATOR TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN . BYE . , AND SOME OF YOU GUYS , CAN HAVE A DRINK. and emicon clapping signs as to a job well done . some of you people really deserve to go to HELL . THINK WHAT YOU WILL . BUT DONT WISH HARM ON ME OR MY KIDS I WOULD NEVER WISH HARM TO CHILDREN OR ANYBODY FOR THAT MATTER . AND IF I MET SOME OF YOU IN THE STREET. THEN I WOULD QUITEN YOU UP FOR A FEW DAYS. AND GIVE YOUR FAMILY . SOME PEACE AND QUIET. SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE JUST PURE EVIL.

Oh, FFS if you have no clue how to teach your dogs how can your children know anything about training a dog. Do you want to set them up to get bitten again? Despite people explaining in fine detail that it is unfair to the dog to tie it up when the kids are playing you're still doing it. Sadly you seem to think a kid with a loud voice and spiderman tactics will cut it? You haven't taken any advice given in this thread on board. Is it stupidity or stubborness? You can make excuses for the way this dog has been treated by calling it a freak of nature but I can tell you right now that no one in their right mind believes you. This dog is a product of it's lack of proper treatment and training. sorry . i was just trying to be nice and reply to some advice offered .

thanks for that . i will pass this onto them . the eldest is not having a problem with this . and i think the younger one will benifit from your advice . as i noted yesterday . he can wake up the whole neighbourhood with his spiderman tactics.

The majority of Cockers LOVE families especially kids. I feel sad for Bailey to not be able to play with the kids at all because of the way he's been brought up.......... where has this been stated . he walks to school with the kids everyday . and gets dozens of pats from other kids . he walks home with them too, a couple of times a week. he gets tied up for about 10 minutes to 1/2 hour . a couple of times a week . when we cant supervise them. the rest of the tiome it is about 3 to 4 hous play per day. with the kids . and with us , when the kids arent home. can you see the little twists that are happening in this thread . and the picture being painted here . this isnt a lame thread it is serious , and i appreciate your responses . but to say that you aZre all concerned and are by no means criticising me , but showing compassion . give me a break . belive me i'm not trying to twist it round . but . the dog is doing ok thanks . so are we . but i wont rule out 100 % that this wont take a turn for the worse . however i seem to be the only one here showing any hope .

well good points there . the kids have been instructed by me not to play rough with him. they tie him up when they play cricket etc etc. without supervision . he seems to be learning that this is ok, as i have been training himm with treats , and his own play time . combined with some all in family play. my wife has no issue with him. he is the perfect dog with her . my only issue with her is that she has allowed unsupervised play with our kids . but that has changed under my instructions . without kids , there would be no problem at all. and to be honest i would probably play rougher then i do or have with him as i did with all my other dogs . but not with this one .

easier said than done JED . we all love the dog . my kids write letters to him, and poems about him. letters to god about how happy he makes them . he hasn't done anything more than a bit of rough play . from over excitement with the kids . which i have been onto . and changed . the mower incident was my fault . the message i get here is that i'm a terrible owner , and the dog has become a freak of nature . a bit harsh , dont you think.

Frank, A normal, well balanced and well trained dog - regardless of breed - DOES NOT BITE THEIR OWNER. A dog that bites its owner DOES NOT HAVE ANY TRUST of that owner. You knew that the incident about Bailey biting you would get a reaction because YOU know it is NOT normal, if it was, you would not be concerned about our reaction. If you keep on the path you are on your poor pup will get worse and god knows what damage he will do. He is confused, scared and is lacking proper training. This is not us giving opinion, this is a warning. Please PLEASE take the advice you have been told here on board - go and see K9 Force, just to confirm that you think you are doing the right thing - honestly, what damage can it do? still not convinced. that this isn't just a growing issue. however i wont rule out seeing K9. if he bites again i will discuss it with my wife . however i feel it is up to us wether he bites or ( snaps) agiain . not the dogs .

why is it that everyone thinks i have a thing against this dog, and am being cruel to him. for a start i am learning more about training the dog then the dog having a problem . i dont really see this dog as having a problem. hes responses and actions to situation . has been entirely normal. ( breed specific) people who are comenting about no such thing as breed specific . i have been given evidence to the contrary. kaywoman . bailey reminds me of orson your gold dog in the 3rd video. i didnt have to add the previous info about him biting me . because i knew it would stir up some emotion here . i didnt even really scorn or disciplin thim for what he had done . because it was quick and startled him that i wasn't playing . his action was a repulse one. and yes it wasnt a savage bite, or growl , or snare , but a slow grab with i little pressure . do you not think the dog is learning just as i am . this dog gets nursed to sleep in my arms , my wifes arms , and our kids arms for goodness sake. and as far as me being his owner , well i'm not sure about that one . i think my wife is . she feeds him grooms him baths him etc etc etc . as for my german shephard of the past , he used to wrestle me from pupy hood right through to adult hood and old age . trust is a big thing . the dog has to trust you and you have to trust it . it doesnt happen over night. and the best intentions are aspired to here . at no time has this dog . our dog bailey been given the cruel treatment. a lot of change has taken place since then . he's temperament is getting more tolerant . but one thing is sure . never trust a dog . it is a form of respect to an animal, not to trust too much. more so when they are pups.

The dog has bitten it's owner now. For a dog to bite it's owner, deliberately- you must realise that this is BAD news :rolleyes: . Totally unacceptable. If he will bite you, he will bite anyone. Though you did antagonise the dog. It's not a good idea to grab a dog, pick them up and "scorn them". It's bullying, not training, not leadership. What are you going to do now? I'M GETTING TO KNOW THE DOG . I REALISE IT WAS MY FAULT. . I WILL NOT INTIMIDATE THE DOG IN THAT WAY . I BELIEVE PROGRESS is being made. . of course i would exect this not to continue . but i'm pretty sure . if he is attacked he will bite in self defence . involuntarily. not attack . i will spend more time training . if i was to play tug of war with him and touch him with other hand . he will snap. . of course if i see a savage trait. i will definately seek help. he isnt showing signs of nervousness. or fear. i think it is more . breed temperament . than bad training, or the nature of the dog . if anyone disagrees please let me know . i have seen a similar type attitude with kaywoman 68 's cocker videos .

well so far the family is happy. i'm happy, the dog is happy, and the rabbit is happy. i have learnt alot about cocker hereditory charactoristics . and have had a lot of pms from great people offering help. advice and sympathetic ears. if you stir up a cocker . or dont accept it's charactor. you can be fooled into thinking a dog is a dog. breeds are differant . and need to be respected in differant ways . we are learning to live accordingly. on a side note . last week bailey bit me . i was changing the oil of my mower, in the garage . i drained the dirty black oil, into a bucket, and put a rag in the bucket of black oil also , when i turned my back . bailey pulled the rag out . and started running around the garage . with the oil soaked rag in his mouth, dripping it all over the garage floor . right next to our 60k GT FALCON . :rolleyes: after a quick panic and chase . i grabbed him and picked him up . scorning him . he turned around and bit me . breaking the skin on my hand . after thinking for a bit . i put my hand in front of his snout . he smelt my blood and started shaking . with his tail between his legs . i ignored him for the rest of the night. even though i continued working . he sat next to me . unsure of his approval. but he has been fine since. dont know if it was a learning curve for him . i guess i've just ensured many many more replies to this thread now.

AGREED.

R.I.P. MAX . 15 and 1/2 years long for a dog, yet goes quick for us .

OK YA GOT ME , I'M BACK . over a couple of weeks i have been spending some time trying to train BAILEY. so far i have managed to train him not to run away if he gets an oportunity to escape the back gates , and gets out the front, if he got out , he would see it as a game of chase, he now knows it isn't on. and instead of running untill caught and given a smack, he got a quick chase, then i give up , and walk around the back and kick a ball with dissinterest in him, he came back voluntarilly, , the next time i caught him , but did not punish him with a smack, i just let him go and said come bailey, and walked out the back and played kicks, he followed. after this he will now come out the front , if allowed , and only to gret you, and then follow thewm back, and be given a treat, for being good. and then given a treat, for not going out when the gate was purposely left open, now a stern no , will prompt him not to go out at all, and he gets encouragement and a treat for being good. i have acheived this in around 2 weeks . he now avoids trying to escape the yard when someone opends the gate. ( to get out beforew closing it again).. also he has been beinbg put on a leadbefore the kids start playing cricket, or chasings etc. he didnt like it at 1st, but i sat with him and patted him and gave him a treat. then after the kids stop. off the lead for some dog play, such as fetch the ball./ after a while , and a few treats, he now 1/2 accepts that when he is on a lead the kids will play , and it is not his turn, although still excited he is starting to accept , that he is being good , for being on a lead . and gets a treat and some attention if he sits and doesnt bark, thats when he gets a treat. and his attention is diverted elsewhere . besides the kids playing he gets treats whilest on the lead and told he is a good boy. when he is allowed to play with the kids . if he starts to get to rough . he is put back on the lead. he is learning through this procedure that rough play , isn't on . , and that he is not automatically in on play time . but he gets his own playtime , and treats with praise. he is now at the point where if he is left on a lead , and gets frustratedwhile the kids are playing a simple "NO BAILEY" prompts him to stop and sit still. this has been done in stages using praise . treats and voice tone. . it is still early and there is more to be done but seems to be working . now if thew dog was developing an attack symptom , with a growl or snare , then that would've been differant . but at no time was he aggressive with his snapping. if so then perhaps i would of immediately sort proffessional training with grim hope , i have only seem moderate success with dogs such as these, and have seen dogs put down with that temperament. BAILEY SHOWED NO SIGNS OF THAT TEMPERAMENT AT ALL. he just reached adolescence and needed to be led appropriately. out of 8 pages here only about 5 posts actually had some good advice. the reast wasnt far short of ridicule . . it was amazing to see people ridiculing each other after i'd left this thread . to some degree , very funny . i got many laughs out of it . right now the dog is tied up outside because the rabbit is learning that the back yard is a safe place. he cant escape ( anyway there are no gaps big enough. BAILEY IS ON A LEAD LEARNING NOT TO ATTACK THE RABBIT. after 1 hour they are now lyeing together under the clothesline. soon they will be able to be let loose with eachother . without a game of chase.

THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL POST IN THIS THREAD . i think quite a few of you need to seek counsilling for some of the insults, and replies you have posted here . i'd suggest . some of you need to spend a lot less time on the computor here. K9 THANKYOU FOR YOUR POST HERE . just to let the members know . he wasnt approached or asked anything by me here . and if he/she was . then thankyou to the person who did ask him if at all . if there is one thing i have learnt here . it is that i now have someone to seek paid professional advice from . at my own decision and choice if i so decide . most of the rest of you with your insults . can go jump. apoligies to any who genuinly offered advice as there only agenda . insults and gang ups. like i said . put me on your ignore list . to evryone else here . see you in off topic / or the cocker section/grey hound section/ or friendly chat . cheers .

apparantely he was runnigng again with his sister and tried to jump over the swing chair , he tripped and fell to the ground . giving the dog the oportunity to pounce and bite . well mouth i think . a bite would cause more harm , my daughter had to pull the dog off . i am now fearfull . that i cannot control the situation as i am not always home .

judging by peoples reaction here , and there seems to be a bit of anger present . perhaps the best thing is for the dog to go, before serious injury occurs.

thanks for all the replies guys . the time for training ( obediance is now ) i'm bessoted . he has done it again. he bit my son again . this time on the face . ( no broken skin) but none the less . it's not on and has now quickly become a problem . it's the same boy. he doesnt do it with my daughter . so i will ask my wife to get involved with this . as i cant do it with working full time on weekends and rotating shifts . :D . if we are advised for him to go. i'll offer him here . for someone with other dogs and no children . for free . i guess i'll contact the breeder. we brought a cocker because of thier temperament.

i dont see anything wrong with training a dog. or a trained dog . however . none of my pets have been professionally trained . nor have they been the same . 2 of them have been ideal, both differant breeds . 1 kelpy, 1 GS. I HAD A BULLMASTIFF X G S . WHEN WE 1ST MARRIED, adored the dog . had no kids , unfortunately one day i came home to see some young children on the fence throwing rocks at him and scourning him . after that he growled when ever he seen little people . that dog died because of me . ( hit by A CAR without a lead when i was walking him , some dogs broke out of there own backyards , attacked and chased him onto the road and head on into a car . he died in my arms with his blood literally on my hands . i never got over that, but still i was worried about us having kids with this dog , after that we got JESSIE . our purebred male german shepherd ( my soul pet) always on a lead , loyal and polite to all; right through life, playfull and considerate, and protective , with no training.THIS DOG WAS MORE TRUST WORTHY WITH KIDS THAN ANY ADULT. till death of natural causes at age 10 1/2 yrs RIP. ALWAYS HAD DOGS SINCE I WAS BORN . NONE OF THEM WERE EVER trained professionally , whilst i am not against this . i dont see it as essential. Bailey is coming along with little problems like this due to immaturity and excitement. he still gets his walk every day by my wife . she feeds him too. i massage groom and discipline him, and give him snacks . i praise him , and also play rough with him . i do not allow him to be rough with anyone else , ever. he is treated like he is at the bottom of the rank. i think he does challange this rank. i will not trust him. i now know that you cannot trust a dog . the 2 ideal dogs in the past, were naturally rare. i dont wish to spend time training this dog professionally . but if he becomes uncontrollabe then i most definately will, however . in my limited judgement . i think he is just being a NORMAL DOG. and has a dogs life . your replies have tought me a few things here , but not that i am making major errors with the dog . obviously the 1st dog jake ( that got killed ) was my fault and back then i was not fit to own a pet . but not any more . i nor my family do not FEAR bailey. untill then we will not sort after proffessional help. i just want him as a normal pet , not a master race of animal.

I WILL KEEP A MATURE head about this.i dont believe the dog is a threat to any member of the family. i do think he challenges my son because he is the smallest and loudest in the family. he is still allowed to play with the kids . but the kids wont be having running races without an adult present . and the dog will be kept away from rough play by either being with me or my wife . he plays ball well. and chase well. and soccer well. on this day though as brayden ( my son) was running past him he bit him on the arm . we gave the dog a smack on the bum and said naughty. then the kids raced again , this time he bit brayden on the back . then he was put inot the shed ( where his bed is , and the door was closed . he new he was in trouble and started howling . now after he was let out , by all of us he rejoined us in the back yard for non rough play ( a pat and a walk) . no obedience training . and wont be getting any , unless this becomes a continued problem . we assume the dog will outgrow it . and so will our son. till then no running races or rough play in the back yard without adult supervision . our german shephard would've let any member of the family kill it without even a growl . i guess we were lucky with this temperament . which was learned over time . bailey will play as rough as anyone does with him . i guess he needs to learn not to be the instigator. he enjoys the kids, and the family.

thanks for all the replies guys . thanks for the link isavas. it is similar to this . but only to my son . i do remember some months ago . my son was cruel and kicked bailey. i think he is now a teenager and is standing up for himself and playing rough. so what i will do is keep the dog out of childrens play from now on . thanks guys .

i dont know what the problem is with bailey our cockerspanial. he has become competitive with outr youngest child . 7 year old boy. when the kids play out the back . if they have a race . the dog runs in and bites our son . not the girl 9. the other thing is if we are on the ground . he jumps on you in a playfull way , but starts growling as if chalenging you. when he bit my son . not savageingly but a bite none the less. i picked him up and scorned him and he was trying to bite me !!! . i locked him in the shed . for about 15 minutes . and let the kids play again . this caused him to howl. after we let himout . we tied him up on a lead so he couldnt bite again . he new he was in trouble . . this is going to have to be the case from now on. he is 10 months old . other than this he is fine . and he likes to play with our son . he doesnt dislike him , but i dont understand the biting . ???? if our son was younger , he wouldn't be able to tolerate this . and the dog would have to go . but because the dog is relatively small . and not savagely attacking . we can put up with cautionry . adult supervision and tie up the dog . any one know whats going on here . he is a purebred . , he is an outdoor dog . he is loved and part of the family, we take him for walks and he is always involved in play, he is desexed as well. and he is very much like a child . but wehave to snap him out of this . as now we will tie him up whenever other kids come over to play .

thanks guys . i'm dissapointed in my syndicate of 9 people . it wasnt my idea . however . now i am one of 2 people who seem involved , the others havent lifted a finger. i really dont want this dog as a pet . before she even races. never follow someone elses idea. we''ll have to see how this one pans out . if all expires i will offer her back to the breeder for free. as she kept 5 of the litter . and they are all already racing and all 5 are proving well. one of the litter was purchased from a wealthy japanese business men who had a special interest in the littters parents. anyhow . hope it goes well . i'll keep my fingers crossed and keep pushing forward . the dog deserves a go.

our dog is now 20 months old . it hasnt raced yet, it is on a pre race training program . for another 3 weeks . the trainer has not kept in contact with us . or kept us informed on the dog . he took the naming papers, hasn't registered the dog. nor let us know when it's racing will start. we have kept payments up to date. the person in the syndicate that knows him. asked him to keep us all updated on the plan . the next day he rang and suggested we get a new trainer. very disheartening . apparentely the dog is doing everything it should is showing and is showing ( cant think of the word) . feel let down . anyone know a good trainer . or suggest what to do now . ??????????

i think it is normal for a dog . they are the ultimate oportunists. my cockerspanial bailey was desexed 1 month ago. i was doing weights out the back the other day i was lying on my back with the dumbells on either side of my chest , i was lifting them up together over my chest, when bailey jumps up , puts hes 2 paws on my chin and starts humping my scalp. frustrating when your 1/2 way through a set. he was tied to the clothes line for the rest of my workout.

i use sentinal for bailey , my cocker, and it is all that is needed. i bought a pack of 6 tabs . for large breed dogs , and give him 1/2 tab per month, which lasts 12 months. i recommend sentinal spectrum . as it works and , bailey hasnt had any side effects at all. it's a one in all treatment.