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Purebred working BCs are still used as are working kelpies. There would be very very few ANKC BCs working on real properties. Ok last dumb question for the year, do working BC's look the same as ANKC BC's?

Sorry to the OP, I was going to ask this in a new thread but thought it may be ok in this one. Are many purebred Border Collies still used as working dogs these days? This is real question from someone that has no idea. In my travels I can't seem to recall seeing any on farms etc.

In very simple terms each person is responsible for keeping their dogs in their yard and other dogs out of their yard. If everyone kept by this mantra then we wouldn't even be discussing this issue. My next door neighbour is currently talking about getting a mature dog. We get all extremely well and we regard each other as friends. He is going to make sure his dog can't get near ours and I am going to make sure mine can't get near his. Not because of any agression or issues but because it is the right thing to do. I wouldn't care if a Lion moved in next door, but I sure as hell would be making sure it can't get into my yard, likewise if a Maltese moved in. No difference except maybe fence height! ha ha

slightly off topic , I own two well adusted Staffords and they are the only dogs around us that don't bark at other dogs and fence fight. So much so that we have a dog behind us that goes nuts all the time at my two and the two tough staffords just ignore it. Staffords are no different to any other breed of dog if they are brought up well they are fine, but just like any other dog if they are not brought up well you have issues. I was even asked why I would own such a breed!! What made this even funnier was at the time my two were on a lead sitting calmly while the guys small fluffies (three of them) set out to attack my dogs and were going crazy. So my point is don't judge all dogs by one experience with the breed, I am sorry to say however that it is unfortunate that staffords as a breed seem to attract more than their share of idiot owners (from my own experience)

http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/regret...1124-187ho.html Worth a 5 min read if you want to kill some time

And I have to say, good job everyone!

what about a griffon?

Question for Lili and Steve,(and others if they know) How do these types of dogs go if they need to be rehomed at a mature age? Does it take a while for trust to develop or does the dog (I know each dog would be different but as a general rule) just know that they need to trust their new owner? And would the different breeds see any change as a opportunity to move up pack order due to their strong personalities.

At 16 weeks I wouldn't really be too worried about walking her, she's only a baby. Do some focus work with her, marker (clicker) training, play games, build her confidence, allow her to drag a leash around the back yard then start teaching her loose leash walking under low distraction (your yard and those 3 houses each way are more than fine for that). Take her out and expose her to new things - school, kids, dogs, weird looking people in hats. Sit in front of a shop or on a street corner or in the park, click and treat her (or just praise and pat her) for focussing on you/ignoring scary things (you can drive to where-ever you wish to go, you don't have to drag her there on a leash). Keep up your obedience training and practice NILIF too - and (while some people may not agree with me) I think crate training helps build confidence and security too. Walking will happen in time but seriously, at 16 weeks just enjoy her ;) Good point!

Did they add a check chain to the advice? Why do so many folk ascribe every damn behaviour to the dog trying to put one over on the handler? Dogs that are overwhelmed by situations can shut down. I have a dog like this. I also had one of the "just give her to me and I'll sort it" type of instructors early on. So he dragged my dog and I didn't know better then or I'd have stopped it. She never budged.. never. That dog lacked confidence. By building her confidence in ME, we got past it. I made sure that all her experiences were positive, that my responses to her behaviour were never worse than neutral and I worked hard at making her comfortable. And it worked. I would agree with you PF, with the exception of some dogs. Rosie would try and pull the wool over my OH eyes when she would stop walking but wouldn't when she was with me. So I got the OH to give her a slight drag and it worked. Rosie doesn't pull that stunt now. But to the orginal poster this is not something to do unless you are absolute certain that she is just not scared or lacks confidence. You will do far more damage long term if you do that. And also Rosie was 6 months old at the time.

ReadySetGo is talking about my two muts and their K9 leads. I absolutely love them for a two main reasons, 1/ They are very comfortable to hold 2/ They just will not break, full stop. The only negative I can think off is they may be too heavy for puppies or smaller breeds. I think Readysetgo made that comment a while back when she used to walk one of mine as a pup with K9 lead. The weight tends to pull the dog to one side slightly if you dont hold the lead correctly. You can get them direct from the usa if you like, similar leashes are available at leerburg.com. You can also google amish leather leashes and you will find quite a few places selling them. You can also get the matching leather collars if you like the look of the old school dog collars. EDIT for clarity

http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/...00602-wvym.html

How absolutely awesome! can I ask what sort of business it is? Also those of you that take your dogs to work do you find a downside is that if you have to leave them home some days they are don't cope too well being without you? http://www.smh.com.au/national/whos-that-d...90828-f2ip.html

I work in a dog friendly office we have up to 7 dogs some days Most days Amstaff Maltese Griffin Gorden Setter Poodle cross breed Occasionally pug westie boxer small mixed breed dog nice to see the dogs around the office. All well behaved. They get free rein around the office.

I am the same, much prefer a dog over 5 months. Both my current two were 'late' to my family , one at 5 months and one at 9 months

I get between my dogs and the oncoming dog, and then let loose. As a rule I wear shoes whenever I walk my two. And I don't make apologies for it. I even had one lady tear strips off me in public after I tried to kick her dog after it rushed at my two after dark with a menacing growl. She carried on like a pork chop for so long and loud that people came out onto their balcony's and were just laughing at her. My two were calm behind me and her dog was going nuts. I just asked her if she had finished her rant as I would like to continue my walk, that just incensed her further. Told me she would call the police as I had attacked her dog..... :-) Then I stupidly said if I had actually landed any of my kicks her dog would be a lot quieter than it currently was and that I was more than happy to save her the money and call the police on her behalf from my phone....... Again that was just throwing petrol onto the fire....

i'll go even further a say 90% of Australians would have no idea what an APBT looks like and 99% of people have probably never met one. (and that 67.5% of all stats are made up on the spot )

No it won't. Not as long as certain individuals keep breeding for fighting, dog aggression and protection of their property (ie: their Hash stash/crop and VB empties collection out the backyard). APBT owners in certain areas ARE the breeds worst advocates as they are less intelligent than their dogs yet retain the ability to speak and use their opposable thumbs. Until deadshits stop owning and breeding them.. BSL will live long and prosper.. particularly in certain council areas in Sydney. I love the breed and agree with your statement Cordelia. Sometimes you need to state the non pc view that most people are thinking but just don't want to say out loud. BSL is here to stay it just needs to be managed better. It will never be totally gone, it will however evolve over time to be sometimes worse and sometimes better that the current set up.

Don't leave it where they can get it. As the owner of two destructo muts, what PF said about sums it up. My two have a hard plastic addition. So any spade handles, plastic buckets, sprinklers, hose ends, ping pong balls are all fair game! On the plus side they tend to stay away from shoes and the hose. So it is not all bad,

BSL has to be fought on the one irrefutable fact that BSL breed discussions tend to ignore. It doesn't work. It has never worked. Targetting "dangerous breeds" fails to protect community from all dangerous dogs. End of story. I wholeheartedly agree, the only way out I can see is to get some sort of pilot going to actively reduce dog attacks based on owner education (not indiscriminate killing of dogs deemed to be dangerous based on breed), to provide actual proof that this is how dog attacks can be reduced. I just don't understand why lawmakers cannot see this. I guess it is a question of votes, the quick fix answer. I think this relates to something bigger than the Amstaff/Pitbull debate (no offence to owners of either breed intended), while everyone bickers about the fact their breed of choice should be saved, no progress is going to be made. I would like to see dog attacks reduced (irrespective of BSL), getting something going that really worked woudl benefit everyone - the victims and the dogs. ETA horrible spelling. Because most non dog owning people want to see an end to the pitbull. Those who doubt my comment go and randomly find 10 people you do not know and ask their opinion on a whether pit bulls should be banned. Part of the issue is a bad media wrap and opinions turning into fact due to the number of times a person hears it. A lot of people I talk to have never even seen or met an Amstaff or an APBT and still think they should be banned. The best thing any owner can do is become an ambassador for your breed, get the dog out and about meeting people and try to change opinions from at the ground level. It will take a brave (read: unusual) politician to try and change BSL if s/he even has the slightest thought that a bull breed may attack a child. At the very next dog attack the politician faces having his name dragged through mud as the person responsible for abolishing BSL which led to the attack. In very simple terms BSL is well and truely in the too hard basket to be changed in a positive way, however politicians can get cheap votes by toughening it up. There is just no incentive for any member of govt. (including councils) to remove BSL. It needs to be changed at the ground level by public support and education. Which quite frankly is not currently working, the message of deed over breed is just not getting out there. Just my view. Roo Edit for clarity

You really think that having a piece of paper is going to save dogs? Maybe not but having papers is better than having nothing. At the bare minimum it will save any confusion as to what breed the dog is, which by reading the above judgement was most of the case.

Seriously PF who would own a whippet? really! Pull yourself together and get a Cannonball stafford!

thanks Sway, you are the best! :D

I used to have a lab and I still love them as a breed, but they are certainly not the dog that a lot newbies think they are. I know of a couple of labs around where the families were totally unaware of the activity level and demands of a young lab. IMO labs suffer the same issue as Staffords in some regards as they seem to be the default breed for a lot of families whereas they just don't suit everyone. If I had to pick two breeds that should be the fall back for most families they would be the pointer and visla. Both labs and staffords would be in the top 10 but not near the top. Just my view.

Good call Sammy. 100% agree