silvertravis

I totally understand why your friend won't give lesson - we no longer help people either, except for those who buy puppies from us and live close enough - simply as your friend would know, to truly train a dog for work in the early stages the dog needs to be worked four to five times per week and twice a day during that period. I have a pup with me at the moment we are trianing - her owners are a five hour drive away, however, they have left the pup with us for 10 to 12 months so she can be fully trained for paddock work - not everyone is willing to do this, it is the best option though if you can't get access to a trainer on a regular basis ) Good luck to your friend I hope she can find someone to help.

Hi Tia - the only person I know down Albury way is Gordon McMaster Wyreema Kelpie Stud, Weir Park Narrandera NSW 2700 Ph 02 6959 3310, Fax 02 6959 3301. I don't know if he would help?

Hi Kavik, Workshop is Saturday 12th May - would love to see you if you can make it. Don't make the mistake of comparing Borders to Kelpies - two different breeds for two different jobs. Borders will also take more training at an early age, I have seen dozens of Kelpies ruined by workers trying to screw them down to early in life - I am sure Kaos is just keen, the more he is exposed to sheep you will lose this frantic behaviour. I am slowly turning to the darkside - I have two more border pups on on order one is an aussie bred pup from Dodge/Tungali lines and the other pup from imported Irish/Scottish lines - .

How is Kaos going - what have you been up to with him - could you send me some photos?? I have two half sisters to him at home (same sire different mother) at the moment, one my husband has kept and the other I am trial training for Mary Mc - also training Ted with Bryone who is a full brother so its nice to be able to keep an eye on the litter. We are doing a workshop in May - I know Victoria is a long way from you, however, we would love to see you both and make sure your on the right track regarding your training. And don't stress about him being over keen - Jim tells me he was very impressed with what he saw of the dog - and that is praise from a very well respected Kelpie man.

They don't know 'wrong' from 'right', or even understand those concepts. Can you back this up a bit? I maybe misreading what you've read and have gotten a bit confused. IMO dogs don't understand abstract concepts like something being morally wrong, or morally right. Unlike humans, they don't feel guilty for doing things that are morally wrong, or feel smug or righteous for doing things that are morally right. :D They do things because they find them rewarding or not rewarding (either physically or emotionally). Not because they think something is the morally right thing to do. Their brains just aren't capable of thinking that way. Your dog does what he does either because he is genetically programmed to do it (e.g eat, mate), or because he has learned that it will be rewarding (either emotionally rewarding, or physically rewarding). He sits because he has learned that sitting on command is somehow rewarding (results in praise, love, food, or escaping punishment), and he is genetically programmed to seek these rewards. If that seems overly cynical, remember humans are the same. We all are programmed to seek reward, whether this is emotional reward like companionship and affection, or physical reward like food or money. No matter how much you love your family, you wouln't obey them unconditionally without some form of reward or acknowledgement (even if the reward is a simple smile and hug, or social acceptance). Your dog is similar. Just my cynical 2 cents. On a slightly different subject - has anyone ever thought about how do dog recognise their own breed - we just rescued a Border and we have one other boder living with us - all the other dogs are Kelpies (and one silver poodle) - now the rescue border is desperate to make friends with the other border and not at all interested in the kelpies. When we owned Irish Setters they were the same - always recognised their own breed. I find it very interesting. Sidoney - I like your ideas the way dogs love, and that most importantly they are dogs and we should not in my view degrade them with associating other ugly human emotions to them.

Sparty - we may have to cancel tomorrow night as the forecast is 37 - to hot for dogs, sheep and humans. Perhaps move to Thursday I will call you from work tomorrow. Regards, Denise

Hi Perr's mum, June is a busy month as we have three sheep trials at Deniliquin (June long weekend) followed by Echuca and our own club Cressy in late June (believe it starts on the 21st) So we won't be holding a Field Trial that month, however, there will be one scheduled in July - not sure of the date as yet. Regards, Denise

I have a few I am not using and your welcome to have them. I can give them to Clover and she can take them to the Ballarat Club - I also have a Flyball Harness by Black Dog that would fit a Kelpie size dog, its never been used, so again if anyone wants it let me know and I will give to Clover to pass on. Regards, Denise Ohh me me!! Have pmd you! Sorry all Flyball Harness is being posted on Monday to a loving home who will give it lots of work - I still have a few clickers about if anyone wants them - I am happy to put them in a post pack. Regards, Denise

Hi Sparty, Yes, Bodie can come over also - we have to get you guys ready for the assessment and trial. I am off to Port Fairy Three Sheep next weekend. So next Saturday afternoon would be OK and perhaps one evening during the week - Byron often comes over with his puppy for some work on a Tuesday and Thursday - so it would have to be a different day. Today is nice and cool - however, Glenn has been away with the CFA on containment lines re the fires, he only got home on Friday so I think he wants to go out for some cake, coffee and a movie this afternoon. Will call you and confirm - maybe late as soon as he gets back from the CFA shed this morning - maybe late afternoon around 5pm if that suits?? And I don't want any payment - just happy to see you guys go well will be payment enough. Regards, Denise

I have a few I am not using and your welcome to have them. I can give them to Clover and she can take them to the Ballarat Club - I also have a Flyball Harness by Black Dog that would fit a Kelpie size dog, its never been used, so again if anyone wants it let me know and I will give to Clover to pass on. Regards, Denise

Oh no! So it's not that easy? I may have to take you up on that offer then... Hi Clover, Can you ring me or email me and we can sort out a time to get Elvis started again and your new girl - this weekend is suppose to be cooler, so was thinking we may be able to fit something in on Sat or Sun early evening (or morning depending on the weather). We don't have that many weeks left to get him up to speed so best start his trianing sooner than later :cool:) Thanks, Denise

Hi Clover, Let me know when you would like to come over and we can make some arrangements. I am training three young pups at the moment, my hubbies new Kelpie pup (Katie) - her litter brother who is with a stock and station agent living in Bannockburn and their litter sister is coming back to live with us for a few months for training as Mary has not got enough spare time to put into her with the drought etc - and I have a new border collie coming, a young started dog from the Dodges (hopefully) - so its very busy training time at the moment, however, your more then welcome to join us. Some week nights after work is OK during summer and late afternoon (early evening) on weekends is OK - we will just have to make the time. Come winter the course at Cressy is usually set up (three sheep) - so I can make arrangements with the club and we can also go over there for some trianing. Denise

Clover - you can always come over to Teesdale for a few lessons leading up to the trial - not a problem. And come along to the BBQ and the mock trial - the more you do the better. And Elvis is a nice dog, he isn't going to do anything silly. Plus we will be holding one trial at Cressy per month for 2007 (except in June as we have the three sheep trial on) - so look at all the trialling and all that experience you can fit in so close to home ) We are all now doing ISDS Drives with our dogs (as in the open level a 60m Drive and 60m Cross Drive is required) - so we can start to teach Elvis to drive )

Cressy is about 30 minutes from Teesdale - there is a road that cuts across from Ballarat, and brings you out on the Hamilton Highway, just before the Railway Line. Take the left turn at the railway line, follow that road and you will see the sign for the grounds (opposite the pub) - I am not sure how long it would take - at a guess I would say an hour. Clover has been to Cressy, so she would know how long it takes. WE are having an information afternoon/BBQ on the 26th January commencing at 4pm - at Teesdale (we may move it to Cressy if we get to many people) - if you would like to attend please email me direct - see letter below: I am writing to you on behalf of the Working Sheep Dog Field Trial Society of Australia Inc to invite you to an information session on Friday, 26th January 2007, commencing at 4pm. The Society is also looking for experienced workers who would consider joining our judge’s ranks and becoming an Elite Level Judge. The Society has been established to provide sheep dogs and their owners with an alternative trialling format to those currently available in Australia. Our trials are weekend based and offer a graded system so that dogs and handlers can move through the levels, without the necessity of winning a trial to progress. We are a National organisation with State representatives in NSW/ACT, QLD, WA and TAS who will organise trials in each of these states during 2007. All of the State representatives are members of the Committee. The Society has its own Liability Insurance. The Society is a democratic organisation and as with any club the committee is elected by the members and can only act on motions which have the majority vote of the Society’s current actively trialling financial members (please see the constitution for further details). The Committee only has the power to administer the day to day financial and administration running of the Society; it cannot make decisions or implement/changes to constitution or trialling rules. To ensure that we do not burn-out our Judges, a judge will only be required to judge one class per trial, be it Staters, Novice, Open or Elite. This will allow the judge to enter the trial in the classes he/she is not judging. The format chosen by the Society will also allow us to rotate the trial sheep and lessen the number required for trials as the Open & Elite Levels will be run on a Saturday with the Starters and Novice Levels run on a Sunday, thus the sheep from the Saturday will be re-used for the lower classes on the Sunday. The Society’s first trials will be held at Cressy, Victoria on the 4th and 11th March 2007 with dog assessment days to be held on the 3rd and 10th March. We plan to hold a ‘mock’ trial and training day prior to this for all interested parties and prospective judges (date to be advised). An afternoon BBQ and information evening will be held on Friday 26th January 2007, at the above address, commencing at 4pm. If you are interested in the Society or becoming a Judge, then please joint us at the BBQ and information session (for catering numbers could you please return the form below - partners are welcome). Regards, Denise Agnew WSDFTSA Inc Victorian Representative and Treasurer I ------------------------------------------------------, will be attending the WSDFTSA Inc, BBQ on the 26th January 2007, commencing at 4pm.

Congratulations on your pass. I believe Greg Campbell has (is?) worked with some people from the Geelong Obedience Club, I believe he held a work day at his property for them, and hase done some private training with a few people from the club - he is located at Stieglitz - which is about 30 minutes from the CBD of Geelong. We are hoping that Greg will become a judge for us, he is a good three sheep trialler - and is an retired shearer (among other things). Maybe come out to Cressy on the Saturday and have a look at the assessments and what is happening, if you feel you want to have a go then by all means enter. The assessors are not looking to degrade any dogs or handlers, the Society is all about encouraging people to get out and trial - the assessors will be looking for control of the dog by the handler and no bite, if a dog works his stock with some bark this is also acceptable. Regards, Denise

Dogs don't need to have a trialling number to complete the assessment - just turn up on the day. Once given the OK by the assessors, you can then Join the Society (which from memory I think is $20 per year - don't hold me to that). You will be given a membership number, Elvis will be given a trialling number and then you can compete in the Starters trials. We are looking forward to seeing a few of the Koolies out working, and of course the Borders, Kelpies the working crosses, and anyone other breed who would like to give it a try - the assessment sounds scary, however, we are doing the assessments mostly to ensure that the dogs who wish to compete are under control and most importantly are not biters (as we have to ensure the stock is looked after). If your dog is already competing in Novice Three Sheep, Novice Utility or has qualified in the ANKC Advanced A course (I am not good on ANKC levels, so whatever the top level is for ANKC Advanced A or B????) - these dogs do not have to do the assessment - however, it would be a good idea to turn up for them as you get to have a run and you also get to do the mock trial in the afternoon. The Starters trials are there to encourage competitors and dogs to get involved in the sport of sheep dog trialling - for the cast the sheep will be put into the New Zealand Style Hook Pen, so that every dog is given an equal pick up - we will have the hook pen set up on the Saturday so that the dogs get the idea of coming in under the wire (which is about dog height off the ground) - to move their sheep out - and on there way back to the handler they go through a gap. Then once they have entered the receiving area, the first part of the course is a New Zealand style drive (you walk with the sheep and the idea is not to get in front of the shoulder of the lead sheep - so if the sheep stop you stop etc) - the first obstacle is a gap and you are permitted to walk through this obstacle with your dog. At the second obstacle is the Maltese Cross and you are permitted again to help the dog do the obstacle, however, you cannot walk through this obstacle. After completing the Maltese Cross you then do and Australia three sheep style carry or pull to the pen. At the pen the handler is allowed to again hold their side and help the dog to pen. All the sheep used at the trials will have been worked down for the trial, so they will have seen dogs and have been worked by dogs in small numbers. This is a trial and in this day and age it is not acceptable for people to travel large distances (with the price of petrol, accommodation etc) and be presented with sheep that are not workable - so all of the Society's trials will have sheep that have and are worked by dogs. Each part of the course is judged and scored seperatly, and you will be given the judges scorecard at the end of the trial so you can see where you lost your points and what areas you need to work on - also, we are using a graded system to advance through the levels, so to move from Starters to Novice you need to obtain 55 points from 110 points in three seperate trials. The Novice is basically the same rules as the starters, with the exception that the judges will be looking for a higher standard of work. Open Level is an ISDS drive and cross drive and the Elite level will involve turn backs and shedding (we are still formatting the rules for Elite) Regards, Denise

Why don't you give the assessment a go - you may surprise yourself ) Nothing ventured nothing gained )

Update - as per usual I misprinted the actual name of the society - it is the Working Sheep Dog Field Trial Society of Australia Inc (WSDFTSA) Regards Denise

Hi all, Have received a few phone calls regarding the assessment and Trial dates for Victorian for the Australian Sheepdog Field Trial Society ingaugral trial in March 07 - so have posted to the Forum as requested. All the forms, courses, rules etc can be downloaded from the files section at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sheepdogtrials_australia/ If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me direct - camping is available at the Cressy grounds - we need to be advised prior to the dates if you wish to camp. (NSW, QLD, WA and TAS will advise their assessment and trial dates early in the new year): Assessment Day Cressy Grounds, Victoria - Saturday 3rd March 2007 (time allowing a mock starters trial will be held in the afternoon) - Cost per assessment is $3 per dog. Inaugral Trial - Cressy Grounds, Victoria (Starters) - Sunday 4th March 2007 (time allowing there will be a demonstration of the open level including ISDS drive in the afternoon) - cost per Starters entry is $7 per dog. To enter the trial oeners/handlers must be a financial member of the Australian Sheepdog Field Trial Society Inc. and dogs must have been issued with a competition number. Assessment Day Cressy Gounds, Victoria- Saturday 10th March 2007 (time allowing a mock starters trial will be held in the afternoon) Cost per assessment is $3 per dog Trial Day (Starters) Cressy Grounds, Victoria - Sunday 11th March 2007 (time allowing there will be a demonstration of the open level including ISDS drive in the afternoon) - cost per Starters entry is $7 per dog. To enter the trial owners/handlers must be a financial member of the Australian Sheepdog Field Trial Society Inc. and dogs must have been issued with a competition number. During the assessment the dog will need to display the following attributes to obtain a pass: •Cast - dogs ability to cast around the sheep (must not split the sheep) •Pull/Draw - dogs ability/willingness to bring the sheep back to the handler •Cover - dogs ability to concentrate and prevent sheep from breaking from the mob •Heading - dog to display desire to work and control the head of the sheep (mob) •Holding - dogs ability to keep mob together as one unit, and to hold sheep quietly in a position as indicated by the handler without applying undue pressure •Obedience - willingness of dog to obey directions from the handler Assessment Course (couse is available for downloading from the yahoo page) oHandler and dog will take up a casting position as directed by the assessors oThe cast length will be 50 metres oNumber of sheep to be worked will be a minimum of 5 oDog will cast around the sheep and stop at the top when in a commanding position. Dog will then lift the sheep in a steady manner and pull\draw down to the handler. oHandler and dog will then proceed to complete the course oThe dog may pull or drive with the handler between obstacles oThe handler may walk through the obstacle with the sheep oThe assessors may not require the handler and dog to complete all three obstacles and will advise. If a handler and dog achieve an assessment ‘Pass’ - on joining the WSDFTSA Inc and paying the appropriate fees – the dog and handler will be eligible to trial at the Starters Level. If a handler and dog are given a ‘Re-Assessment’ the assessors will explain to the handler which areas they believe need to be improved / work-on for the dog to achieve a ‘Pass’.