Arya

For food, try SPAM. My dog loves spam, it is salty and fatty so YUM to them LOL. I used to hate it as a kid so ironic the dog loves it now. But it is soft and quick to swallow so makes ideal in training and a change from sausage. But my dog, personally, prefers an old bit of HOSE as a reward LOL. She will die for that bit of hose at the moment

Thank you KJ. Am trying to find one over Gippsland or outer east to go take a look at but looks like i'm out of luck. Can't get to Haddon this weekend cos of other commitments or I would have made the drive because need to go visit one before I hope to enter next year. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated

Hi, was just wondering, does anyone know where this weekend's VCA State Tracking Trial is being held? I can't find details on the web anywhere, not even at the VCA website! Cheers

Some have mentioned proximity to crowds here for the Royals. How about trying this? Certainly in Vic footy time is in full swing so I go down and train on the local footy oval to one side when the players come to practice in the early evening. It's great, really!!! Nobody objects at all, in fact they are quite interested. There are all ages from younger kids right up to big older teenage early twenty guys and BOY ARE THEY NOISY!!! So you get people shouting, running, balls flying everywhere and hitting metal signs on the sides of the oval. Brilliant distractions! Plus if you stick around the lights come on and you can work under lights. So, this is perfect for those dogs who are a bit nervous around crowds. Great for stays too> Set up on the side of the oval as the guys all jog past. It has been terrific for my dog and may help others who aren't keen on crowds. However... I must say it only works with crowds. Does nothign for a dog who his fearful in the ring of other dogs, judge, steward etc. Seems older dogs have very environment-specific problems and mine will sit in the middle of a footy ground with a crowd but go to pieces in the ring. But for those of you who can do this, it's a great help with distractions :rolleyes:

Sometimes this sort of problem can have a genetic origin. I know of certain lines in dogs where a lot of the dogs are like this. They perceive problems and 'see bogeymen' all of a sudden where there are none that you, I or any other dog would see. With time and patience this can be worked through but the key is gentle, slow, never lose patience, don't try to correct the behaviour in any way. Calm, gentle leadership. My experience of this is that it never seems to go away totally but you can control it to a degree by constant exposure to a lot of different environments and rewarding hugely for calm behaviours will lessen the problem and with time, cover it up. I'm not saying this is the problem with your dog but it is something to bear in mind. Plus, 3 1/2 is not very old for a larger dog. May just be going through that 'fear period' later.

German Shepherds will excel at Obedience, Tracking and some with the right temperament and character, Schutzhund. I do Obedience and have just started Tracking with my GSD girl. She loves them both. Agility good for some shepherds too. Hey, go and check all the dogsports out they are all great fun!

Spotted Devil, I can totally recommend Frankston Dog Obedience Club. Great instructors there who will listen and also let you do your own style of training to a degree. Once you reach a certain standard you can work pretty much as you like in the rings. I go each week, never go in a class, just train my dog to the side of the rings or in the rings. Quite a few of us there trial and we put each other thru the rings or not as suits each person. There are also lots of good distractions for the dog like flyball running at one end and agility over to the side. Really great. It's been great for my dog. Some very very good trainers there too. I wouldn't go anywhere else now. You can be as structured or non-structured as you like within certain rules, really. I would suggest you go and look at Frankston and talk to a few people and see if it suits you. Then go around to a few other clubs and check them out and talk to a few people too. Work out which club suits you from a training pov. I have heard bayside-wise that Mornington is also good and also Hastings. Moorabbin good too but depends on the style of training you are wanting to do. That's why I always say go and look at a whole lot and hey, you can join more than one :D Good luck!

I would go, definitely go!!! If you decide not to compete you can have a great time anyway and meet lots of new people Don't let the weather put you and your pooch off. Just give it a whirl. I do, even though I have mostly unsuccessful days. It's great fun And by the way, GOOD LUCK!!!

I worked as vet nurse for years, yet our vet used to send some people's dogs to amazing elderly chiro man over in Northern Suburbs Melb. This guy is one of natures gifted healers from all accounts. He used to charge some paltry sum like five bucks. I believe he is still practicing. I've never taken my girl to a manipulator/chiro until recently. She has trouble on and off with a muscle in hind leg - that was all, so I thought. This guy I went to was brilliant. He is vet too. He manipulated her back and afterwards, I noticed how much better she ran and jumped even though she hadn't displayed any signs of problem before. I would highly recommend a visit every few months just to make sure all is okay, to someone recommended by other people you know in the dog world

I ask my dog to sit and then swap the object for a small piece of food. So trophy for trophy. I don't have to give food all the time now but she's happy to give it up as has become conditioned in this way. Also, if you are thinking of trialling, save 'out' for play etc. and just use 'give' for the dumbell. Well, that's what I do anyway. :D

This can create a very dangerous situation. The dog may come to think that the discomfort comes from the other dog and "learn" that the other dog can hurt him from a distance. He'll learn to stop the display of aggression but you haven't stopped the aggression from happening, only the display of it. Not always. It depends on how it's done. Take a look at this video and tell me which dog used to be aggressive. One had my Ecollar protocol on crittering http://loucastle.com/critter.htm used on him. That was a couple of years back. Roma has not reverted and last I heard of Simon, he was still leading the good life with his adopted family and has never shown any aggression towards anyone. Thank you Lou, I will check these linsk out. I am always looking for ways to prevent regression. I must say that my girl is a different dog to twelve months ago and this is an ongoing experiment. I've worked with lots of other dogs but never owned one quite like this myself so am learning, learning, learning

Totally agree with you Erny! I often wonder how hard it would be to deal with a dog who does not have such a great drive and in a way, an 'easy' way to capture the dog's attention and desensitise it. Food, I suppose with some dogs, but I wonder if this would really be a strong enough drive. Pack drive too, I guess, might be better. I've just been lucky to find an answer that worked for me

HUGE contratulations. That's fantastic! Well done

I deliberately train in the rain... and hail... and thunderstorm LOL. Who knows what will happen at a trial? Sick of getting my feet wet at the moment though

Hi everyone, I know I'm coming to this thread WAY late but thought you might like to hear a 'good' story I have a GSD bitch who was very very dog aggressive/fear aggressive. Now I've spent a helluva lot of time researching this problem with her and did seek professional advice which was a good help - sadly not K9 as I'm in Vic. But you know, in the end it is genetic mostly with my girl, exacerbated by some bad experiences I could not avoid when she was young(have traced back to the source of the problem in her lines I believe). When you have an eight week old pup sitting under the chair at puppy school growling at other pups who are happily interacting with each other you know you've got a problem, even when you then work like crazy to counteract this. The thing is, I was instructed to use aversive method initially to counteract this problem and then reward for correct behaviour. However, the thing that really helped my girl the most was the style of training I was using with her, which I saw in action with other dogs when I took her for a lesson about her aggression. Yes, I'm going to 'bang on' about drive training again. This just happened to be the thing that worked for her, luckily though of course wouldn't work for all dogs. Building a hugely strong bond with the dog using drive training as part of my armoury, together with kind and gentle but firm discipline/leadership to show the dog that I would let her know if there is a problem. This time last year I could not get the dog near other dogs at club. Now I am trialling her and she still isn't best buddies with all other dogs she meets, especially bitches, but yesterday at club I had her standing in a tight circle with half a dozen other dogs, all facing each other (and some of these dogs she's had stoushes with in the past!), good as gold, her face happily grinning, looking constantly at me as we walked a circle around the back of the dogs. There are lots of ways to help this awful problem but using yourself and finding a key (in my case drive training and a tightly knit bond created with the dog thru play and sensible leadership) other than an aversive seems to me to make more sense. I must say, I have seen some methods where an aversive is used the minute the dog stacks up but no other guidance is given to the dog apart from this. It's just 'do it and you'll get a punishment so don't do it'. In fear aggression is this really correct. I am not keen on this. How does the dog learn, other than through force, that it is not necessary or desirable to exhibit the behaviour? One other comment I have is that I have found that constant exposure and work is necessary to keep the dog exhibiting good behaviour around other dogs. It is never fixed imho. If you stop the work there is a regression to previous behaviour. Good old genetics.

This is great, thanks for the link NW. Just getting right into tracking and enjoy reading stuff like this.

He he , I travel from Phillip Island each week, at least once a week sometimes two or more for different training sessions. I train at Frankston on Sats and then there's trials and then there's FOOS in summer and then there's different trips to KCC etc. Gawd, hope the price of petrol doesn't go up any further LOL.

FOO nights (or in the case of me and my dog should be 'fool nights' LOL) are Friends of Obedience nights. They are trial run-throughs held at KCC Park in the evenings on Tuesdays during daylight savings. They cost (last year) $5 a go and it's really good. Judges and other exprienced triallers who act as judges come and rings are set up and you can do a trial run through in the ring in the class you book. There is a bbq and tea and coffee and it's great fun as well as good practice for the dogs. I went to every one last summer (for all the good it did Tess and me LOL) and loved it. It is very popular though so if you want to go, keep an eye out in VCA mag and book in. You need to book in on a weekly basis, I think. Or say you will be there next week or whatever. The people who go to the trouble of putting it on (Nolene McIllroy and OTEC members) just do a fantastic job. It's well worth supporting as it raises money for OTEC too and new stuff like ring ropes get bought

Thanks Arya - that is an excellent suggestion and funnily enough - we are having difficulty with the 'send out'.... not sure if I can do this exactly as as soon as you throw another toy - he'll drop it! I taught it pretty much the way Jesomil did- although got stuck to move from 'placing' mouth on D/b to 'holding' - the most 'force' I used was to gently hold his mouth shut and reward heavily for it. It hasn't taken me long to get to the full retrieve, but from me being a novice trainer and missing key steps initially - we always seem to hunt up one problem or other. Plus - Leo's attitude is 'if it's dead - why chase it?!" With Kinta i'm teaching as per Jesomil again but with a few 'play retrieves' also to build up the fun and excitement of the object etc LP, don't worry about the dropping at first. Show him the toy, then stick it in your pocket. Send him out to dumbell. Minute he comes back pull out toy and chuck it. So a rhythm gets established, toy, bell, toy, bell. Great fun for the dog. This is not just my idea. Play with dumbell is also advocated by someone I know who has gotten 200pts in the trial ring with more than one of this dogs Also, just another comment... for those whose dogs love to tug and bite on stuff. I have been building drive on the recall by using a bite roll. Set the dog up formally, walk away to required distance. Turn, whip the bite roll out and go crazy. Watch those dogs rocket in!!! Then chuck a formal one in without the BR every now and again. It works. If the dog gets up before you're ready, 'it's groundhog day'. Meaning, they have to wait for the fun as you repeat the whole set up and walk away again. You'd be surprised how quick they learn to sit still and hold themselves in for the chance to rocket down the field at 100 klicks to get that roll! Not for all dogs but for my GSD it's heaven Isn't that what training's about? Not too serious imho!!! The wins will come in the trial ring if the dog loves all aspects of the work and associates it all with good fun and including the thought of play. Just my approach. Dogdude is a great trainer too, I've seen his lovely dog. Just different horses for courses as the saying goes.

Ah, Dogdude, just wait til I see you at FOO nights again!!! LOL. Why does the dog 'have' to retrieve in formal training, pray tell??? The dog should by DYING to retrieve for you, just for the fun of it, in formal training or otherwise imho. And formal training, well, play should be integrated into training at all times imho. Training should be SUPER FUN otherwise you can tell, you can pick the dogs when you watch them work. I will show you what I mean when I see you. Look, I'm not knocking the forced retrieve method as it's one that's been used for years with success, though as you say, there are varying forced retrieve methods. But my dog will shoot out like a rocket and shoot back like a rocket, jam her head up against me with dumbell in her mouth, hand it over and finish beautifully... all because she's been conditioned that it IS a game, it is fun. Play, play, play, I say LOL. BTW, Foo nights are starting up again in October I was told by one of the people running it, so look out in VCA mag for it everyone as it will be advertised again

This is interesting stuff to me as I've just started to teach my girl to track. Heaps of fun! Can recommend it to anyone. Dog absolutely loves it :rolleyes:

I agree, play with the dumbell. I have heard others say keep it for work only and no play. What a disincentive for the dog to do dumbell! Play with it and have some fun. Who cares if they miss the odd formal finish in a trial? Doesn't happen anyway if you're careful and ask for a formal finish now and again. A tip to increase drive to run out and retrieve the dumbell for those who train in play/prey drive: stick your dog's favourite throw toy or ball or hose in your pocket. Throw the dumbell, when dog brings back don't do formal finish, just throw the toy/prey item after taking the dumbell. Keep it informal. This builds drive REALLY fast. Just chuck a formal one in with a nice finish now and again. It's a load of fun for you too :rolleyes:

Good luck BC!!! Let us know how you go I am not going to this one... a bit too far for someone living in Gippsland. Will be at Westernport and Moorabbin the following weekend though. GOOD LUCK! Cross fingers you get your passes :rolleyes:

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard, if that is indeed the truth. This is what annoys me about PETA too. They need to get their heads out of la-la land and back into reality. Obedience... cruel??? Okay, let's ban all working breeds, let's ban all forms of animal training, let's ban all humans lol. This simply cannot be true. And as far as check chains go, let's give some of these people a high drive Mal or GSD on a soft flat collar and let them attempt to deal with it. Idiots. :rolleyes:

Not sure what others have written about this but I believe this is a very wrong misconception about tug. I play tug with my dog all the time and have yet to see her tug something inappropriately, like a child's bum or arm LOL. Tug is life and soul to many dogs and a great way for you to bond with your dog. Tug tug tug, let them win. They will do anything for a tug but do differentiate between what is allowed to tug on and what isn't. If they don't and tug on something inappropriately it is my belief that this would have happened anyway as would more likely be a rank issue. It comes back to the old saying that play/prey drive encourages a dog to be 'vicious'. Rubbish imho Definitely a question to ask Steve Austin!