Arya

Hi everyone, I am having some issues with my dog's stays. Last four trials in Open scores would have been: 191 193 193 (this was generous as my hand signals were crap) 187 But each time we lost out on the stays (well, last two I withdrew her so as not to have a failure) Now don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with this. This is a dog that would not work in the trial ring and would not leave the start post last year (THANKS FOR THE START POST HELP TO PTOLOMY!!!) and NOW, wow, I am so happy with her. On a bad day it's still a pass in the ringwork in Open yet it took me 17 trials to get her Novice title. She did out of sight stays all summer in mock trial situations at KCC Park in Vic each week, no problem. Plus at club. BUT, we had a little issue in which I was at club and she dropped. I went back to sit her up and as I did so, a rotti next to us leapt over and onto her back. The rotti did no damage at all and was over in a second with no trouble but it has made my Tess seem to realise that something *could* happen when I am not there! Now I have joined the rotti club here in Vic and can do their training nights with my GSD as they are open to other dogs and she will do stays in sight not too bad in between all rottis so I believe the issue is more a simple sudden realisation that things can happen rather than the dog incident itself. The dog didn't even growl, just sort of went on her back. It is a friendly dog really. But Tess is nervy and took ages to get her to work in the ring and now stays are wrecked. She whinges and cries as I walk away and runs after me. When I work alone and do stays alone there is no problem. It is the proximity of other dogs. My plan of action: The training I did last time was all alone. I created a kind of 'safety bubble' psychologically with the dog by training her on her target blanket with her target back behind her. Multiple returns and walks away. As didn't have access to a lot of dogs except at club once weekly I trained her in 'higher stress' areas like busy shopping centres tied up of course. All seemed to work. Now? I don't know. I have gone back to basics, repeating this. I am doing stays for her dinner. I am laying a circular track behind the sit stay in training when alone and releasing her to the track (she tracks too and loves it) as a reward after sit stay. I have swapped hand and tell her stay with left hand instead of right. I am doing multiple stays a day but of a necessity alone. I am taking her to KCC Park and doing out of sight stays all around the park (but alone most of the time... wasn't a problem before but obviously is now). It was suggested to me today to rub my hand on the ground in front of her in the downs to leave my scent there and to step sideways a little when I leave her so as not to automatically trigger the heel off response. All good which I will employ! How have others found this sort of problem to fix? Did it take a long time for you? What do you think?

Well, I am getting in here before LP gets back home probably LOL. LEO DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations LP on a fantastic performance for Leo to get his CDX and a nice second place!!! Damn, I bet this means that now I will NEVER get him Seriously though, maybe LP doesn't realise what a great team she and Leo look in the ring. It was my ring and I got to watch 'em go. It was excellent. Three cheers for you! What was your score btw LP as I didn't catch it at the presentations (too busy yelling out title he he). Also Dogdude I'm so sorry I didn't get to catch up with your family or find out how you went as was helping friends and then in the ring myself. I was in the ring last on a warm day and generally have a hoodoo at this grounds. Still did have crappy heeling in the beginning but things picked up for what would have been a nice passing Open score of 187 but withdrew from stays as having issues there at moment so no stays for a couple of trials methinks. BUT THE DAY DEFINITELY BELONGED TO LP AND LEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!

AW, shucks... thanks everybody. :p I can hardly believe it. It was such a relief and so exciting after all this time. To get the two final passes, one after the other I was just over the moon. And Tess was pretty proud of herself too lol. Thanks to everyone for their great wishes. So many people have given advice and help and been SOOO supportive. There were times when I thought about giving up with this dog but seems she has gotten over her nerves and got her act together. Maybe cos she just turned four and figured it was time to stop mucking around LOL. She has slowly got better and I am so proud of her. I am so happy about this but the best thing about trialling is all the friends I've made LP, there is NO WAY we will ever beat Leo or Kinta. LP doesnt' mention here but Leo was very unlucky indeed to miss out. He worked superbly in rotten hot conditions both trials and is a real winner. He is up there with the very best and seeing Kinta at Friends of Obedience, she is EVEN BETTER!!!! So roll on the Easter trials where Leo is sure to get his Open title and do it in style!

Zoom zoom, you are not alone as you can see and I've always worked on the principle that vigilance is the nicest way to deal with this. You can use aversives (Ive seen a video, an old Innotek one where the e-collar use was all wrong anyway) to train not to counter surf but hey, if the opportunity arose and nobody was around, I reckon most would still do it. My girl will not ever food steal if I'm around at home BUT, here is story for you that will make you feel better. I had made caramel slices and took them to family get together. I put about a dozen on coffee table and there were half a dozen left and Tess came up to table and was about to take and my father snatched away. Being paranoid, he insisted her breath had been near them and wouldn't let me put them back out. SO, took them home next day had friend around for coffee. Put them out for her (dog really HADN'T touched them. We moved from chairs to look at something and while attention off, Tess came up and took ONE and nicked off to corner of room. I turned around and saw dog attempting to hide. She only took one and I reckon she thought if she scoffed the lot we'd notice but if she sneaked off with one nobody would be any the wiser. They are cunning when it comes to food, aren't they!! In fact, I bet I made this problem ten times worse and I almost collapsed laughing at the expression on her face when she was sprung. As an aside, where food stealing really comes into its own is at Easter. When working as a vet nurse each Easter we used to see dogs with choc poisoning where they'd raided the Easter booty to be hyper-vigilant around this time

Yup...

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Damn... but I'm glad you were right and I was wrong

DAP was pretty useless for me with my GSD I must say and I worked out it only works for very specific problems from others I've spoken to. This said, I remember you once commenting here to me K9 that you suspected my dog was not nearly as soft and nervy as I thought she was when I was having trouble with her... and you've never even seen the dog but guess what, I discovered you were absolutely dead right!!!!

Rachelle, I am totally with Tony here from the pov that I think your dog is just needing work!!! I am not saying this for sure, you understand, as I have never seen your dog. But here are my suggestions for you to try. I would totally reassess my training strategy. GO HIGH ACTION EVERY DAY!!!! I am serious. And I don't just mean long walks here. I would look at sitting down one night with a pen and paper and making a list of games your dog likes to play. Is she into ball games? Is she into tug games? Is she into going crazy with her doggy friends? Seriously, how much do you play, work with her? When you have your list, make a 'plan of attack' and write it down too. If she is high action, high drive, give her something to think about while you are utilising these abilities. They are ABILITIES NOT LIABILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My advice, from hard won experience, is to look at it like that. Not highly strung - high action superdog!!! Does she like frisbee? Does she like recall games? Incorporate them into more formal training. Get her into a safe park on her own, or in your yard on her own and interact in a high action way with her. Heel her for a few paces, then chuck a ball when she's doing it right. Throw frisbee then ask for recall on the way back. Run with her. All sorts. Teach her Agility stuff if you can. Have her jumping over small hurdles and racing back to you. Have tug of wars with a big piece of rope. Lots of stuff you can do like that will satisfy her need to work and also, calm her right down by satisfying her drive. IF THAT IS THE PROBLEM, THAT IS. It won't hurt to give it a shot though. One thing, I know it is not always convenient work-wise or easy physically for some to do this sort of thing. Easy for me who works for myself to preach but not so easy for some to do. But what do you think? Have you tried this approach? Maybe can you go or do a distance K9 drive course? Good luck

I'll make sure she's there Ptolomy She's looking awesome Arya! I couldn't believe the dog you brought with you last week was the same that I saw you working in the ring last year! I better tell Leo to get his socks into gear - he has some stiff competition coming his way! You should be so proud of her. How is the mat work going btw?! Have you had another go?! I've done a few more run throughs with the gloves - 3/3 each time - even when sending to the furthest one away Now.... all I need to do is find some dogs who will help me distract the feral beryl! ..... Thanks LP it is going to be great! I am so looking forward to this year and us ALL doing well! I am very proud of my girl but she is going to have to be RIGHT ON HER GAME to be up there with Super Leo and Kinta! I just hope we all have great time and get fab scores. The mat work has improved out of sight. Do you know, it was just the distraction thing and proofing as you said it was and also, lack of motivation. I noted this at training at Frankston the other morning too. I have been doing it in crowds down at the Cowes pier and as first exercise in training, with special food treats, extra hose, extra praise, clapping and stuff (must look really strange to passers by ) and the hurdle has gotten smaller and almost gone. She doesn't really check in now, just goes out, checks em out and gets the one back in a hurry so the fun starts. Funny how they get these little humps, even after doing something for ages. Leo is brilliant on the gloves! You must be right about the Agility. I haven't seen a dog just do them without a hitch from scratch, the way Leo does them. They are his specialty LOL. You are right about feral beryl, she is brilliant drive. She is going to be a one to contend with for sure. Maybe FOO solve the distraction issue but hey, Tess was so much worse!!! Any distraction help you want with super wild GSDs racing around any time, let me know LOL.

Aw shucks, thanks Ptolomy And you are right, she has a big smile on her face loves to work. I have to restrain myself from overworking her because as LP will testify, like the Energiser Bunny she wants to keep on going and going! I WILL BE THERE AT THE NATIONALS FOR SURE!!!! I wouldn't miss it for the world and by then will be living about ten mins from KCC Park. Can't wait!!! Would be great to catch up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey thanks Dogdude!!! Yep, we are ready and RARING TO GO!!! I must be the only idiot who has wished away these hols as fast as I can I am looking forward to seeing Oscar and the pup at FOO THat is strange about Open at your club? COP, I train in bits and mix it up to stop the anticipation. She never never knows what is coming up and when she's going to get her reward, this is good otherwise they like to have a sticky beak around as you walk away... or run in too soon etc. etc. well mine used to try it a lot LOL. FOO will be good though for these things. This is why I like going to my club and don't do a formal class myself. We don't really do a formal class there any more for triallers. There are classes up to CCD level basically but a bunch of us just put each other through the rings and help each other, or work in the rings ourselves doing what we like, which gives huge scope for ring practice under conditions where we have flyball and agility on two different sides of the field as well as the non-trialling classes. But no learning work in Open class?

Oh yeah, Ptolomy, note the start post in the background on the bite roll pic. Plenty of games happening around that still LOL

Hi all, just had to stick a few of these braggy training photos up. My girl has taken a huge leap forward and I can't imagine I'll have any trouble in the ring with her this year. She is just working to me any time anywhere and loving every minute of it. I have stuck one of her working on a bite roll too, which she loves and the big problem is getting people to hold it properly as she races towards them LOL! I have included a pic of her resting with her favourite training reward - bit of hose. Thought you might like to see the dog you helped Ptolomy in particular

I totally agree with Tapferhund on this. Don't waste your time going to Wonthaggi. It's an expensive club as clubs go and instruction is very poor from what I have seen and heard. Head out instead to Morwell which I've heard is fantastic. Or Frankston or Berwick, both also fantastic. Actually, I know a lady on the committee of Frankston travels from Mirboo North each week she loves it so much there. So I'd try there Cheers and good luck!!!

Hey, that sounds totally fantastic!!! I actually have been doing a little of this in the ring to increase my girl's enjoyment of heeling and it has gone thru the roof because of it. Sending away in the middle of heeling pattern to jumps. Weavers, around cones, low stuff mixed in with heeling. The dogs really get into it if mine is anything to judge by and would this be a good way to start youngsters off forAgility who are too young to do the big stuff yet? Sounds great!

Well, yes I would mind Katrina. But, first I would actually investigate the sport before I believed any rhetoric someone tried to sell me. I'd find out what the sport was about by contacting the clubs etc. Then I'd know the person was feeding me BS and just dismiss as a bit of a blow-hard who didn't know what they were on about. I agree it's wrong not to be honest. But Sch isn't a sport to enter without investigation, which I guess you could say for any dogsport or any other type of sport too

I am starting up this year to try to get my girl her BH She is so rock solid bomb-proof on things like fireworks but I believe too soft for any of the character/protection work. But I have found she loves the other Sch work and think it will really suit her and complement her ANKC Obedience

I'm with Erny, who cares if people brag about their dogs loudly and unnecessarily. I just switch off when this happens. In saying this, watch out for some photo brags from me coming soon as soon as I work out photo bucket LOL Can someone set me straight here, I thought the Schutzhund 'protection' work is really called Character Work. It is a test of the dog's character/courage rather than teaching to attack or hurt or even, to a degree, protect. That is how I understand it. it's nothing macho or anything silly, it's a sincere test of the dog's courage. Well that's what I thought. If it's Sch. anyway...

Mrs D, here I can help you!!!!!!!!!!!! This is one of my dog's specialty tricks in her tricks show. I would love to figure out how to put it up on YouTube but if you PM me I am happy to send you a short DVD of her little show at some point. Now to teach this trick, start with a shoe box and a piece of rope attached to the shoe box. Start in an open area of your house like living room floor. First, get her to pick the rope up in her mouth. Then mark the behaviour when she gets it correct. Once she is confidently picking it up and holding it in her mouth, with you beside her encourage her to pull it along with you. Reward incremental improvements. If she pulls for half a second and drops it, use your marker (yes and treat is mine but yours might be clicker and treat). Capture the behaviour and expand upon it. Once the dog is pulling a shoe box and string along nicely, swap to one of those little carts you can get from Big W or Kmart or wherever. Now tie the same bit of rope to the handle. Start again, right back at the very beginning with the training. Why teach with shoebox first? NO WHEELS! Wheels turning can be a hell of a distraction in even a slightly prey driven dog. Repeat the teaching which will go quickly. The deal is, the dog already has a foundation in pulling something along and I have found the behaviour is swapped quickly to other objects such as a little red wagon with wheels. Now if you want to you can concurrently as a separate exercise, train the dog to put a toy in the wagon and then pull it along. My dog first places a soft toy in the wagon. Then on the command 'Let's go!' she picks up the string and races along pulling the wagon. Great fun and a huge crowd-pleaser. GOOD LUCK! LET'S KNOW HOW IT GOES!

Tough competition sounds good, doesn't it! The tougher the better. This will make us all work hard and raise our game and it can only be good for the standard at trialling. I really hope we all do well and have terrific performances and make it hard work for the judges to choose. I'm about perfection... wonder if I'll ever get there :D Looking back over the year last year yes, I was totally thrilled to get my girl over a hurdle and get her one pass in Novice but the pass was only 179 and do you know, the thing that I was proudest of was the 194 we blew at Southern. i was really proud of that effort by her in the heeling and that was our best moment in comps of the year, weirdly. Let's hope we all get many more up there this year

Hi again Dogdude, great will look forward to seeing you at FOO LP going too Maybe Oscar is just better with food... after all 199!!!!!!!!!!!!! Geez, must be doing something right LOL. But sure, we can give him a go with hoses and stuff. But sounds like that is just him. But let's try if you want to work him like that :p Even the cat walks all over him Cats smarter than they act... ask mine!!! She is our 'audience' during tricks training LOL. DD, I am zeroing in on EVERY trial I can get to starting with Hastings, then I think it's Southern, then I think it's Warringal. Then the park. I'll have to check. Have to mark up calendar to work out busy schedule with trials, training, each weekend. Only not go to far away like Warnambool this year as tracking will no doubt take me to Ballarat/haddon. This year I am going for broke. LP will tell you, my girl just went right thru UD today, the little so and so, except for long drop stay as we didn't do these. She is just getting her act into gear this year, that's all there is about it. More importantly, so am i!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO BS from anyone or anything this year is my new years resolution In saying this, my girl is really really enjoying her work at the moment. So Right thru march for trials though I do have a tracking qualification test in March I want to try to book into too but that's at KCC Park too. And the Sch BH too but Ob trials first. She is four this year. I want those 190s. I stupidly threw that 194 away at Southern at the end of last year (yeah, literally as me, stupid handler, threw the dumbell so far into the fence there!!!!!!)so not this year. Hey, Easter Ob trials at the park look good. I heard a rumour there might even be camping there. If I haven't moved to Langwarrin before then I do hope that rumor is correct!!! FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dogdude, I taught both. That way I have a choice on the day (when I eventually get there LOL). Pros to broad jump are if you have a dog that finds jumping very appetitive, it can be a great incentive to keep up the fun right to the end of the run through in the ring. For instance, with my girl who loves jumping, at our club fun day she was acting up when doing Open (we did open and ud instead of boring novice since only fun day and could do this) and the broad jump was her best exercise outside of dumbell over the jump, as she loves jumping. However, if your dog is not keen yep, there are so many potential errors. To train the dog to leap straight I used throwing food. I also used a pole with the end closest to me higher. This worked great, tess loves a jumping challenge and relished the chance to jump high and far. So in short, take a look at what your dog likes. if he loves jumping I would teach it too. COP, as others have said it's a great lead in to UD anyway and I taught it anyway. I didn't use a barrier, though do you know Ian Woolard with Keira, the lovely UDX vic dog who comes to FOO? He is very big on using barrier to teach this and described it to me, he also uses a step to teach this, set the dog up behind the step. My choice was to stand right in front of my dog and work my way backward, when she crept forward no reward. When she did it right not only reward marker but good pat on the hips and bum and 'good drop'. With sit, same. Dog got very quickly what was right and what wasn't but the pat and 'good drop'etc. was integral part of explaining to her what was correct.

I've gotta say I did try this, dividing my dog's meal up into portions and feeding her them from various pockets during a training session each morning. It didn't particularly increase her drive to work and made no diff to rest of our training because she already has huge drive to work for a hose but I wanted to see if I could reinforce this. I found other ways that worked better for my dog. BUT, I think you're totally on the right track. You don't want a fat puppy and every time you do this, you are reinforcing who is leader and where the food is coming from and associating the training with something great... food Anyone who thinks this is wrong, imho needs their head read. Look at K9's triangle of temptation. Isn't this just a variant in some ways? Go for it. If it's helping you then GOOD ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Incidentally, I strike a bit of a prob with tracking as I have taught tracking with food in footstep and go thru a lot of food every second morning. Had to get creative with feeding habits to make sure I didn't get a fattie either LOL.

Oh.... but when I say responded beautifully to Flinks' methods, that DIDN'T include kicking the dog when it was in drive or standing on its tail to prove a point that she is focussed and in drive!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That on the DVD didn't really seem necessary. We could see the dog was in drive. Did you see this Dogdude? I know they were tough dogs, specially the Czech ones but really...

You know, I'm thinking here that one of the keys to drive training is to teach the HANDLER how to use it properly (duh... state the obvious Arya, I'm sure you're all saying LOL) but this would help eliminate some of those dominance probs and single out those who are beating their head against brick wall and would be better with other method... and thus so FANTASTIC about the K9 and Erny workshops :rolleyes: . Hey Dogdude, are you going to FOO this coming season? If you are when you spot me bring Oscar over and we'll have a go with the hoses with him. Are you sure you just have not found the right reward to use to stimulate his prey drive? Are you sure you have worked long enough to condition him onto an object? That Leerburg DVD, I got one of those balls on a string (still in my bag LOL) and I can tell you, Tess prefers a manky old bit of hose over it EVERY time. I'll show you :D And she instantly switches back on after the out and I think that's my good luck, nothing to do with my abilities as a trainer, which although I'm getting better are totally abysmal as I have so much to learn. K9: I am thrilled you say that in a way about the B Flinks DVD. My dog responded beautifully to his methods so I feel really really lucky that I was able by chance to get a show line GSD that has this strong prey drive. Could have got a flat one!!!!!!!!!!!!!