Arya

thanks Bloss, I'll look into this

Yeah, I'll be back for another shot at the working dog trial too. Tess likes KCC Park so hopefully she won't be too nervous and do some silly displacement behaviour again. She certainly shouldn't but with her you never know Can't speak for her handler on the nerves side though. Hey, if people did displacement behaviour in the ring, what would it look like. Sudden stop for a cup of tea? Break into song? Starting to skip as you leave the dog for the recall? LOL

Well LP, my dog LOVES heeling and so do I - not that you would have had a clue at all about that when you saw us in the ring on Sunday LOL. What you saw outside the ring is a tiny little bit of what we get all the rest of the time when we are having fun. But seriously, we do enjoy it when we are at the park, oval, anywhere else. Tess will offer up heeling and when she is in drive she sort of lifts herself up beside me and floats along, and it is such a rewarding thing to do with her. Wonderful. And for her, the reward is the ball or tug toy at the end of a short pattern. I used to just train heel with food. Then we discovered the ball and tug and heel suddenly stepped into a whole different realm with her - a really good lesson in letting the dog choose their reward. So now, with a dog with high drive I'd always train heel with a tug, ball, whatever, if that's what they'd work best for. Teach focus and then short patterns, gradually getting longer.

I agree Erny. This reminds me a bit of "Dancing with the Stars" when the female dancer is always looking backwards . This poor dog has no idea where it's going. I was always taught the dog's shoulder was to be in line with your left leg, and the dog should be focusing on you with no distration. I'm not sure about totally eye-balling you though . It doesn't look very relaxed does it. I would love my Goldie to be just a little more focused than he is at the moment *sigh*. Yes, but the dog is supposed to be giving you total focus when they are looking up at you with eyes locked on to your face/shoulder area, trusting you as their leader to be able to see where you are both going LOL! (Well, I've just been watching the Leerburg Bernhard Flinks dvd so I'm even worse about it now than I was before he he). I want the total eyeball as it's total concentration on behalf of the dog. But... it wouldn't work in the 'real' world walking down the street, would it. One of us would trip up and go A over T sooner or later LOL

Good point Ness. I actually use the phrase 'walk with me' when I want my dog in the heel position when we are out walking on the street. And 'out the front' for loose lead walking, where she can go anywhere as long as she's not pulling or lagging behind The reason for this is I save 'heel' for special fun heeling in drive, for training and comp work. Tess doesn't like to have to walk beside me in a controlled fashion when out on the street, she'd rather be off sniffing. She does it cos she's obedient but I don't want to associate the word 'heel' with something that isn't high drive and fun. Just my little theory, anyway.

I like shoulder to the leg, dog looking straight up at you, even if there is a bit of crowding. It shows enthusiasm for the work and good drive. I know that some judges like this and some really do prefer nose to leg. It's a real individual thing I suppose. But give me complete focus on your face every time.

I don't wash down bones/toys/hide chews that dogs have buried and dug up. I know what you mean about bones Dru - yuk, how do they stand it! But, this happened to someone else I know too - my dog had red infected patches on the inside of her mouth, near her canines. It was weird. At first the vet even thought it might be an immune problem but antibiotics would clear it up, then back it would come. I knew someone else whose dog had had an infected mouth off chewing dirty tennis balls so I started washing mine and hey presto, the mouth problem disappeared, never to return. I think it's just that muck and saliva in the felt of the tennis balls provide a good medium for bacteria to flourish. I know bones should too but they probably do in some instances. We used to get dogs with awful bacterial gut infections in fairly regularly at the vet clinic I worked at so I'm guessing they'd been eating stuff they shouldn't...

Hey thanks everyone, this is interesting! I only let her play with the balls when we are training and she doesn't chew them outside of this time in the back yard or anything, so from the general consensus, it seems this would be okay I am going to get a couple of rubber balls too though as tennis balls are hard to wash. LP, your squeaky one would be a big prize in this house, I can tell you! Dru, I got some of those tennis balls too but they only lasted a min or two with my girls big choppers LOL. I get cheap ones from the sports store that are Wilson rejects as they are slightly off balance or some thing. They dont' ever split or break and are three for $2, so that's good. But she still only has them when she's working with me. Thanks for the pic Clover - shiny clean teeth!

Go give your dog a big hug. :D There's always next time. Mel. He he, she still gets the special dog bikkies and lots of cuddles whatever she does Mel, though the week before I actually heard a man tell his dog that when they got back to the car all it was getting was fresh air!!! Really, I was a bit thrilled cos on the figure of 8 I all of a sudden had a dog right beside me with her head right up there where it is in training, which has never happened before in a trial. She will get there with a bit more experience and focus, and lack of worry about being around so many other dogs. And LP, if that superdog ever gets kidnapped you'll know who has done it and have to come get him back from me

Just watching a Leerburg dvd and he talks about not using tennis balls because in Germany it was discovered that the glue that glues the felt on reacts with dogs' tooth enamel and helps wreck it. Has anyone else ever heard of this? Only thing I know is I always wash my tennis balls after training and let them thoroughly dry because of bacteria causing mouth probs if you don't. Dog slobber and dirt make a good combo. But Leerburg suggests they can be really bad. What do others think? I am wondering (and worrying) now as I train a lot with tennis balls. Don't want my dog to be gumming her food in a couple of years cos of how we train!

And forgot to mention a certain GSD not only didn't recall but got an itchy face *suddenly* in the down stay about 10 secs from the end, had to scratch herself, sat up and then remembered it was a down stay and quickly lay back down again. Hmmm... LOL.

BIG HUGE HUGE CONGRATS TO LP!!! What a fantastic trial for her. In the morning trial Leo did the best Novice run through I've seen in a long time and WON!!!! YAY!!! He did super in the pm too for TWO PASSES ON THE DAY!!! But she'll probably have more to say herself. My GSD girl didn't go too well in the am but was very pleased with her in the PM (broke the crappy heeling hoodoo and did a decent heeling score!) even though she didn't get a pass cos (kind of ironic after doing a good recall and getting pinged for nothing the week before) she completely buggered up the recall, causing some grins from my fellow competitors when I was reduced to shaking my finger at her for her lovely displacement behaviour, innocently sniffing the ground LOL. It was a very good day though and there were some nice passes and some good stuff even from those I knew who didn't quite get there.

Wow, okay, after reading some of the things that have happened to people what has happened to me doesn't seem so out of the ordinary! Here is my new resolution... when I'm in a trial from now on I'm going to mark myself. If I'm happy with the performance of me and my dog on each exercise, and feel that the dog has progressed and achieved my goals for the day then I'm going to be happy. If we happen to get a pass and eventually a title, that is going to be an added extra. After all, a title is just a bit of writing on a bit of paper. At least I will be fair and honest with myself and I will be paying attention to what me and my dog are doing during the exercises. I am pretty sad at some of the things I've read here and can see how people get completely disillusioned and chuck it in. Judges have a big responsibility and the people they judge have worked long and hard with their dogs to get their teams up to compete in that ring on that day. They would do well to remember that - but I think a lot do. In saying this, as some have said, MOST judges are great. Very fair and try to help you. I must admit I have always found this so (one judge who shall remain nameless is not popular at all but he's been great with me the two times I've had him), so when you strike someone who doesn't behave in this way it comes as a big surprise because most are great and you don't expect it. I'm not trying to judge-bash as they do give their time to do it for us.

Like I said Poodlefan, I'm more than happy to own up if my dog doesn't work well but what happened to me was neither bad habits or sloppy work on behalf of me or my dog!!! Perhaps your comment was just a general one and not referring to me though. And I won't trial under the second judge I had on sat ever again, that's for sure!

Oh yeah, here's another tip that works for me. My dog keeps looking to me for direction and if I'm looking away she doesn't like it. I know you're not supposed to stare at them in the stays but sometimes I do, and keep my face relaxed as I can and happy looking. Okay, it's a signal I suppose but as long as your not changing your face I would think it's okay. It really works for me and reassures her. Try it and see what works best for your dog.

In stays, I keep my hands behind my back. I walk away with them like that and I turn around and leave them like that, with my legs slightly apart. This works for me and my dog. In recalls or distance control or stand for exam I keep my hands in front. But hey, I don't think there's a rule as long as you keep your hands in the same position and don't move around and make it look like you're doing extra signals. You don't have to do EXACTLY what your instructor says as long as you are doing something that isn't incorrect. My advice would be to do what you are most comfortable with as this will transmit in your body language across the ring to your dog. Your dog will take the cue from you to relax and sit it out. If that's fold your hands in front then go with it. Hey, I would like to see everyone do the hokey pokey while their dogs are in the stays though - imagine THAT sight

Hi all, I'm more than happy to speak out and say I was one of the people who had one of these incidents happen on this weekend and as most of you know, am more than happy to say when my girl stuffs up LOL. It was the recall incident. The judge was lovely to me and spent a lot of time talking throughout my workout (something I really don't want to deal with when I'm working my dog in drive and want to concentrate but I do appreciate the kind advice). Something Tapferhund didn't mention was my girl did a beautiful recall (and you know how she goes Dogdude when she is working properly) and the judge actually TOLD ME that they weren't going to penalise me but then when I looked at the score sheet I was NQd on the exercise! Imagine my surprise... I lost a pass on this and yet still managed a sixth out of 14 entrants. Of course, I would never question the judge as it's just not worth the aggro you can face. I was just happy that my dog broke the hoodoo and worked closer to what she can do and I must say I HAVE STEVE K9 TO THANK FOR THIS!!! :p ;) as his trigger word made all the difference. But I know I left a gap and the dog came in on the 'come' and I certainly would never blame a judge's decision for my or my girl's crappy performance. I'm happy to own up when she bombs out. What's more, the dog did this when less than fifty metres away they were frying up bacon and eggs on a bbq and every dog on the field's mouth was watering and they were looking across to it at some point LOL. Further to this incident I had a second one in the second trial which really upset me and my girl went out of drive and bombed out completely because of it. I am happy to say she might have done this anyway as it was a lot to ask her to hold herself together for a second trial in one day after we'd been up since 4.30am but it wasn't very nice and I didn't know that what happened to us could happen or was allowed. But if anyone wants to know they'll have to PM me as I'm not going to say stuff publically about it. Yes, I agree that sometimes people can blame judges for failures that are of their own making but also, things can happen that are not your fault. It is the subjective part of the sport unfortunately. I am happy to say I was happy with my dog's performance on the day in the morning trial I was at on Saturday and that is enough for me. I am primarily interested in seeing her progress and work confidently and happily in pressure situations, wherever we come. The second incident that happened to me was upsetting though as it upset the dog. But I won't pass judgement either way if someone thinks they've been judged unfairly and do feel that sometimes, particularly with the stays, things are ridiculous in ANKC obedience. (In saying this this is not sour grapes as my dog always does the stays.) I think that the stays need to be looked at. At the risk of being flamed, Schutzhund stays make far more sense to me, even if they are expected to do them for much longer.

Wajoma, that's amazing about Tagteach! Don't think I'll be using it on the OH any time soon though LOL

Hi Dogdude, that's great! It sounds like in a way, as well as a regular verbal marker, you are using 'yes' a bit like Steve K9 told me to use a trigger word to send the dog into drive. There is a thread a few pages back where he kindly gave me some pointers which have worked amazingly in a very short time and if you didn't read it it's well worth reading. I now say 'ready ready' and make a little 'ch ch ch' noise to my dog just before we begin to work and I've conditioned her to go into drive on the word and think of the tug toy or ball when I say it. It is now at the point where it throws her into high drive and I have to try to keep her from forging forward too much at the heel in training! LOL. I hope it works this weekend as we have the GSD champ show at KCC Park - double trial. I am trying everything to stop her flattening off and dying in the ring on me and completely buggering up. We will see...

Steph, if Bam is working best with your voice, why not stick to it? I use 'yes' also. The dogs love the sound of the word when said enthusiastically and paired with a treat. And you don't have to carry a clicker around to use your voice. Go with what works best for the dog. perhaps another dog you have will work better with a clicker. But like using voice for a verbal marker, clicker is not the solution for every person/dog. It IS great if it works for you. Your voice is great if it works better. Clicker or voice... neither of them are magic solutions in dog training.

Okay, apart from clicker training my cat, which I've mentioned before, I've never been a fan of clicker training my own dogs. I feel a much stronger connection with the dog I'm training when using my voice and putting inflections into it. BUT, I am open to different things and I must say, I've just discovered how wonderful clicker training is for one of my clients. She has a lot of trouble getting her timing right with a verbal marker, talks too much, repeats commands too much and generally confuses her dog, no matter what I say. The poor dog was getting to hate his training. NOW... a totally different situation. The clicker has got her marking behaviours with much more exact timing, the dog is learning faster, confusion is disappearing and best of all he is much happier. Now her voice is used for commands and praise at the end of an exercise and also, somehow the clicker has got her so that she is even able to issue commands only once, as I ask her to. It is BRILLIANT for this type of person who struggles with timing. I'm not saying everyone who uses a clicker is like this, it's just it really has surprised me how well it helps communication for some people. I am a convert now

Hi Emmala, if your dog starts digging at obedience the session is definitely too long for her LOL! Seriously though, don't let her get bored. If she is in the early stages of training look at what rewards system you are using. Food? Ball? Tug toy? Maybe you are using the wrong reward for her when training if she won't concentrate in the back yard and would rather be playing. I train new stuff similar to Sne. In the house first, in completely no distraction area. Then back yard, then favourite park. Then I move to every park in the area I live in and proof the exercise. Then dog training where there are lots of other dogs. I have noticed that dogs at training sometimes work like this: Arrive - leap around and play up. In class - good, as they know that everyone is working. After class - go nuts again They do seem to know what it is all about at obedience classes. I agree you need to work where you get the most attention. If your chi is not enjoying working in the back yard I'd still have a look at your motivator though. Remember, you and the motivator need to be more interesting than anything else, wherever you are working. I've learnt this to my cost with my own dog at times, I can tell you! Good luck!

Glad others feel this way about people yelling at their dogs to stay in the stays! my girl hates it too. One night at KCC Park she freaked and ran out of the building into the dark, just because the dog next to her was told to stay put in a firm voice by the man. People need to think what is happening with the other dogs in stays around them too.

Good on you Dogdude! Sounds great Hope to see you at FOO nights again later in the year if they start them up again. They were excellent too, though I know a long way from you!

Jules, I totally, totally agree on avoiding breaks wherever possible so you don't teach the dog they can do it. I use a long line for this work for this reason. Distraction with a long line is the way I think you should go with a soft dog. you know, in a weird way, the connection of the line between you and the dog seems to provide a safety for the dog in its mind quite often, too. But I'd still include distraction with a soft dog. Just make it fun and gentle and take longer than with a harder, more confident dog. But I can't agree strongly enough in avoiding failures. It sets a pattern for lots of future trouble! I always reckon in a class, go with your gut feeling and don't let an instructor make you do something you don't feel comfortable with for your dog. Least that's what I tell my students in my classes - they can tell me to go jump if they don't like it LOL.