Arya

One thing I have found with help for mouthers is timing of rewards for correct behaviour must be spot on. Tell the dog to hold the dumbell calmly in its mouth (I say 'hold it!) and reward with marker word and instant removal the second the dog has it sitting perfectly still. Then extend the period that the dog is holding the dumbell still before releasing with the marker and reward. If you work without a marker word to release the dog this would be hard to do but I use marker word all the time anyway (or clicker for people who like clicker!!!). So then you can 'capture' the exact way you want the dog to hold the dumbell or whatever they are holding and they quickly get it and keep the thing still so they get marker and reward:) My dog holds lots of objects besides the dumbell and she started with a basket actually, not a dumbell. The more different objects they hold the better and more dexterous they become at picking anything up, all materials imho. Start as soon as possible and make it really FUN FUN FUN!!! for the dog

Barf or otherwise, inter-digital licking won't be solved by any amount of food once fungi or bacteria set in. Hence the need for a visit to a vet!!!

I was a vet nurse for 15 years. My advice to you would be to go see your vet asap. Yes, especially as you have a British Bull Terrier the root cause of the problem could be obsessive compulsive/anxiety related. However, it could also be something as simple as a mild skin infection or something more serious. It may be something called inter-digital dermatitis. It can have a fungal origin, an auto-immune (allergic) origin, all sorts. Many many things. I suggest the best way is to go and see a doggy health professional to get a clear pic of what is going on. Don't waste time trying to figure out if it is behavioural or not at this stage cos even if it is, the licking will have caused skin trauma and secondary problems. Really, a vet is absolutely the best person to give you advice in this instance, the sooner the better

I do both. If I catch my dog in the act of doing something incorrectly, I will interrupt him, then ask for it again or guide him into the right position, then praise. If I'm too late to catch him mucking up, for example he's done a finish and sat too far back before I realised, then I will often tell him "uh-uh", gently move him into the correct position, then praise him for being there. He seems to understand that. The only thing I think is unhelpful is rewarding a dog while being in the wrong position - at least, unless you are deliberately teaching just the bare bones of the exercise with the intention of polishing the details later. For example, when I was first teaching the auto-sit in heel, I praised and rewarded whenever his butt hit the ground at the right time, even if he was a bit crooked. I only started to straighten him up when I was sure he understood the concept of sitting whenever we stopped. Otherwise he would just have been confused and frustrated, and probably lost interest in the whole thing, since I was so hard to please! This is exactly the way I would do it. However, here is something else to think about. It depends on what I am working on. If I am looking to polish, just for example, the sit. I will reward for perfect sits and actually say no, that's not good enough and move forward and ask my dog to repeat the sit, which she then will and she'll get rewarded for the correct position with a bit of food. I'll even bend down and pat her butt and say that's a good sit. She gets it. Others I've shown their dogs get it too. HOWEVER, depends on what I am working on. If I am looking for high drive work with good body position in the heeling and excellent focus and high verve, if you know what I mean, and I am working on this hard, then I have been known to forgive slipping positions and a bit of jumping up at the hand/ball (or hose these days!!!). In high prey drive the dog is still learning to control herself and things won't be as neat as with lower value food. But it all comes together when we want it to (except in the trial ring LOL... well, maybe that is changing now!). One thing I do not do is ear pinch or harshly physically correct my dog when polishing up straight sits etc. What a demotivator that would be for her!!! But, she is a soft dog and if she throws down a challenge it won't be in something like tidying up sits when we're working together. She enjoys it too much. As far as forced retrieve method for teaching dumbell etc goes I've heard it said you can't get as reliable hold without it. IMHO that is a load of codswallop. Positive, positive, positive, great time in everything in training unless there is flagrant disobedience and yes, I reward trying. It motivates the dog to try even harder IMHO, even if the try isn't quite right. I like to be rewarded for trying to get something right even if it doesn't quite end up the way it should LOL>

Clubrooms flooded to the roof and they lost their memorabilia? I really do feel sorry for Geelong, all jokes aside. I know someone on the committee there and they work pretty hard to put on events such as this. Would be awful for any club. Remember the heat thing at Croydon last December? I was really disappointed that day. We stuck around for ages hoping it would cool down but it just got hotter. Everything had been set up so nicely and in the end all for nothing.

Couldn't we just schlep about in waders or gumboots? LOL. How about rowing around the run through on surf skis? We could bring wetsuits... What about dog floaties

Not petty, it's a fair amount of money and like me, many will have bought citilink passes which we can't get back but there you go, it's the weather's fault Geelong are going to refund all the money the lady made a point of saying to me, and it will come in about a week. I just thought we'd lose it, actually. Never mind. I would gladly go and do the run through in water anyway. I've been deliberately working Tess out in the rain and cold for this very reason LOL. Not great for my health but the dog seems to love it better than a warm day I have a fun day coming up and am very grateful for this bit of extra trial experience anyway. BTW, I checked and that relative of Leo's I was telling you about was his aunt apparently

Hi all, don't know if anyone else on DOL was off to the Geelong quadruple trial weekend this weekend but its been cancelled! I just got rung up and they said the ground was flooded and not safe so they've had to cancel it. if you are in it you will probably get a phone call but best to give them a call and check. Very disappointing for me, I'm trying to get as many trials in with my girl before the state trial BUT must be HUGE disappointment for Geelong club. It was set to be a big weekend down there with camping overnight and everything!!! Poor Geelong club.

Oh boy, you need K9 to answer this one!!! LOL. Seriously, I'd go see K9 to help you if you are in NSW. Otherwise, if you are in another state perhaps it is one he is going to visit soon? Or, if you are in Vic you can PM me and I know an excellent professional trainer who helped me with similar problem and I haven't looked back. Anyway, here's my tuppence worth though I do think you need some behaviourist advice. Drives, I think K9 mentioned somewhere that if a dog is fearful it can't go into prey drive. This would be even more so for food, I'd imagine. Nothing will outdo defence, I think, except trust that the Alpha (you) will deal with the situation. Look, it sounds (and I can't see the dog) like Buster is fear aggressive towards other dogs. Therefore, his urge to defend himself will supersede any kind of focus work you try to do with food. I've been down that path myself. If you are saying that he has big drive to chase small furry animals then you can use this to HELP you, though it won't initially stop the problem because as K9 said, fear shuts down prey. Here's what I did in brief: Utilise prey drive in a low distraction environment to create a greater bond between you and the dog, so he is able to sort of 'go into the game' as a safe area when he is beginning to tense up. Work at home, then if you go to a club, work at the periphery of the club with other dogs in the distance and slowly move in towards them to get the dog closer, as long as he is comfortable. Use a long line so he can't panic and get away or get into a punch up. Use toy, ball, whatever. Food won't do it as well as prey if he likes to chase things. The deal is, create a predictable situation for him within the game. You start, you finish, he wins all the time while you're playing. Back and forth retrieval/chase games are our favourite. Then, as a separate excercise, work on shutting down his behaviour around other dogs by getting him to focus on you. You pick the distance he is just bearable with and work to get his attention with toy or food and then gradually move in. Initially the distance might be the next block LOL. I utilised my poor neighbours dogs in our area. I would walk near a fence line where a dog was going mad on the inside and teach my dog it was okay, to watch me and relax. Not the same as facing a dog with no fence between us but you'd be surprised how much it helped. Now we can have Cujo on the other side of the fence and my dog actually predicts she's going to get some sort of a reward and looks happy. Or if your dog is really is a feisty one, I know it's not traditional but you can correct him before he gets right into it, just as he is beginning to load up. watch his body language and catch him just as he begins to tense up and reef forward, if you are on the lead. Try using your voice first. I don't mean a little 'Buster, Buster' but a big deep voice so that everyone turns around and looks at you LOL. Also work on leadership at home - the NILIF program you can find on the internet. But seriously, try to go and have a one on one lesson with a trainer who specialises in this sort of problem. Other DOLers will also have trainer suggestions for you but like I said, if you are in Vic feel free to PM me.

Tapferhund knows, I will check with her. She was on the front cover! I use a clicker with my cat too. It's so cute, when she hears the sound she puts her head down for the kitty chow LOL. Clicker is great with a cat, I think. It's nice quiet regular sound that doesn't spook them if you get too excited when they get something right Here is a pic. I have worked on capturing her with her paw up for the beg. Sometimes she meows at the same time - trying to capture that too but haven't managed it yet. Slow learner...

I must agree that I've seen abuse of the head collar too - inadvertant abuse mostly where it's fitted incorrectly and the head collar is causing discomfort, as well as being dangerous. However, if the level of cxn applied with a prong or check chain is wrong (and I guess this applies to the head collar too) it's useless and damaging. I've seen a too weak correction and poor timing on a prong cause big time redirected aggression. I've also seen multiple, multiple unnecessary cxns done on a prong to the point where a dog was neck shy in the way sometimes a horse is head shy. I've seen a dog come close to having a nasty accident when the bottom part of a head collar that was fitted incorrectly slipped into its mouth when it was pulling backwards and the handler didn't even notice it had happeend. I've also recently seen a dog corrected so hard on a regular check chain that it flew back through the air and landed on its side. This was supposed to correct big time fear aggression. The dog had been sent out on to the end of a two metre lead with a handler that wasn't its owner who should have known better. It was exposed to a large number of dogs around it and when it aggressed it received a HUGE cxn backwards. The cxn didn't work (imho was never going to work because of the root cause of the dogs problem) so it was done again.... and again... and again for a total of six times til I was almost crying at what I saw because the dog's neck was cut and bleeding. Disgusting. I guess the absolute bottom line is, every bit of equipment we put on a dog or other animal from a soft puppy collar to a prong has the potential for abuse by humans really. It's not so much that this means the equipment should be banned but that far more education should be instituted to prevent this sort of thing occurring.

I am jealous I can't see these! My internet connection is way to slow to view these but I'm going to have to go up to my isp and use their computers on broadband to check these out. Cat training is fun too, isn't it LP!!! What are you working on with your cat? I have got my cat targetting a stick and she can spin, do 'sit', beg and is just starting to jump properly through a hoop. The thing is, tricks like spin are hilarious as they're all done in SLOW MOTION!!! And when I say slow, I mean slow! Sounds like your cat is more food motivated than mine. I'm surprised at what they can learn... don't know why, they are smart buggers! ;) BTW, saw a beautiful pic of one of Leo's relatives on the front of an old copy of The Ringleader mag. Gorgeous.

I have used a target stick to train tricks like spinning with my dog. I know its also supposed to be good for teaching stuff like marching. I personally found that the dog targets my hand easily so don't really use a stick much for her. HOWEVER, I know some trainers love them and also, I am using it for my cat where it has worked brilliantly. I notice the vetshed where you can online order stuff has some nice retractable target sticks if you don't want to make your own. I think you'll find target sticks are mainly used for tricks, doggy dancing. But others may know more. In agility for instance?

I have witnessed the same thing Tapferhund I have seen it with regular check chains too. I actually never have seen either of these training tools truly abused until recently. I saw instances of each and it does lead me to believe that if prongs could be legalised again, and allowed at VCA trials etc. then any instances of misuse could be noted quickly. I must say abuse I saw took place at non-VCA clubs and they were NOT, I repeat NOT Schutzhund clubs. I have seen them used by Schutzhund people correctly and responsibly as I feel that good Schutzhund clubs give proper instruction on these valuable tools. It upsets me too. Poor dogs having great tools misused on them

I am not a member of Croydon, being too far away, but I know it to be a great club with a terrific reputation, great trainers and all I speak to highly recommend it. It's a not-for-profit place too so it isn't too expensive. Good luck on finding the right place for you

I love obedience and so does my dog It's never boring because obedience is really play time for us. It's our hobby and we love it. We get out there with everything good and break the sessions at the park etc up with lots of good play with tug toys, hoses, balls, treats, fun, high action and lots of running cos that's what my dog loves. She really looks forward to it and actually loves heeling too (which is what makes things a bit frustrating when we don't go so well at trials). But even if we never trialled we'd still do obedience because it's all part of the fun and games. We also love tricks, agility, some of the schutzhund obedience we've been teaching ourselves, a bit of very basic tracking, whatever.... It's all really GREAT fun and it's just the attitude of the owner and dog. If some dogs don't like obedience it might be because in some obedience classes, it's very formal, goes on for a long time without breaks or games, and they get bored and demotivated. It's all how it's taught and how the game/sport is played imho

K9: best thing you can do is measure the amount of effort she will go to now, compared to before... remember that frustrtion is the number one drive building tool.... K9: Let us know how you go, or if your confused, post up what yor trying to achieve & I will give you some pointers... Ooh, thanks K9! I will see if I can work out how hard she will try and how much she will work to nut out the problem and post up what happens. With box, it is strange. She loves the directed jumping part and will FLY over the jumps. And she will run out to the box well too but lately she has had an occasional glitch where she stops part way on the way out and sits, or even drops. I suspect she is getting confused with my hand signals too, as I have also taught her 'on your mark' to run to and stand on a square of carpet and also 'voraus' to run to the drop for schutzhund (a very weak one compared to the good dogs but we're building on it). This is my fault and I have to get my part of the team together too!!! I taught each excercise a slightly different way, the theory being (another crackpotLOL) that the visual memory in the dog's mind whilst learning would be different and she would be less likely to shoot out to the box, say, and drop. This indeed has proved very successful... until now. But it could be she isn't bothered to try hard enough so she can get to the jumps with box and directed jumping. She just wants to get to the jumping part first! So I will see what happens to build more drive before I send her out.

K9: There are a million ways to train dogs, few of them are crack pot theories lol.. But if I were the dog, & I just couldnt get it, & you step in & give me an easy solution to win the reward, I wouldnt be too pressed to push hard next time... Thats one thought.. When training in drive, I would (if the dog was confused) break down the excercises in smaller, bite sized chunks. If the dog at any time gets stressed, I would build some drive by putting movement into the toy, this will clear the dogs mind....Then asking for another attempt at the excercise. Oh boy, I make it WAY too easy for my girl LOL. I bet she thought of what you are saying a long time ago. "Hmmm, if I stuff up I'll get to do something easy and get the reward anyway." I will bear this in mind!!! I will try breaking down even smaller and building drive for another attempt next time this situation occurs instead and see what happens! This happens occasionally with box directed jumping and what you are saying could be the answer. I am too soft!!!

That is GREAT Dogdude, congratulations. Excellent scores too! He is a lovely worker and a lovely dog. I will look forward to seeing you and he at trials. No doubt we will still be working our way through novice LOL. But at least we are on the up and up now!

7. Finally, repeating the same excercise that the dog fails in is not helping... K9, I have a theory that when a dog is learning something new and they are becoming confused, I always stop and then end on a positive note by finishing off with something so simple for the dog (where possible) that they do it easily and don't fail, then big praise. In this way I think they don't lose their confidence in training and are keen to try again later. So for example, if my dog is stuffing up something I might just ask her to shake hands before we pack up for a while and try something else or try again another time. Or speak, or something she likes to do and can do without thinking. What are your thoughts? Do you agree or is this just a crackpot theory of mine LOL?

Aw, thank you LP And a huge congrats on your success with your girl in the show ring. That's fantastic Leo is going to knock-em-dead in Open, I just know it. Can't wait to see him in action there soon.

aww thats ok, i dont know faces i know dogs faces tho.lol but couldnt pick u either, i was stewarding with ross in ring 1.. was a great day all ran smoothly no hicups at all. judges were all fantastic and getting competitors thru and all so friendly and happy and helpfull, the grounds are always great it must have great drainage because it is never muddy or anything, even tho the soccer club uses it as well. apart from the smell of bunnies and birds everywhere. a bit of a distraction.lol there was some wonderfull results quiet a few titles gained and some very happy owners. well done to all competitors and your beautiful dogs. AAAH, I was in the ring next to you, Novice 4! So was Glorybea. Ross had some nice dogs in CCD, didn't he. That Black Russian was a big curly boy and my GSD girl was fascinated by him LOL. Ross is good, he turns up to a lot of trials and puts in a lot of judging time, doesn't he

Gee, I must also add here that if anyone reading this has a potentially 'difficult' breed like Central Asian Shepherd NDTF is definitely not the only place that provides people who are capable of giving very good advice indeed on how to train more dominant or harder to train breeds... and in saying that, I'm in the process of doing this course! I just feel it should be made clear that most of the larger VCA affiliated not for profit obedience clubs are happy to recommend people with dogs who are experiencing problems, or have potential problems, to private trainers who can give them a head start and help them enjoy their time at regular obedience. There are lots of brilliant behaviourists and private trainers out there who are not NDTF qualified!!!!

Okay, my two cents' worth here I have had experience with both NDTF/ADT centres and not-for-profit VCA affiliated obedience centres... centres like Southern. Although these VCA centres do not have 'NDTF qualified' instructors, most big clubs like Southern have instructors with years of experience who are very qualified in what they say and are equally qualified without the formal NDTF qualification. And frankly, they do not charge as much for the same service. Also, bear in mind that whatever club you go to, different clubs have different styles of training and you need to find a club that has a training style that you are comfortable with, be it an ADT club or your local obedience club. What I mean by this is that some clubs lean towards the more 'purely positive' style of training and tend to shy away from use of correction chains etc (and I'm not referring to Southern here by any means) and others are more compulsion-oriented. Why don't you actually visit some of these clubs and take a look for yourself. That way you will see the different training styles, get to speak to different people and get to make up your own mind. If you have not trained in obedience before I strongly recommend that you do this. Don't sign up anywhere until you have seen a few different ones. And yes, if you want to competition trial I think Southern is one of the best clubs around for this (and I'm not a member, I live too far away, so I don't have an axe to grind so to speak LOL). There are lots of good clubs, you just need to work out your needs, your budget and go see different styles of training. And also, check out some of the doggy sports just in case you'd like to do them later and want to pick a club that does them, like Agililty, Obedience, Flyball etc. Good luck

I agree with Dogdude, I think the main difference is that training styles have changed. There is a lot more training in drive/motivational training used than in the past. It's still fine and acceptable to heel with the dog just at heel and not looking up at you as long as they are consistent and hold position. I prefer the style of the dog prancing along beside you with the head turned up, looking at you. I prefer to have extremely high motivation and focus from the dog. It's just my preference. I also agree that some judges don't like this. It's so subjective. It depends on what suits the dog and the person too, I think. But I don't think anyone should be penalised for either way. If it is consistent and not bumping or lagging, that is what counts. For me though, I feel much more like my dog is working as part of a team when she is looking at me and working with me with total concentration (just wish I could get this in the ring LOL).