ricey

Get your vet to excise this lump, and then get the lump checked out pathology-wise. Stop worrying about something you don't have a clue about. It might be benign, and it might be malignant. Who knows? Not you nor me until the path results come back. ricey

Thanks poodlefan, I am glad that my "hi-jacking" (an accusation by others, not by you ) has added to the information available in this thread. Me, I only want dog owners to be aware that colloidal silver could kill their dog if they make their dog eat it. Spread it topically on burns and wounds and all is good. Cheers, ricey

Nothing that you say there that I'd disagree with Cheers, ricey

Look, I'm not sorry if what I am about to say offends you This probably is not remotely scientific evidence for you ricey, however, as part of a VCE Biology experiment to see the effect of antibiotics on bacteria (ecoli and strep) we used among other antibiotics - both commercial and natural including CS on agar plates smeared with the above bacteria. CS WAS just as effective against both bacteria in our experiment (as was tee tree oil ) as the commercial penicillian etc. Now I would not expect this to be satisfactory evidence for you however, I don't give a hoot for your thoughts on the matter as I have used CS for many ailments both for myself and my dogs and have found it successful. So basically if people want to use it and see for themselves let them. I doubt very much that there will be adverse effects from sensible and moderate use as per instructions - just as there is not for many medications. It is NOT and no one has claimed it to be a cure all for everything. I refer you to my comment that you can use chlorine bleach to very successfully kill bacteria grown on agar plates, and if you drink chlorine bleach it will kill you. If you look up the MSD on tea tree oil, you will also find that it is very poisonous when taken internally. The LD50 dose in rats is 1.9ml/kg body weight. Extrapolated for the average human, an average sized wine glass of tea tree oil would be fatal. If you think that I am making this up, here's the MSD (material safety data sheet) on tea tree oil: http://www.coldstream-plantation.com.au/material.html I'm tiring of repeating myself, but I'm not sure that you understand my point; just because something successfully kills particular bacteria grown in a petri dish, doesn't mean that it is safe for humans or other mammals to ingest All your experiment proved was that if you applied toxic agents to bacteria in a petri dish, the poisons killed them. The thing that separates penicillin from the two other anti-bacterial agents you mention (colloidal silver and tea tree oil) is that penicillin is not toxic for the great majority of human beings. Patience is a virtue, little one. Whilst you were penning this childish post (and neglecting to proof read it), I was putting together this post. As to your gibe: I have a Batchelor of Science (Physiotherapy) degree from Curtin University. Amongst a whole load of other things, this trained me in assessing scientific research and evidence and coming to logical conclusions. One of the most basic things about research that you ought to realise about your little experiment that you so proudly mention is not to extrapolate from your results. I'll say it again: just because something successfully kills particular bacteria grown in a petri dish, doesn't mean that it is safe for humans or other mammals to ingest I really don't think you are getting this; tell your lecturers or lab technicians that you believe your little experiment proved that colloidal silver is safe for humans and other mammals to ingest, and I'll bet you'll be getting a big fat 'F' for that unit. You want to poison yourself with colloidal silver, go ahead; that's just good Darwinian theory in practice. Feel free to use it topically on your dogs, because as a topical anti-bacterial it is very good. Just don't think that I won't condemn you for making your dogs eat a known poison. That's just animal abuse. regards ricey

http://nano.foe.org.au/node/162 Quite true about silver being a potent anti-bacterial agent agent used topically in burns treatment And thanks for posting up that web-site; it made for a good read I especially thought this quote from the Friends of the Earth article was pertinent to this ongoing discussion: Scary stuff cheers, ricey

As for being insulting - Ricey, your comments are not only insulting but are also extremely childish. As you can see above in bold I have listed research and since you most likely will require further medical research...Ive listed a few for you below and these can be found at Hi Ho Silver Away! (Mild Silver Protein and its effectiveness against internal and topical infections) by James South MA. REFERENCES 1) H. Bechhold, Colloids in Biology and Medicine, N.Y.: D. van Nostrand, 1919, pp. 364-76. 2) N.R. Thompson, Comprehensive Inorganic Chemistry, Vol. 5, ch.28, Elmsford, N.Y.: Pergamon Press, 1973. 3) B. Duhamel (1912) "Electric Metal Colloids and Their Therapeutical Applications" Lancet, Jan. 13. 4) A. Searle, The Use of Colloids in Health and Disease, London: Constable & Co., 1920, pp67-111. 5) A. Legge Roe (1915) "Collosol Argentum and its Opthalmis Uses" Br. Med. J., Jan.16, 104. 6) G. van Amber Brown (1916) "Colloidal Silver in Sepsis" Am. J. Obstetrics, Jan-June, 136-141. 7) W. Hill & D. Pillsbury, Argyria - The Pharmacology of Silver, Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins, 1939. 8) S. Begley (1994) "The End of Antibiotics" Newsweek, Mar. 28, 46-51. 9) J. Fisher, The Plague Makers, N.Y.: Simon & Schuster, 1994. 10) D. Long & S. Spencer Jones, Bioterrorism: Secrets for Surviving the Coming Terrorist Germ Warfare Attacks on U.S. Cities, Barstow, CA: Life & Health Research Group, 1998. 11) N. Grier (1983) "Silver and Its Compounds" in Disinfection, Sterilization and Preservation, S. Block, ed., Philadelphia: Lea & Febiger, 380-428. 12) I. Romans (1954) "Silver Compounds" & "Oligodynamic Metals" in Antiseptics, Disinfectants, Fungicides and Chemical and Physical Sterilization, G. Reddish, ed., Philadelphia: Lea & Febiger, 380-428. 13) J. Powell (1978) "Our Mightiest Germ Fighter" Sci. Digest, Mar., 57-60. 14) H. Carr et al (1973) "Silver Sulfadiazine: In Vitro Antibacterial Activity" Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 4, 585-87. 15) T.-W. Chang & L. Weinstein (1975) "Prevention of Herpes Keratoconjunctivitis in Rabbits by Silver Sulfadiazine" 8, 677-78. 16) T.-W. Chang & L. Weinstein (1975) "Inactivation of treponema Pallidum by Silver Sulfadiazine" 7, 538-39. 17) M. Wysor (1975) "Orally-Administered Silver Sulfadiazine: Chemotherapy and Toxicology in CF-1 Mice...." Chemother 21, 302-10. 18) T. Wlodkowski & H. Rosenkranz (1973) "Antifungal Activity of Silver Sulfadiazine" Lancet, Sep. 29, 739-40. 19) T. Berger et al (1976) "Electrically Generated Silver Ions: Quantitative Effects on Bacterial and Mammalian Cells" Antimicrob Agents Chemother 9, 357-58. 20) T. Berger et al (1976) "Antifungal Properties of Electrically Generated Silver Ions" Antimicrob Agents Chemother 10, 856-60. 21) R. Thurman & C. Gerba (1989) "The Molecular Mechanisms of Copper and Silver Ion Disinfection of Bacteria and Viruses" CRC Crit Rev Envir Control 18, 295-315. 22) W. Newton & M. Jones (1949) "Effectiveness of Silver Ions Against Cysts of Endamoeba Histolytica" 41, 1027-34. 23) N. Simonetti et al (1992) "Electrochemical Ag+ for Preservative Use" Appl Environ Microbiol 58, 3834-36. 24) S. Hussain et al (1992) "Cystein Protects Na, K-ATPase and isolated Human Lymphocytes from Silver Toxicity" Biochem Biophys Res Comm 189, 1444-49. 25) H. Freundlich, Colloid & Capillary Chemistry, N.Y.: E.P. Dutton, 1922, p.385. 26) C.E. MacLeod (1912) "Electric Metallic Colloids and Their Therapeutical Applications" Lancet, Feb. 3. 27) A. Clark (1923) "The Properties of Certain 'Colloidal' Preparations of Metals" Br Med J, Feb. 17, 273-77. 28) T. Sanderson-Wells (1916) "A Case of Puerperal Septicemia... Treated with... Collosol Argentum" Lancet, Feb. 16, p.258. 29) B. Fowler & G. Nordberg (1986) 'Silver'' in Handbook on the Toxicology of Metals, L. Friberg, G. Nordberg & V. Vouk, eds. Amsterdam: Elsevier Sci. Pub., Vol. 2, 521-31. 30) J. Dawson et al (1984) "The Effectiveness of N-acetylcysteine...." Arch Toxicol 55, 11-15. 31) L. Borgstrom et al (1986) "Pharmacokinetics of N-acetylcysteine in Man" Eur J Clin Pharmacol 31, 217-22. 32) A. Lorber et al (1973) "Clinical Application for Heavy Metal-Complexing Potential of N-acetylcysteine" J Clin Pharmacol 13, 332-36. Don't try to blind me with irrelevant pseudo scientific studies, ravingmissed. Come up with a well researched article in a reputable medical journal that supports your point of view. Do please try not to quote partial results out of context. There are no scientific studies that have shown colloidal silver to be good for humans. Ever. End of story. CS is a poison. If you smear it topically on burns or other wounds, it may help; just don't eat it, because it is a poison. And if you feed it to your dogs, you should get the RSPCA knocking on your door, because that is bastardry and dogs shouldn't be fed poison by their owners. You are are living in lala land. What, if anything, do you know about the real effects of colloidal silver? Not much, as demonstrated by your puerile comments here. Oh really? Care to share any evidence that supports this farcical view point? Are you able to point out one disease of the middle ages that was ameliorated by the use of silver? Please note that I'd expect you to provide evidence that silver actually did some good :D And this was a good thing? Sheesh; what drugs are you on? Have you researched the history of the European royal families? Yes, if you grow bacteria in a petri dish, and pour a dollop of colloidal silver into the petri dish, the bacteria will die. The bacteria will also die if you dump a load of carbon tetraflouride in as well. A small dose of bleach will also do a very good job of killing bacteria. Of course, if you swallow bleach or carbon tetraflouride you will die, so not all anti-bacterial agents are good for you. I don't know how I'm going to explain this stuff to you. I don't think that it is hard to understand, but you are doing your best not to. Colloidal silver is a poison; just what about that don't you follow? Regards, ricey

Yes we did, but we did the chemo 'just in case'. We love our dogs and we didn't want to lose one. Lulu handled chemo really well. Cheers, ricey

Dunno Ricey, I've read all the pro and against references, and it was used quite extensively in the past. I have used it externally with excellent results. I had two (minor) scratches on my arms, used CS on one, and other treatments on the other. The one treated with CS healed without a scar and faster. My stud dog slashed from his chest to his ribs, under his "armpit" - and my the time I found the wound, it was green and infected, and long past stitching, athough it really needed sewing up. Cleaned it with H2O2, and treated daily with CS. There is not even a hint of a scar. Friends give their newborn pups a drop on the tongue, and swear they do better than pups not given CS. Who knows. I was drinking a little every day - I failed to turn blue (damn, could have been interesting) but I see any benefits either, so stopped. But - I am prepared to say it is the BEST wound treatment I have ever used. Hi JedI'm not disputing the use of silver products as topical agents in wound care; it is used in mainstream medicine in burns treatment (as silver sulfadizine) or to topically treat conjunctivitis (as silver nitrate). Silver nitrate has also been used to topically treat warts. These topical uses are successful because the silver products are potent poisons :cool: . However, there are plenty of agents that are safe and effective when used topically that become dangerous or poisonous when ingested. Silver products are dangerous to humans and other mammals when ingested and there is no end of well conducted research in reputable journals that proves that colloidal silver has no benefits for human health. Quite the opposite in fact. Argyria is the commonest side effect where people's skin turns permanently blue-gray from deposition of silver. Although cosmetically challenging, argyria is not harmful to physical health (but perhaps harmful to psychological health). More to worry about is the neuro-toxic effects leading to epileptic seizures; kidney toxicity; hepatic toxicity; and arteriosclerosis. There is not a single internal function of the human body that requires silver in any of its forms. Humans can only excrete a small amount of silver daily and any excess builds up (like lead does ). Even minerals that are required for humans to live create huge and potentially fatal problems if absorbed in excess e.g. iron is necessary for a myriad of factors, with the best known being for oxygen transport in the blood; however, too much iron deposition in the condition of haemosiderosis is life threatening. So you can have too much of a good thing like iron, but ingested silver has never been demonstrated as having any benefits at any dose level. If humans want to ingest poisons, that is their choice, but I'd caution any dog owner against using a known poison as a "treatment" for their dog. ricey

Ricey take the time to research with an open mind. Right now you have a closed mind which will prevent you from learning anything positive about colloidal silver. Take as much time to look for the positives as you have obviously taken to find the negatives. Alcohol poisons people too but it doesn't stop a large proportion of the community drinking it to excess. I won't even go into what smoking does to people but they smoke. If you or your dog has an open wound put the colloidal silver on the wound daily and you may find it heals in very quick time. Try a drop in the ear for ear infections. People say it works fast, I haven't tried it because my dogs don't have ear infections. I know it worked quickly with a burn I had on my arm and left no scar. I have no idea whether giving it daily to my dogs improves their health but as it's doing them no harm I hope it is doing some good. My Rottweiler has a terminal disease. If colloidal silver might help then I'll try it. It didn't prevent her from getting cancer. I doubt it will heal her cancer either but she is still getting a tablespoon of it in her meal because it may help her in other ways to cope with this disease. Do me a favour cavNrott, and show me any research articles from anywhere in the world that support your view that colloidal silver helps anyone or any dog in any situation or with any known medical condition. If you can do that, I'll shut up. But you can't, so I won't. Put up, or shut up. Bet you can't. Whereas I can link you to a lot of articles that prove that Colloidal Silver is a poison to humans and other mammals (like dogs, for example). You say that I've got a closed mind? Now that is just insulting and unfounded; if you can come up with reliable justification for your outlandish belief in the properties of Colloidal Silver, just show it to me. Waiting, waiting....... Next you'll be telling me about the fairys at the bottom of your garden I know you believe that you've seen them. ricey

Look, I'm sorry if what I am about to say offends any of you 'colloidal silver true believers' but there is not a solitary scrap of evidence that CS does anything to help anyone or anything. More to the point, there is ample evidence that CS has poisoned people. If any of you can point me in the direction of any remotely scientific research that even halfway indicates that CS is good for you, lead the way. Sheesh, my bullshit meter starts reading in the red zone when this sort of flight of fancy gets bandied about. I'd believe in the tooth fairy before I'd believe in colloidal silver. ricey

Hi all Lulu, one of my three dogs developed a Mast cell tumour on her chest about three years ago. We noticed it when it was only 3mm across, our vet took out a chunk of her chest that was 100mm in diameter (she lost two of her nipples), and she did a year of chemo. So when she developed a lump on her back in September last year, we thought the worst and took her to the vet. Our vet said 'relax, it's just a sebaceous cyst' but said that it would probably need to be surgically removed (at around $400 ). It was around the size of a jaffa (the orange flavoured chocolate, not the the citrus fruit ). I was grooming Lulu last Tuesday, and noticed the cyst was gone. It must have burst, but there is no scar and no infection (our vet assured us that cysts that burst almost always get infected ). So we just got a free $400 to add towards a European holiday ricey ETA: Lulu is my small beige fluffy, not my pit bull type dog (Hobbes) that you can see chasing his ball in my signature.

Any one can do a six week course with Barkbusters and buy a franchise. You want someone with some serious experience and Barkbusters standards are highly variable. I'd not let a BB trainer near my dogs. Yeah, where I live, Bark Busters are colloquially known as Bank Busters . Shit load of money spent, for a shit result . Just about any reputable dog trainer will come to your house and observe how your dog behaves in its home environment. I'm not about to call Bark Busters reputable though; they are the "Amway" method of dog training This pup sounds like a high drive pup that hasn't had its boundaries explained sufficiently. Sounds like a potentially lovely dog. Drop her in to play with Hobbes who'll teach her some manners. ricey

Hi Beth Sorry to hear about Wags; That is just too damn short; Hobbes is only expected to last another 8 or 9 years. My next pet dog is going to be a giant tortoise. Thinking of you in this bereavement time, ricey

Hi Rusky yes, Hobbes was prescribed duphalac, 6 ml three times a day, but I have had to cut that back to 4 ml twice a day as it was working a bit too well . Hobbes has never been constipated previously, and has had plenty of marrow bones without problems before. I'm only guessing that the lack of walks was a contributing factor. I'm really keen on walking the boy (I think I enjoy our walks as much as he does) and I very rarely miss one. He has never gone two days in a row without a walk before, and he always poops halfway through the walk. Maybe he is just a creature of habit: walk = poop; no walk = no poop Cheers, Peter d

My lord that's a pricey enema, Petey!!! You're talking Hollywood prices at that rate. That was not for one enema, there were many 3 x-rays; 3 general anaesthetics; i/v drip; 4 nights of 'in hospital care'; antibiotics; various laxatives; anti-inflammatories; plus of course, there was the state levy for disposal of hazardous and toxic waste Yes, but I love my dog Peter D

Hi all Hobbes is back He went into the vet weighing 27kg (2kg over his normal weight), and came out today weighing 25kg My wallet has lost a bit of weight too; to the tune of nearly $1,400 ;) But he's worth every cent and more. Pet ownership does cost an arm and a leg at times; anyone who thinks that purchase price is the big investment is going to get a rude awakening :D I'm just so glad that he's back Peter d

Hi all Hobbes has not been a well dog since Christmas. He has/had very severe constipation and hasn't been able to crap under his own power for 6 days. Probably his christmas present, combined with not getting his usual 5 km walk on Christmas day and boxing day, were the reasons for this. Here is a picture or two of the boy with his christmas prezzie. After 3 enemas under general anaesthetic and 4 or 5 'normal' enemas (if there is such a thing ), the vet reports that things are moving. Actually, from the way that the vet described it the "thumbs up" emoticon is probably not appropriate; more like "wrist and forearm, up to the elbow" Dogs! I love 'em ;) Peter D

Hi rozzie, your little Molly looks as messy and lovely as Lulu, my little beige fluffy. Although I own a pit bull (who is a bit of a wimp), I do love the little fluffies. Lulu is nearing the end of her chemo for mast cell tumour. that's her on the left of the pit bull I admire you people who can rescue more than one dog at a time Peter D

yes, how nasty to delete or edit ones posts. a bit scummy, a bit cowardly, a bit devious :p Tell me that ain't true, you lot who have hit the delete button. Care to share your reasons, or are you cowards? Peter Duncan

GSD's are NOT "protection dogs". They were originally developed to herd sheep, and are still used extensively for this purpose in Germany. Because of their adaptability and trainability, they are also used for many other purposes, and "protection" is just one of these. There are already GSD's around the country with ANKC Herding titles. Because of the "public perception" you speak of, surely this can only be a good thing for the breed. To be able to promote the dog in a different light, and widen narrow minded views. GSD's are a true herding breed, even though it is not widely recognised here in Australia, and they should be given their chance to prove such. I find your suggestion that the ANKC remove them from the list of allowable herding breeds, simply because of "public perception", ridiculous. Julie echo, I agree with you totally that is why they are called 'german shepherd dogs. Peter D

Hi mjk05 DOLers delete or edit their posts for a variety of reasons. Let's look at some of those reasons: 1. they made a mistake in their original post; they should delete it and apologise. 2. they realise that their post was offensive; no need to delete, but they should apologise. 3. they said something really stupid that they are ashamed about (e.g. locking jaws); they should apologise. 4. they deliberately tried to incite people by stating inflammatory remarks. They should be warned by the moderators. 5. they tried to create as much trouble and division as they could by posting nasty ill-considered statements, then removed them before the moderators had a chance to review them. They should be banned. I don't know, mjk05, there are any number of reasons why DOLers may delete or 'edit' their posts; some reasons are ethical, and some are not It is difficult to decide on the ethics of a DOLers post if they have deleted it. This is why I don't delete or edit my posts to change my meaning. To do so would be cowardly and deceitful. I hope this info helps. Peter D edited for spelling and grammar.

Count me in. Hobbes doesn't have too many problems but any he has I gave to him before I clued up His recall is good, unless there is a dog he is really interested in :D Up to three other dogs, he is fine, but over that number he gets a bit hyper. One on one, he is not problematic. He has never damaged another dog, but unfortunately a fair few dogs have chewed on him. I'd like a perfect, consistent recall, no matter what is happening . I hope that that is not too unrealistic All the other stuff (sit, stay, drop, etc) is not important to me. I don't give a rat's about heel either. I can work on those things myself (and am). 100% reliable recall is what I want. I figure if I had that, I could call myself a responsible dog owner. Am I hoping for too much? Even if I just had a plan to get there, I'd be happy. Please don't misunderstand; Hobbes is not a problem dog. I'd just like to be a perfect owner Peter D

Leonard Cohen; what a human being! Peter D

Hey there Loraine, When you go to the bridge, Coco will meet you. It goes around and it comes around. Our dogs are with us. Peter D

Keep running bluey! keep nipping those heels, keep biting! This is what blue heelers do. It is the nature of the beast. I love these dogs; they are great. Blue heelers have "Australia" stamped all over them. ricey