ricey

Hi Papillon Kisses and Powerlegs,

Thanks for your replies. No, I wasn't given a behaviour modification plan when I fostered Keisha; I have had a phone consult with a respected animal behaviourist and I will be taking Keisha to her for an assessment and recommendations shortly. Hopefully I will then be able to help Keisha, but she is an 8 year old dog and it seems that these behaviours have been reinforced for a long time. I am having to walk Keisha at times when she is unlikely to see another dog (midday Monday to Friday, and at night on the weekends). So far this has been successful in not triggering these behaviours, but sooner or later we will encounter another dog.......

I will continue putting the Lovan tabs in a chunk of Prota roll. According to the rescue group, Keisha's previous foster took her off the Lovan and Keisha's behaviour got a lot worse. I don't know if a proper weaning off over time was done, or whether she was just taken off the Lovan abruptly. If Keisha was just taken off the Lovan abruptly, I am not surprised that her behaviours got a lot worse. Humans have to taper off gradually from SSRI meds, and dogs have to as well.

Cheers,

ricey

Hi all,

Keisha ( my new foster Amstaff from Staffy and Bully Breed Rescue here in Perth WA) is on a daily 40mg dose of Lovan (Prozac/fluoxetine) for anxiety. She gets very anxious around other dogs and I am not sure whether it is dog aggression or fear, as I'm not about to let her off lead to find which it is LOL. When I say she is anxious, it is a bit of an understatement; she is majorly distressed; whining, salivating, commissures pulled right back and up, shaking her head, pulling both towards and away alternately from the dog she has seen. Hackles are up, tail is up and flicking side to side. Around people she is the most relaxed and calm of dogs, and is only just a little bit pushy for human attention . Keisha is great with kids and quite submissive with them.

Apparently Lovan is considered to be very appropriate for treating anxiety in dogs and the 40mg daily dose is about right for her size (she is 33kg, but probably should be 35kg and I am working on that).

My question is this to anyone who has experience with Lovan for dogs; does it have to be dispersed in water as it says on the medicine packet? I have tried to get Keisha to take it this way by dissolving the 2 tablets in a small amount of water and pouring the water (maybe 30ml or so) onto some of her favourite food, but she won't touch it. After this had happened a few times, I dipped my little finger in the solution and tasted it! Yecccch! It tasted like a cross between licorice, aniseed and paint thinners! Bloody awful and I hope I never taste anything like that ever again. I am not surprised that Keisha won't touch it.

So, is it OK to just hide the two tablets in a chunk of Prota roll and give it to Keisha this way? She swallows the chunk of Prota so quickly that she never gets a chance to taste the Lovan.

Cheers, and thanks in advance for any advice,

ricey

canis lupus familiaris, without a doubt!

ricey

I seem to attract stray dogs, or maybe I just am on the lookout for them whenever I'm out. I carry two collars and two leads in my car's glove box as . My usual course of action when finding a stray is to get them scanned by my local vet and this usually gets more than 50% of them back with their owners (who get a mild lecture from the vet lol). If the dogs are wearing collars with contact details it is all really easy and I wish more dog owners would do this. A few years back two stray pit bulls rocked up at an aged care facility I worked at; both were red nosed reds (intact male and a female). They both had collars and registration tags, but no contact details. I contacted the local rangers but they would not give me any contact details; they said they wanted to impound the dogs. As they were very certainly "Restricted Breed" dogs here in Western Australia, that didn't seem like a good outcome to me. More like a death sentence actually.

I had one of those 'light bulb moments' and contacted a dog refuge that I knew had rehomed pit bulls, gave them the registration tag numbers, and 15 minutes later the hugely relieved owners had phoned me and made arrangements to pick their much loved dogs. A good outcome.

So, well done Scrappy&Monti; making the effort to look after stray dogs is its own reward.

ricey

Hi MM & Steve,

I have been away for a while but I am glad to see that the debate continues. I have to say that some (not all) American Pit Bull Terriers have the most carefully recorded pedigrees of any breed. Recorded pedigrees make a dog somewhat predictable. Personally, I believe that the debate should be about performance breed standards versus conformation breed standards.

Whoops! perhaps I should crawl back under the rock I have been hiding under for the last two years.........

Cheers,

ricey

Hi all,

My lovely, gentle pit bull terrier Hobbes died on the 23rd of March this year. Those of you that had the opportunity to meet him loved him. Those that just saw him on the other side of the street scurried away from that "dangerous dog". Their loss, not Hobbes's; he loved all people unconditionally, and the same for at least 50% of the dogs he met.

Hobbes was somewhere between 14 and a half to 17 years old when he died; a fine age and a fine life. Hobbes has left a hole in my heart but he certainly filled my life a great deal more.

Now that I have had a little time to come to terms with his passing, I think that I will not jump into getting a new dog; well, at least not permanently. I am thinking that fostering is probably the go, and I will be contacting Staffy and Bull Breed Rescue here in Perth shortly. Hobbes was a rescue dog and fostering appeals to me. So many dogs, and not enough homes. Especially not enough homes for the bull breed and pittie type dogs.

ricey

Hobbes went majorly downhill about 4 weeks ago; lethargic, depressed, just lay on the floor.

Took him into my vet, who said "shit, what's happened?"

Blood tests diagnosed ITB (immune thrombocytopenia); basically, Hobbes immune system had decided that his platelets were evil invaders that needed to be destroyed. So, no clotting factor, platelet count was under 10 (its supposed to be 175 to 450).

Treatment was prednisolone; after 1 week, platelet count was 50, and after 3 weeks platelet count was 350.

So, the prednisolone dose is being reduced and it looks like Hobbes is cured again.

As my vet said, "Hobbes keeps getting knocked to the canvas, but he keeps getting up and dusting himself off".

Fingers crossed.

ricey

We have been feeding roo for years, it is their main protein source. They also happily eat lamb brisket, chicken frames, turkey wings etc. Never had a dog turn their nose up at other food LOL

Yeah, me neither! All my dogs (past and present) have had roo meat as their main protein source, but they'll eat just about anything. Hardly what you would call 'fussy eaters'...

ricey

Seems to me the real problem is people aren't taking responsibility for their dogs, or for making sure they have some understanding OF dogs before they choose to interact with, or own them. Regardless of breed.

Why is that? Less familiarity? No longer a visible , actively talked about part of our culture?

Certainly becoming less so, and easy to see how that will lead to fewer people having any understanding of their responsibilities, or familiarity with the species before choosing to become involved with it.

I think Bill Bruces ideas work when the community is involved AS a community WITH dogs.

Instead of a community, whos dogs mustn't be a relevant part of it.

Yes moosmum, very much so.

Bill Bruce put a lot of time and effort into including the community in his vision. And it worked well while BB was in charge. All it takes is a visionary LOL!

Can't see too many Aussie head rangers stepping up to the plate though; poor bastards have more than enough to do dealing with the aussie dog owners who can't contain their dogs , pick up their poo, or train them successfully in any way at all.

The older I get, the more misanthropic I get (but the more canophilic).

ricey

I'd encourage anyone attending to ask the hard questions.

Would you care to share with us just what you think are the hard questions the attendees should be asking Bill Bruce?

ricey

While the VIC dog laws are absurd, the "Calgary Model" is not universally applauded in Calgary.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/relationship-between-breed-specific-laws-and-dog-bites-unclear-studies

I'd encourage anyone attending to ask the hard questions.

As for that article, the findings are open to interpretation.

Winnipeg instituted a breed ban on pit bulls in 1990. That city’s council banned the breed in light of a “series of really bad pit bull attacks,” according to Leland Gordon of Winnipeg’s Animal Service Agency.

“In Winnipeg, has the pit bull ban worked? Absolutely, because they’re not here,” he told the Herald.

A 2012 study by researchers at the University of Manitoba found a decrease in the number of hospitalizations caused by dog bites for the 16 regions within the province that had enacted breed-specific legislation.

“What we found is where the legislation was enacted, then the number of bites was reduced relative to places where the legislation wasn’t enacted,” said Dan Chateau, one of the authors of the study and a research scientist at the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy. “How strongly we can claim that one caused the other, that is a little bit still up for debate but the relationship is definitely there.”

A linked article in the article quoted by sandgrubber said this:

The man who crafted Calgary’s bylaw for responsible pet ownership is weighing in on a public debate about whether the city needs new restrictions to curb dog biting, particularly among pit bulls.

Bill Bruce, former long-time director of Calgary animal and bylaw services, said a breed ban on pit bulls would be counterproductive. He said it’s up to dog owners to make sure their pet is well-trained in order to prevent bites.

“Your dog cannot think. Your dog actually makes very poor decisions on its own,” Bruce said.

“It needs leadership and that comes from responsible pet ownership. You want to be so careful in your legislation that you’re not negatively impacting responsible people.”

Bruce served in the position from 2000-2012, during which the city created its Responsible Pet Ownership Bylaw. Bruce said the bylaw is based on the principles of owners spaying and neutering pets, providing the proper training, socialization, exercise and medical care, and ensuring pets are not a threat or nuisance in the city.

Earlier this week, Calgary saw five dog attacks in five days, many involving pit bulls, prompting Calgary animal and bylaw services to call for higher licensing fees and greater fines for owners of certain dogs that bite. There has been some debate about whether Calgary should institute a breed ban on pit bulls, following cities such as Winnipeg and Denver, as well as the province of Ontario.

But Bruce said breed bands are ineffective.

“If you look at the Ontario numbers, you look at the Winnipeg numbers, they haven’t gone down in bite numbers,” he said. “Yes, they’ve got less bites by pit bulls, but their bite numbers are generally up.”

Bruce said a ban would lead owners to replace their pit bulls with other aggressive dogs.

“All dogs can and will bite,” he said. “All that happens is your bites shift to another breed.”

Beth O’Connor, a certified dog trainer and behaviourist with Cultured Canines in Calgary, said pit bulls are no more difficult to train and socialize than other dogs, nor are they more inherently dangerous.

“They’re a very excited breed,” she said. “They have a lot of energy, and energy and aggression are very closely tied.”

O’Connor said many pit bull owners don’t understand the importance of socializing their dog. She said controlled training classes teach dogs how to interact with each other, which can prevent future aggressive behaviour.

She said breed isn’t a factor in a dog’s likelihood to bite, rather, people are more likely to report being bitten by a more powerful dog like a pit bull.

Alice Nightengale, the director of Denver animal protection, said Denver’s pit bull ban comes down to a matter of “severity” of the bite. A study conducted from 2007-2012 on dog bites in Colorado by the Coalition for Living Safely with Dogs found that pit bulls were the second-leading breed that bit behind Labrador retrievers.

On Thursday, Ward 2 Coun. Joe Magliocca told the Herald he planned on “putting in a motion” for “next council meeting” which would make muzzles mandatory for dogs in public, regardless of breed, until they are trained, followed by wearing a coloured bandana corresponding to how dangerous they are. After a receiving a backlash of complaints, he backed away from the comments Friday.

“You can never enforce a bandana and I would never put the City of Calgary in jeopardy like that if anything was to happen,” he said.

Magliocca also said muzzling a dog should be an owner’s choice if they have a larger dog.

O’Connor said muzzling a dog until it is trained would have a detrimental impact. She said dogs communicate through body language, often involving their mouths. It’s at that training stage when they learn the difference between a bite and a soft nip.

“That will cause aggression because the dogs are not learning how to socialize properly,” she said.

“The muzzle will just piss them off and they won’t interact with each other. When they do go to interact with each other, they won’t know how to do it and that’s when fights will start.”

Did anyone notice this quote?

Alice Nightengale, the director of Denver animal protection, said Denver’s pit bull ban comes down to a matter of “severity” of the bite. A study conducted from 2007-2012 on dog bites in Colorado by the Coalition for Living Safely with Dogs found that pit bulls were the second-leading breed that bit behind Labrador retrievers.

Anyone here on DOL calling for the banning of Labradors?

ricey

Bites are going up in Calgary ever since Bill Bruce retired in 2012 and the program is not getting the same sort of funding and priority as it once was. Like anything, if you don't continue to resource an effective program it will start to fail.

Yes, this is so sad. Bill Bruce put an immeasurable amount of effort into making his vision work, and I thought that it was inevitable that it would stumble when he retired. Having said that, it does not mean that his model will fail. All it needs is to be driven by a person or people that have his clarity of thought and his drive. I am sure that there are DOLers that are up to the task.

ricey

Me, I think this is bullshit. But nothing humans do can surprise me so maybe it was ridgy didge.

If only we could ask the dog, we'd get the honest answer.

The cops won't be interested as they more than enough on their plate already.

ricey

Thanks for all the lovely replies; I really appreciated them.

Hobbes' results are back and everything is fine. No malignancy, just heaps of benign haematomas and scar tissue. Hobbes has a new lease of life; he is prancing about like a young pup again.

I had thought that he was just getting old quickly over the last 3 months and that his time was near. But now, 10 days after his surgery he is back to how he was before his decline started.

Cheers,

ricey

Hi

We are in Bayswater, and now only have 2 dogs. Lizzie, the corgi/cream kelpie/lab/dingo/ferret cross, and Hobbes, our senior pit bull type dog. We did have three, but Lulu the fluffy and completely untrustworthy with kids maltese/shih Tzu cross shuffled off 3 months ago.

ricey

Hi all,

After losing Lulu (our little fluffy hyena/hell hound terrier) only 3 months ago, we thought that it was Hobbes turn to die.

Hobbes is our gentle, 14 year old pit bull terrier type dog (possibly 15 year old APBT). I had thought that he was just slowing down and showing a bit of old dog doggy dementia, and that he was just developing a bit of an old dog belly/gut. But I thought I'd get my vet to check him over again. I'd taken him in for the full 'senior dog' exam and tests 4 months ago, and everything was fine apart from a mild anaemia. Nothing too much to worry about, we were reassured. Hobbes is after all 14 or possibly 15 years old.

Turns out the 'mild anaemia' was actually a sign of the huge splenic mass he was developing and this needed to be removed as soon as possible. It was removed today; I am happy to say that Hobbes survived the operation (all vital signs 100% according to the vet surgeon) and he will be with us for some time (how much time depends on the his life expectancy at the age of 14/15, and whether the splenic mass is malignant or not). We get the pathology results in 5 days time.

Were we crazy to spend the money we did on Hobbes, to give him a chance at another 6 to 12 months life at best (and possibly only 1 or 2 months if the splenic mass turns out to be a hemangiosarcoma?)

Nope, we love our dogs. Best case scenario is that the mild doggy dementia that Hobbes had been exhibiting for the last few months will go away now that his spleen has been removed, and Hobbes will die of old age sometime in the next 6 to 18 months. Worst case is that the splenic mass was a hemangiosarcoma and he's got around 2 months before we'd need to euthanize him. If we'd done nothing, we'd have had to euthanize next week due to the pressure on his lungs and other organs.

I will be gutted if Hobbes's has a hemangiosarcoma, but I'd prefer that to having had him euthanized because that was the best thing from a economic viewpoint.

ricey

Lulu went well; I think she would have been better served by going the day before but in the end she died a good death with her humans around her and stroking her, and then the pain was gone.

I am not one to believe in an afterlife or any such stuff so we will not meet again. I am very glad to have known her. Feisty little shit, all 11kg of her, that didn't know how or why to back down from a 50kg Rottweiler male pup. Some would call that stupid, but I'd like to think of it as brave.

ricey

Thanks moosmum & juice & Marg & Lab Tested and everyone else who has commented on my post.

It is now nigh on a week and a half since Lulu shuffled off her mortal coil (with some friendly helping by Nembutal and with her family around her). We took her back home so Hobbes and Lizzie could have a farewell sniff of her and know she was gone. I had thought that that I would not have been so affected by Lulu's passing. I was wrong and I miss her far more than I thought I would.

Go well, little girl.

There is something a little unfair about dogs having a life span less than 2 decades when we humans get 6 or 7 or more decades.

Maybe we get more than we deserve while our dogs get short-changed.

Lulu got what she wanted and chewed off every minute of it.

Go well, little girl.

ricey

Our little girl has gone. The kind vets at Morley Vet helped her this afternoon. It was the kindest thing to do.

We brought her back to our house afterwards, so that Hobbes and Lizzie could have one last sniff to know she was not coming back. Both were calm, and a little subdued.

There is now a place dug deep in our backyard that is forever Lulu; it pairs with the hole in our hearts that she leaves behind.

ricey

Thank you all for your caring replies. Today, Lulu is refusing food and water. Food; you can go days without food but water is another thing altogether. No water kills you quickly. I have tried wiping her lips with a wet cotton ball, but she retracts from that and turns her head away.

We will be taking her to our vet (Morley Vet at Rudloc Street, Morley WA) tomorrow. Unfortunately, our preferred vet, Rodney Sundra, is not on duty till Thursday but I don't think we should wait that long. I had hoped to get Rodney's opinion on what the best thing is to do for Lulu. If she is not drinking tomorrow morning, I think it is certain what the humane thing is. Time to go. Go well, little girl.

Thank you all,

ricey

Hi all,

I am jumping the gun and posting this a little early.

Lulu, my much loved and feisty little Maltese/Shih Tzu/silky/evil hell hound is not much longer for this world. One kidney was removed around 2 years ago or more, and now the other one is shutting down. Most of her other internal organs are showing signs of solidarity with her and they are going out in sympathy.

Shit! She is only 15 years old and I had expected her to go one for ever. Lulu survived mast cell tumour, chemotherapy, and a nephrectomy. She has lost a lot of weight lately; she weighs 8.5kg when she should weigh 12kg. When you stroke her, you can feel her skeleton as if she had no flesh and no fur. I try to over feed her but nothing sticks to her sides. The only thing she will eat now is roo meat. I figure that is high protein and high calorie, and I try to add a bit of Prota roll and good quality kibble. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I am going to try Hills Science diet 'Mature Adult Active Longevity Original'. I have to admit that the name of the kibble is ringing my bull-shit meter's alarm bells, but I'll give it a go. Much like someone karking it from cancer deciding that there might be something in Reike healing or homeopathy that will help them. Perhaps a dollop of black salve smeared over my fungating melanoma will make me well again...

So I am preparing to say goodbye to my little Lulu; Hobbes the pit bull is dominated by Lulu the Maltese/Shih Tzu and always has been, but he will be distraught. No more will Lulu climb on top of him and hump him. He will miss that; any attention from the boss lady is good attention.

Yeah, I am going to miss my little Lulu belle. Disregarding the family dogs we had when I was a child or teenager, Lulu was my first dog. I'd never have got into dogs in general or American Pit Bull terriers in particular if it wasn't for Lulu. I am sort of glad that Lulu's personality was in Lulu, not Hobbes the pit bull. Hobbes would have been a very scary dog if he had Lulu's personality, and he would not be the gentle and kindly dog that he actually is. Lulu is by every definition. a bitch but I do love her.

So I am going to spend a bit of time with Lulu over the next weeks and hopefully months, as a month or two is the maximum our vet thinks she has.

Peter

I am sorry for your loss. It is something that we dog people experience many times as we often make it to 85 years or so, but our canine companions are lucky to see out 15 years.

Just make sure your next companion's life is as special as you made Kiska's life and be proud of what you give them.

ricey

Once off fee here in Western Australia.

ricey

Hobbes ate a whole cow thigh bone in around 20 minutes once.

It gave him such a bad case of constipation that he had 4 enemas under anaesthetic and the vet thought they'd have to open him up. $1,500 later he was fine.

On another occasion, he managed to find a plastic bag full of dog treats so he ate the whole bag. I had to pull the bag out of his arse as he could not quite manage to squeeze it out.

ricey