persephone

definitely speak with the behaviourist and consulting vet first..and ,if possible see the dog . Poor thing- it does sound severe- and I'm guessing a bark collar will not be taking away any of that anxiety I don't know ..,but 'perhaps' the behaviour may be different in another environment ,without the same triggers? *sigh* Poor lady, and poor dog.

Perhaps- instead of occasional marrow bones- which are very hard- and don't have much nutrition (except the marrow- which can cause upset tummies as it is FAT).. why not feed softer bones every day or two? That way they get regular chewing ..and a meal ..and you have less time to have to keep them separate Bones like chicken frames , turkey wings/necks/lamb flaps (with rib bone sections..) Beef brisket.

julzjc.... hi. just hoping you are OK - whatever the news was . Indie has been much in my thoughts.

The 'conscientious objectors' were the ones who went out & did the work .. There are some pretty horrific descriptions of the live animal procedures .. and tales of students obtaining recently deceased animals from farms. Most seem to be O'seas though , the majority being from the US. There are lots of cadaver use stories .. and an interesting point of view from a vet who is Buddhist . It was an interesting read - hasn't changed my mind , altho it has given me some understanding of the difficulties facing students. Mind you, I did a quick read thru only ...

'shelter' animals , and spey/castration clinics, apparently.

The book "Learning without Killing' is online HERE I have just given it a quick read... it's basically a manual on how to carry out the conscientious Objection .... and it also has stories from vets who have done so, and how they fared, what they used as alternatives , and what they learnt. There are lots of pages of references and sources for resources.

Hmm... often no news is bad news .I hope Julzjc is OK.

cowanbree - sometimes though, an animal IS calmer without a stressed owner holding it/hovering over it ,and therefore procedures often go much more smoothly

I can't imagine a pound going to the trouble/expense of getting speys done after hours! ?

This sounds a bit odd ... But if it is all as you say - then get your friend to contact the breeder of their dog/s .. and inform them . Perhaps they can help?

*nods*

Luckily, distressing incidents area rarity when it comes to that final needle .. it's an awful time for everyone, and it does leave a horrible final memory picture. I think I've shared this before ..but it is an image which helps me a lot... The vet where I worked had a litter of unwanted newborn puppies brought in to be put down..... so - we made up a bed in a box ..put a hot water bottle in .. and injected them into the abdomen with the lethabarb.. The dear little things just snuggled up onto the hot water bottle ..all in a cuddly heap, and went peacefully to sleep for ever after a few minutes .. it was just so gentle .... I sometimes use this story of their passing to describe to folks that it really can be a gentle ending ....

With old/ill cats - with veins hard to use , we sometimes used to inject into a kidney ... and with tiny babies .. an injection into the abdominal cavity . These methods work, and in puppies, it just takes a few minutes . Poor veins are a hazard in human medicine as well

Comfrey is usually applied externally as a paste/poultice . There are concerns that,taken internally it can cause liver problems...

Sorry for your friends .. I have seen it happen , veins can collapse due to illness.. or the needle can go straight thru .. or get blocked- and yes, it does make it very hard to watch.If we thought things may be difficult, we would ask owners to just step out for a minute .

Hi - Good for you in seeking help I would strongly advise you to seek the help of a well respected professional on this one. It is something which needs to be handled in the right way, so as to not make things worse for your poor boy Sounds as if he has always had a bit of a problem.. but this fright has made him very anxious If you tell us where you are /city/town then someone on here who knows a good professional can recommend them to you . It is preferable to get someone 'known' rather than muck aorund with unknown franchises etc. I hope all ends well, and that your boy can be happy again.

Hey-

budgieW- perhaps ask you parents about this story- ask them to explain it now you are adult ;)

..and , to be a bit more graphic .. young vets-in-the-making need to FEEL with their fingers different textures and thicknesses of things- they need to SMELL odours which may be so useful , and they need to SEE organs behaving normally , what cancers look like, how a body reacts to pregnancy ....

I guess the same way any vet does .. by assessing all the vital signs , and seeing that things are working as they should .Obviously no healing takes place - but there should also be no bleeding , or poor breathing - all that stuff and much more.

Still thinking of you ....

As for students practising their skills at Vet surgeries .... would you want your dog to be the subject? Yes, they do watch, and learn ..but actual surgery, watching how the body reacts, just seeing how the inside of an alive, breathing body works- and what happens when you do X .. that learning is priceless, and I am pleased that the poor dogs/cats who otherwise would have just been needled are contributing to the health/wellbeing of all the loved/owned ones out there. The world is full of unpleasantness, folks - and some of the unpleasant things need to be done for good things to happen. There are MUCH WORSE things happening to dogs & cats & budgies all over the world.!!!

They certainly provide info :D LINK

What a lovely photo of your dear old man Thinking of you :D

Have been thinking of you ....