Janba

I think that is the biggest puzzle for those that believe you can only have breed if you have a physical description that you fashion the dog after. Yet we have the breed, in it's original form, in it's original registry, still desiring the original goal, which is the the worlds premier sheepdog. How do they look? Head down, tail low tense, ready, eye, brave, the foot of a chameleon ever so slowly forward to meet the ground, a bolt of light, hockey pucks, and the quiver of a motor that is ready. You can't miss it once you seen it. BTW I read today that Old Hemp quivered with excitement when waiting at the post to be sent, yes the quiver that is what they look like. I know that quiver - someone once commented that my dog was developing parkinsons disease.

I was under the impression that the standard were drawn up to describe a dog which could fulfill his duties in the best manner. I don't think the standards were drawn up just for the show ring. And working dog and show dog standards should be the same. The better breeders do produce dogs which can win in the ring - and work....whatever that work happens to be. People who seek dogs which will work stock rarely seek it in show circles, so "show line" dogs rarely get an opportunity to work. However some acquit them selves well at trials - and the very few who are actually working, seem to do so in a competent manner. The problem is that instinct and working ability plays a huge role in the breeding of working dogs, and that isn't tested in the show ring or against a breed standard, but is highly heritable and is lost if not selected for. I know there are breeds that can't really be tested for their original purpose any more. I do see show bred dogs working for their purpose but not to the consistently to the standard of the working dogs. That standard can be regained but it needs to be selected for. ETA I have a dog who isn't the best trail dog, though he is advanced, but he is a very good working dog when you need to get a job done. I will get flamed for this but I see nothing wrong with breeding a dog to the show standard and producing good temperamented, sound, healthy pups that make good companion dogs because that is what the demand is for most breeds now. I don't believe that beeding a dog to a comformation standard without selecting for working ability will produce good working dogs that are capable of real work not just the trial ring. ETA I have a dog who is not a top trialling dog but is an excellent working dog when you need to get a job done.

Well all I can say is close to a million working border collie dog owners and breeders disagree with you. Get my drift yet? That seems like such a not nice thing to say to someone. Oh and you know them all shortstep I am seeming to think that you may have difficulty in knowing what Standards were drawn up for. They werent just for the show ring. Standards were drawn up for the show ring and KC breeding. How many breed standards existed before dog showing became a hobby? In breeds where dogs are still used for their original purpose how many of the best working dogs would win the the show ring. Not many but not because they don't look and work like the breed they are but because they don't conform to the current cosmetic interpretation of the breed standard. To me a working standard is the dog who performs his purpose well regardless of whether his eyes are too light or his ears the wrong shape or his markings aren't fashionable.

I am another for popping down the hill to Karen Hedberg. Very very good vets and reasonably priced.

can I add .. dogs get neutered, bitches get speyed Dogs get castrated either sex can be neutered. In ANKC the term neutered applies to both dogs and bitches. It depends on which vet, which book which website with the term neutered you read as to what it is applied to.

I have been a breeder, bred my first litter 30 years ago but haven't bred a litter for years. I've always intended to breed again but never seem to find the right bitch. Hopefully there will be a bitch that will be right for me in a litter a friend is planning and allowing me some input into the dog she is going to use (both her current prospects are very good dogs).

In research it includes 1 undescended

Surely my thread is entirely non-contentious. I don't think anyone could do battle about something like SAR dogs/sniffer dogs! Border collies apparently make great search and rescue dogs which is why I was curious about why there weren't more Kelpies out there, but border collies are more famous internationally. Some BCs make great SAS dogs . I don't think the lack of kelpies being used as SAS dogs is so much a breed thing but due to the fact that kelpies are not a numerous breed outside of Aust, while BC are a numerous dog all over the world. Kennel Club registered BC are only a very small percentage of the BCs worldwide.

I dont think parts of Australia do? I think some states/councils still allow unlimited dogs per house? nope most councils have a limit of 2 dogs then a permit for the third. council applications for more dogs. no idea why this is news. NSW doesn't.

I clicked on "view new topics" and didn't even notice that it was in the "In the news" section. I almost never browse in a sub forum. I read this thread because of the word cryptorchism. Interesting article

My dally has a coat made of 2 layers of kersey wool for winter and it keeps her nice and warm.

I agree with Huski on this one - most dogs find paddock bashing boring. You need to make training sessions short and enjoyable for the dog and not expect to much too quickly. There are some very good DVDs available on motivational training. I have just started to seriously teach my 4 yr old BC obedience. So far after 2 weeks of training we are doing stationary positions in the heel position with extended focus, a few steps of straight line heeling with focus and awesome stationary right and left about turns with a few steps forward. I am lucky in that my dog is mature, knows how to learn and has the ability to focus for long periods from training in another discipline and is very high drive. ETA At this stage I won't take him to an obedience club but will when he is ready to train with distraction and for his long stays with other dogs.

We don't even know if there was a sign on the gate - none of the media reports say there was.

You make them out to the club holding the show as they will need to be banked into the clubs bank account.

As one of the great unwashed who only has a bachelor degree and the odd diploma, therefore a person with limited capabilities of comprehension, can I try understand what is being said here according to Tralee and my interpretation of them. If a person has a sign on their gate that denies access to the property then a person cannot enter the property without permission. Despite reading the media reports I can find no reference to such a sign on the gate in question but we should assume such a sign was there as any normal person would have such a sign on their gate. The policeman had limited or no dog skills therefore it was his fault he got bitten despite the fact that he was bitten outside the property boundary (i.e. approaching the gate). If this is the case the same should apply if the mailman was bitten or the child down the road delivering pamphlets, though this is less likely to happen as the dogs would probably not be in a highly aroused state caused by what was going on inside the property (which is entirely an assumption on my part). The policemen should have stood well back from the gate and called for the dogs owners to come and restrain his dogs and to ask for permission to enter the property despite the fact that they were responding to a call out on a domestic related incident (police media reports wording). The owner of the dogs was charged with domestic-related offences including assault and two counts of breaching an AVO as well as being the owner of an attacking dog but the incident wasn't bad enough that the police needed instant access to the property.

Which is exactly what his Superior should make undeniably clear to him when he gets out of hospital. We expect, and deserve, competent Law Enforcement not Keystone Cops So he should have shot all 3 dogs so he could gain access to the yard or maybe just waited round till the dogs owner had finished doing whatever he was doing and restrained the dogs. The official police press report said he was attacked as he approached the front gate not when he was on the propery but then again I suppose you think the report is doctored so the police look better and the dog worse. http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/latest_r...0bWwmYWxsPTE%3D

If he wa approaching the front gate as the police media report stated or opening the front gate as the other reports have said the he was still outside the property when the dog bit.

This has nothing to do with the Companion Animal Act or workcover and I can't be bothered going to get my law books and looking it up at this time. Maybe someone like Jeff Jones will come on and illuminate us further. I don't believe that they do. Work Cover will not cover workers who enter properties identified by them as Properties at Risk. A property at risk, as defined by Work Cover, is a property that contains dogs. In NSW, the Companion Animals Act 1998 16 Offences where dog attacks person or animal (1) If a dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal (other than vermin), whether or not any injury is caused to the person or animal: (2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred: (a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or (b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or © as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or (d) in the course of lawful hunting, or (e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock. (3) This section does not apply to a police dog. Just being a Policeman doesn't give them the right to enter private property. They still have to be invited. If they have a Court Order --- different. Otherwise they need to observe all the other OH&S guidelines we all do. I bet Mr Invincible thought his Super Hero cape would be enough.

Whether the policeman was dog savvy or not and whether it was a pitbull or not the police had the right to unimpeded access to the front door. It sound like only the offending dog was seized and the owner was in breach of other orders.

;)

I find the deep bond comes from working your dog not from raising it. The closest bonds with dogs I have had have with those I have done the most training/work with.

Pretty much the same kibble and meat or sardines eggs etc with bone days. I did feed the occassional can then but not as the main diet.

I have 2 next dogs in mind - 1 will be an 8 week old pup from lines I want and the other and will probably come first will be an adult broken in working BC. I know what I want in my next triallng dog and its going to be easier to find that in one that is already working.

Good news

I wouldn't panic uneccessarily until you have had a good dog chiropractor or your vet have a look at him. You could also video his movement and post it so experienced BC people can see what you mean. Pups movement can be all over the place as they grow and you can get a BC who is an unco-ordinated clutz - I have one.