Sandra777

I don't envy your position and if I was you I would be giving him his wings, but I hope you can work something out somehow if this is what you feel you must do. But you really need to step back (hard I know) and think honestly and clearly what is best for him - does he not have a name?? - not what your heart wants to be best for him. to you and your pup at this difficult time.

Ignore the mask - it's a totally different gene inherited entirely separately to colour. You can get a black mask in any colour. Yes a red can have a black mask and be genetically red.

The stafford club has their show in 4 weeks, at Durack show grounds, everyone is welcome. Go to the breed pages here then SBT and the clubs all through Australia are listed Having a litter as we speak - red bitch and brindle dog so far - better get back to it

I think you are describing a fawn brindle? In Staffords the blue overlay in the ''blue fawns'' is what is called smut in the breed - often seen on non-dilute reds and has been virutally been proven to be sable, in other words tan pattern. In Staffords FAWN is an actual colour in the standard as version of ''red'' - which only occurs in the absense of the brindling gene. I'm really not convinced a genetic FAWN colour exists in the breed as a separate gene to the RED but is actually the same gene modified by various factors. In Staffords true RED is a total absense of black hairs so there are no black hairs to be influenced by the dilute gene. Nose nail skin and eye colour in the fawns I have seen are actually extremely dense, most fawns have really dark eyes and black black nails, lips and pads. Not fond of the colour but wow I love their pigment! Yes of course this is so - only problem being that in Staffords the number of good blue-carriers worldwide could be counted on the fingers of one hand without removing your mittens A recent arrival from the UK MAY change this, only time will tell.

Batches are for chickens. Or Scones

Phone around the local vets and ASK! Intestinal worming for adults is another area I wonder at - costs very little to have a fecal exam done once and a while to see if the dogs actually need worming. Oh and no you don't need to do any sort of test prior to giving the dog intestinal wormers - that's heartworm only that you need to do that for.

Went to the dog beach there and it was a freakin nightmare - uncontrollable lunatic dog aggressive dogs everywhere! Ours never got off leash and we only went back there during the week when we had the place all to ourselves and it was great! Can't really help with the recall question but if I wanted to have my dog running around loose with a pack of other dogs which have no recall I would tend to have a pocketful of treats, unleash the dog and see what happens - if she's randomly friendly with people she'll go up to someone even if not come back to you :D

I had a really obese Lab in the kennels once and would get her (small amount!) of dry food and throw it once piece at a time as far as I could (which isn't far actually!) so she would walk/trot and get it, then come all the way back and I'd throw another one. By the end of her small meal she'd probably would have done 10 minutes good walking/trotting exercise. You could do this with bits of apple or carrot too if the dog is the eat anything sort. Definitely small amounts of excercise to start with but regularly through the day.

:D Run free Sophie, you were loved.

Congrats to all the new arrivals, don't think it'll be long to wait here. Put a pillow-bed in the whelping box last night and told China to 'go to bed' which she did with the most long suffering look on her face, then was quite happy when I let her come back out again - only to sneak over about 1/2 an hour later and hop in by herself. This is standard practice for her, she knows where the box is, knows it's hers and will go there when she wants to. She spent the rest of the evening upside down in the middle of the lounge floor under the ceiling fan ;)

Interesting - thank you for the information. The bolded bit ties in with what I would have thought, the colour info not so much I remember reading about the Orloff (?) Trotter developed in Russia in the 1800's somethings, sire mated to daughter for 5 or 6 generations. Now THAT would give Mr Wirthless and his friends heart failure ;)

And my guess is that you have as little interest in the beliefs of the 10 second experts as I do ;) Are you saying that it is illegal to breed dilute to dilute somewhere in the world? I don't disagree that the dog laws are bordering on the insane, but I wasn't aware that they had stretched quite as far as outlawing the breeding of dilute to dilute.

:D

Not in my book. If the creators of the Wei set out today, to create a great working dog and it just so happened that the best examples of their working dog were dilutes I personally wouldn't have an issue with it. Others no doubt think differently but if you are breeding dogs which are good at their intended function, healthy and have the correct temperament then what colour it is is irrelevant to me. It's when the colour comes first in this equation that it's unethical IMO.

Whelping box all set up, China looking at it with mistrust and distaste :D When she sits her tum sits on her back feet all the way up to her second to front nipples she is much bigger than with previous litters! I've got 7 pups born on Sunday, OH 6 on Saturday - just hope we don't get both

The creators of the Weimaraner started with a plan to breed a dog with specific traits which were useful to them. I honestly doubt they started with a plan to breed a grey dog THERE is the big difference. No one seems to know how dilute alopecia is come-by but if it is genetic then the Wei breeders obviously removed those dogs from the original gene pool pretty quickly. If it is an automatic result of having a dilute colour and not inherited as a separate trait then Weis would be affected, which apparently they aren't.

I'd venture to suggest that the people who 'created' the Wei had a purpose in mind which didn't involve $$$$ so any dog which displayed unwanted problems would have been disposed of - be that a lack of working ability or a failure to maintain good health. If it happened to be the 'right' colour too bad, it couldn't do the job so off it went. Yes and no IMO. Breeding FOR a colour will always compromise other things - it has to if the least important thing about the dog (the colour of it's hair) becomes the most important trait when chosing breeding stock. But did the originators of the Wei specifically breed for the colour or were they creating a working dog and it just so happened that the best two or three examples were that colour so the colour had nothing to do with them being chosen for breeding stock? I have no doubt that it is possible to breed a healthy, well conformed, typical SBT in Blue (well actually I know for a fact that it is possible, I've bred blues which have had no issues, I have seen 3 really nice blues with no issues in the flesh) BUT - why would you want to? Why not breed really good dogs and be happy with whatever colour they happen to be? IMO - as soon as colour becomes even a vague consideration something else has to be sacrificed in the list of priorities.

Mesh as suggested or electric wire around the bottom of the fence (maybe not feasible with kids?) Yep, once they've figured out that fences aren't impregnable they are beggars to keep home.

Just looking at the adverts on here (which I try to avoid as it gets my blood pressure up ) it certainly looks like it's getting harder for the colour breeders to sell their wares. I'm finding too that a lot of people are finally figuring out that a dog with basic structural faults (basic to ALL breeds) are less likely to live a normal and happy life.

I never said the dog was not cute, I said I did not personally find him cute. I don't find all puppies invariably cute - in fact puppies of some breeds and crosses I personally find quite repulsive (and some I don't think look that great as adults either ) But dee_al you ask what is wrong with your dog. As a pet which is why you bought him - not a thing. For the show ring, what does it matter, you stated very clearly you have no interest in showing him anyway. And the first thing you need to learn about the show ring is that a dog wins on it's virtues so if you decide to take an interest in showing you need to know what is right with your dog, not what is wrong. Any idiot can find fault in even the finest dog.

Nope. I do not find that puppy cute. But since he's not my dog what does it matter what I think of him? The question was why can't I show my blue and the answer was you can but don't be surprised if you don't win because blues as a general rule (not her blue specifically) lack the physical virtues required to make it in the ring. No one made any negative comment about the ability of a blue to be a great pet, have a great temperament etc etc etc. If you then post a picture of a dog (whether it's a good picture or not, or even actually a picture of her dog or not) you have to reasonably expect people to comment on whether or not that specific dog as portrayed in that specific picture looks to have the quality to make it in the ring or not. ETA: to casowner. Some of the reason dogs of any breed are sold on main register when they lack show potential could be their breeders don't care about the welfare of the breed as a whole OR their breeders don't know the difference between pet quality and show potential OR their breeders have such an amazing ability to screen puppy buyers they never sell to someone who will breed from a substandard dog OR their breeders are money-hungry BYB's who think they will get more money for a MR pup than a LR one. And no, I have not yet met someone who was told of the possible negative outcomes of breeding for colour rather than health, temperament and conformation when they bought their puppy.

Since Staffords weren't bred to bring down bulls I am somewhat puzzled by your logic There are several written records quoting old time Stafford men stating the best dogs they had seen in the fighting pit were 'pigeon blue' and one of the two dogs on which the original standard was based was a blue fawn. I don't think many have any objections to the colour per se, just to the assumption that if it's blue it's 'pretty' or 'cute' because it's blue, and the idiotic prices charged for frankly bad and unhealthy dogs. Personally I don't see a show dog in the picture posted. Personally I don't see much cute about the dog in the picture either. Is he a great pet? Well then he's fulfilling the function for which he was bought and that's great. As for 25% developing dilution alopecia, well add that to the huge number of very badly bred Staffords which develop other skin issues (primarily allergy related) then you have a fairly high number of badly bred BLUE Staffords which will develop either alopecia OR allergy issues OR both. People who breed for colour are in no way interested in what is best for the breed, regardless of what breed that may be.

Google blue Dobermanns. But I do agree with you - the vast majority of skin problems in Staffords are caused by bad breeding practices, be they red blue or brindle. Sadly many vets see a Stafford and rub their hands together with the thought of years of skin issues, they see so many badly bred examples of the breed that they have come to expect it.

Er, no. If your OH's red Stafford had a brindle gene it would be brindle. Reds don't carry the brindle gene.

The only reason you can't show ANY dog is if it is not on main register. Who told you that you couldn't show your dog????? What would being a solid colour have to do with anything - you can show brindle Staffords and pied ones do pretty well, brindle is even in the breed standard As Ellz has already said. Blues can't have a black nose but honestly there's plenty of dogs with much more serious faults than this that win week after week. IF I had a blue which was a good example of the breed I would show it. I have seen three blues which I would consider show quality - 2 in the UK and one in Australia so I don't fancy your chances of having stumbled across one! None of these dogs was bred or kept because it was blue. You can show black and tan Staffords if you want to, I have seen a liver win a CC at a large show under a so-called terrier expert and another become a champion (in weak competition admittedly). The Staffordshire Bull Terrier standard doesn't have any disqualifications, so there is no reason you can't show any dog. Whether you'd win or not is a totally different story.