Sandra777

No. The regulation prohibits brother-sister father-daughter and mother-son matings only. Is this too close - IMO it depends totally on the knowledge you have about the good and bad points (especially the bad health points :) ) of the dogs. No mating is too close or "just right" based solely on the relationship between the dogs, it depends on so much more than that.

Why does the article start talking about Bull Terriers then go on to talk about APBT's? Why does it not mention at least in passing that these two breeds are about as closely related as say Rottweilers and GSPs? The Bull Terrier was NEVER bred as a bull baiting dog - that's the Bulldog. The Bull Terrier is probably the ONLY breed ever deliberately bred for the show ring - it was created with crosses from the old fighting dogs and breeds such as the Pointer & Dalmatian to make a "gentleman's dog" which was white and which looked the part but which was specifically intended to be paraded up the street with it's image-conscience owner and go to dog shows when they came along. Yes, there are the odd report of the occasional Bull Terrier being pitted against an old fighting dog but in the main these would have been more to reassure the "dandy" owners that they were getting something which could do the job, when reality it's unlikely the ones that were any good for fighting went anywhere ;)

Overshot is good - you definitely want to like that :D. The lower jaw keeps growing after the upper has stopped so a "tight" bite or even a "perfect scissor bite" at 6-8 weeks scares the heck out of me. I've had a bitch who was close to 1/2 an inch overshot at 12 weeks, had a pefect bite as an adult and it stayed that way all her life (she died at 14).

I wouldn't consider a pup's bite at 4 weeks to be any indication of what it's going to be as an adult. With mine, their teeth aren't even fully erupted by that age so something that looks like it's going undershot often surprises just a few days later. Examine the jaw - the positioning of the upper and lower jaws give you some clue about whether a certain pup might end up undershot but even then, not reliable at 4 weeks. Wait until 6-8 weeks and you may have a faint idea but even then it's a lottery in a bull breed. Have a look at how the molars & premolars line up too - often more reliable than the incisors at a young age.

Hedgehogs can carry ringworm, so keep an eye on him for the 6-8 weeks.

Unfortunately it is perfectly possible to breed multiple litters outside the regulations and still get the pups registered - there's been many examples mentioned on here over the years of the breeder being slapped over the wrist with a wet bus ticket and the litter still being registered - to say nothing of breeding back to back and either selling every second litter without "papers" or "paper hanging". If the breeder has insufficient ethics to care about the welfare of their pups I doubt they would baulk at a "little bit of deception" to ensure they all sell for maximum price "with papers"

These are completely different things. It's perfectly possible for a BYB to breed dogs with "papers". The fact the dog has papers means absolutely nothing about the breeder's ethics. Some people who show are nothing more than BYB's who have an inflated opinion of their own stock. Some people who show are extremely ethical. "Papers" - Showing - neither has any bearing on the ethics or otherwise of the breeder concerned.

Sorry I don't agree even slightly that any specific number of litters be it a large number or a small number in any way indicates the ethics of a breeder.

And then there is any appropriate health testing, heart, eyes, pattelars, depending on breed. I think the point is, though that with some breeders specific pups are "the ones" at birth. If they all fail whatever other tests are required then it's most probable that the whole litter is going to be pet homed. I wouldn't keep "inferior" dogs just because they past health tests, even if their better siblings all failed (hasn't happened, I'm just saying :D ) Only exception would be if I was trying to breed out a specific autosomal recessive condition you could DNA test for, then I could be tempted to do this, but it would depend on the circumstances at the time. Not exactly in a rare breed though so I can understand why other breeders would probably have other priorities. Toller - I have no idea if it's learned or just "the eye" in all cases - for me it has been a long learning curve and not always reliable as I do mostly outcross matings.

Of course it does - but these three things and other things which aren't immediately obvious at birth tend to be largely genetic so are controlled before the pups put in an appearance. Yes of course there's always surprises and disappointments, that's all part of the happy hobby we share

There's always an exception to the rule, but yes, I have found that much of the time the best pup at birth is the best pup at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 5 years.

Dogs full stop I would "hope". Annoys me no end on other boards when someone with a crossbred pup has a problem not one person says talk to the breeder and hit them up for some financial help - but the moment they say it's a purebred pup it's all the breeders fault.

This is the dangerous bit. It could have repercussions for registered breeders as well as pet shops. And so it should,they should all be accountable But the crux of the matter is.....AS IF IT WERE A PERSON RATHER THAN AN INANIMATE PRODUCT. No way. Dogs are certainly animals with feelings and needs and emotions, but they are not PEOPLE where "pain and suffering" can be measured in an emotional manner such as in the case of a woman who is raped or a child who is abused - emotional suffering rather than physical I mean. Yes, shonky breeders who don't take all reasonable care should be accountable for the shonky "product" they produce, but the emotional suffering of the "product" - no sorry that is a human term to me. Very dangerous territory for the reputable breeder because the next step is even if you take all reasonable care a pup you breed could end up with a problem and even if that problem is unforseeable the breeder is sued for not only the actual cost of medical care but ALSO the "emotional suffering" of the pup? No thank you!

True and a tiny amount of research would have informed her not to buy where she did. Will legislation like this be playing right into the hands of the animal rights movement after all they don't want any of us owning animals and I would think this is the first step in that process. Too true. A VERY scary preceedent could be set with this courtcase.

I mated a bitch on a silent season, had a perfectly normal litter (she wasn't a maiden). She went on to have all sorts of hormonal issues though, so not sure I'd do it again. She would come in season every 3 months, never had a silent season after that one though. I had her spayed. Her only daughter (not from the silent heat litter) I have good records for cycled normally but she only ever conceived very small litters for the breed.

I have never owned a neutered male. Spaying depends on the bitch. some are spayed at 5 or so, some never. Because we can't show spayed bitches in the main stream shows (specialities are the thing for me) I avoid spaying them if they're still competitive show dogs unless, obviously!, it's required for their health. Yes I have had a bitch spayed during a caesar, didn't seem to make any difference to her at all. Not saying this would be the case with all bitches or in all circumstances. She was spayed because she was carrying a single pup which on x-ray was obviously huge so it was an elective caesar, not sure I would do it during an emergency caesar. ETA: OOps she wasn't spayed BECAUSE she was carrying a single pup it was her last litter regardless, she had a caesar because it was a singleton

Mmm - yes last year was pretty bad - haven't been to a show like that since the infamous Katikati show My poor little black girl was up to her fetlocks in water and still got attacked by green ants (yes she had repellant on too - obviously it doesn't work under water!) The drive home was horrendous, but of course nothing as bad as what happened the next day

Oh dear. Please, contact the Stafford club :D

We'll be there - first outing for the 2 baby boys. Less WATER this year please!

$800 to $1200 as Aussie has already suggested. I can't make any recommendations but there are at least two very busy Stafford puppy farms in South Australia. I would suggest they contact the breed club.

I don't think 7 or even 9 is all that old for a Toy Poodle, they tend to live a pretty long time from what I understand! But it does depend on her general health of course Can definitely relate to the cost thing and you do have to be honest and consider this right up front - we aren't all made of money I have had a dog which went blind, she was about 10 when it began to really affect her. She lived until she was almost 16 and although there were a few problems along the way, she seemed perfectly happy and still came for walks (on lead obviously) and to the beach until she was about 14 and a half. Depends a lot on the dog and their temperament - some will cope without a problem some you need to work with. Sight is an important sense for dogs but not as important as it is for us, so you have to avoid thinking of it in human terms. My old girl was definitely more affected when her hearing started to fail, but of course she was already blind then plus much older and more "frail" but we definitely noticed much more of a change in her demeanour then than when she lost her sight. In her case there was no operation that was going to help so I just had to make the best of it.

Does this rule apply to 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister matings , I had a look at the rules and could not find any more info No. The rule states father/daughter, mother/son and brother/sister.

IMO this would be a question for the vet who suggested the diet. My guess would have been skins on as there's lots of nutrients in potato skins, but honestly, ask the vet.

The name of a dog is a totally different proposition and I'm not at all surprised this has happened. At one point there were four bitches with exactly the same name (obviously not the same prefix ) in the same breed in the ring at the same time, all within 6 weeks of age of each other. The rego forms were probably all at the KC at the same time in this case and they were all allowed because the prefix is different.

AFAIK the decision is made in Australia - after all you are registering the prefix in Australia! But they do check overseas registries before they decide to allow it or not.