Are You Serious Jo

Was it the UQ petition thread, you did write some doozies in there If it was that one you are referring to don't sweat it, I was too busy laughing to be offended or report you, no harm done.

Moselle, have you had any education on genetics or been a long term breeder of dogs?

I've seen some Godawful shih tzu/maltese crosses over the years, you take two different types of conformation and cross them and you end up with disasters. Especially the mouths, all over the place, and the coats . I haven't seen one cross of those breeds that could hold a candle to a pure of either breeds.

That's what I was thinking, what if you threw out dogs who had a syrinx and it proved to be a harmless co-occurrence?

I think you'd have to compensate breeders if you mandated that, because it is costly and SM isn't a big problem. If no compensation was available then a lot of small breeders would walk away, again losing valuable dogs and data. I think if we could determine more about SM in our dogs then they could be used over in the UK. One of the biggest hurdles though is the anti-breeder mentality bought about by hysterics and PDE. That battle is as big as the one to understand SM.

To put it in perspective, you need to get ethics committee approval to even observe animals, operating on conscious animals would never happen, EVER. PM you've done what everyone should do, actually read about it and not get sucked into highly emotive language designed to mislead people.

Now don't forget there are limits on inbreeding coefficients, so if you do happen to stumble on a line free of some genetic disease you can't work towards growing that line, they will force you to outcross and bring in the deleterious genes again. If you take out enough dogs through breeding exclusion and don't allow inbreeding then that breed will be gone. Because we don't have SM as such a problem in Australia then the people who are hysterical about it will destroy a breed because of a problem that exists in another country.

Comparative tests are time consuming, and unless the person doing it was competent then it would be a waste of time. If one of the anti-breeder researchers did it the outcome would be biased as they'd be only looking for what proves their theory. Good research is never easy but it is doable. Choosing the factors to include is the hardest part. I did one as an assignment in uni, looking at birds colouring, either monochromatic (both sexes identical) or dichromatic (sexes different). In that case I looked at all life history traits, eg age to maturity as well as environmental, diet etc. You need a nice long list so you can see if your species tends to fall into certain groups, for example lorikeets would fit into the highly social category. So if you found lots of other species that were monochromatic had large social groups you could conclude that they were correlated. It would rely on breeder honesty as well as good empirical data.

I don't think SM is common at all over here, in the UK it is a problem, but our lines aren't the same. Testing is a mixed blessing though, it can give complete peace of mind that the dogs should be free of something when in fact testing is just one tool used, especially in conditions that aren't yet understood. I would say a better way of finding the etiology of SM would be a huge comparative study, what do you find in common with dogs that develop SM other than the syrinx. This type of test is routinely done by ecologists to see what traits might be used for, and I think it would work with dogs, if applied correctly and with a large enough sample size.

If it turned out to be that simple then I'd say so, but I'd hazard a guess that there is another unknown factor involved that causes dogs with a syrinx to go on to develop SM. It may be the case that the syrinx doesn't cause SM at all, the unknown factor does but having the syrinx facilitates it? Without knowing why some dogs with a syrinx never develop SM I'd be cautious about discarding all dogs with a syrinx.

That's what I thought, there is no clear correlation of presence of syrinx to manifestation of SM.

I'm not a cav person but I don't think it is as simple as that. Cav people correct me if I am wrong, but is SM a bit like HD, the tests don't accurately predict symptoms?

As I said, hoffpig, you signed something you have no clue about, the more posts you make the more obvious it is. I am against invasive painful experiments on animals and my area of expertise is how we can use animal cognition to improve captive welfare. But thank you for your ummm, very colourful assumptions about my career ;)

Ummm, what you have posted about isn't the subject of the petition. I can say with 100% certainty that you are completely clueless about what is happening at UQ, yet you are happy to sign a petition opposing it. Non-recovery surgeries don't involve pain, and food trials are just that, feeding a certain food and taking data on health etc. There is NO vivisection, there is NO drain cleaner dripped into eyes. You are spouting animal lib information from the 80's, that is NOT occurring at UQ. I was involved with a lot of animal stuff at UQ and had a supervisor on the ethics committee and have seen things first hand. You clearly haven't even read about the issue, please go do some research of your own then comment.

Good luck cav people, you really need it Shame this thread can't disappear before it does more damage.

Great, can you please post your address so everyone can send pound dogs that are on the PTS to you, kthxbi.

You should try to find a page that tells you how to make a complaint to the RSPCA themselves, they conveniently have forgotten to add that into their website

This is also the way I think we should move although obviously you have stated it in a very simplistic manner, but the gist of it is very much true in my opinion. The only way to alter the course is for concerned people to become the people who make the decisions. This was actually attempted but very few members of the canine controlling bodies actually had membership applications accepted. This is true. You can inflitrate much easier as a PETA member because if you are a registered breeder your details are basically public and they just refuse membership.

The problem is that PDE is being used by people to end pedigree dog breeding and when that show is supported by a dog person it gives them more ammunition. The fallout from PDE is bad enough already, why put the final nails in the coffin.

Well, we know McGreevy's agenda, so I know he was aware reg breeders will be wiped out, but the others who are thinking puppy farms will go under this legislation, how can they be so blind? I guess that is rhetorical because you only have to see the ignorance in the DOL population on this issue, and people here are supposed to be dog educated. Sad fricken times we live in.

That is what people don't seem to get, they let you think you will be ok under one law, but catch you with the environmental ones. How those who are planning these laws can't see they are actually making it easier for puppy farms is unbelievable. They are basically paving the way for them because puppy farms will just get planning permission and clean up because there will be very few registered breeders left, as they don't breed for profit and can't comply with these new laws. So saying these laws are to stop puppy farms are a joke.

Zahra would be fine with a dog, I am not sure about her being placed with another female. My coolie bitch will play with her, but she resource guards (my girl) and Zahra doesn't back down so have to keep them apart. She has been fine with any dogs I've tried her with and she happily lives with my shih tzu with no issues.

This is the thread about her, any more questions let me know. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=204568&hl=

I have a short haired border collie up for adoption, but sounds like you'd like a full coat one. Let me know if you are interested at all.

If anyone knows of someone looking for a dog to do herding with I have a foster here who shows a lot of potential, and she really needs a home!