Are You Serious Jo

Do you think it could be a more severe form the enzyme disorder to be so unpigmented at that age?

Can you post an example so we can see where it went wrong and tell you the best settings for that subject. Water can be tricky because a lot of the pictures you see will be shot using a polariser and compensating for light. Sun out is generally the enemy of the photographer by the way, it creates too much contrast with the elements in the photo.

I understand that, but I'm talking about the pup that appeared to have lack of pigment around the eye rims and a light nose at a young age. What is happening there? Is it just that they have a more severe degree of the enzyme disorder?

Looks like the genes involved haven't been identified but some other white coat black pigment dogs are e/e and a/a with a possible unknown modifier. So what the pup that appears liver is is anybody's guess.

Ahhh, I remember now that it is a base colour, I've read the dilutes from bases before but completely forgot. I'll go do some googling because my brain is empty :laugh:

I don't know anything about dilute genes in Maremmas, so that's a genuine dilute?

That one doesn't have black eye rims and a light nose at an early age so what is going on there?

I think this needs highlighting for those who can't see the problem.

From what the others say you can't get liver in the Maremmas, so all pink and light noses are the result of the enzyme deficiency?

I did a search for "kennel", "breeding", "breeding establishment" and "housing" and could not find anything that clearly stated all breeders would have to keep their dogs in kennel blocks and were not to be kept inside at all. The relevant section seemed to be referring to boarding kennels and shelters and commercial breeding establishments. I can't submit a response to this if I can't find any reference to it in the taskforce submission. DogsNSW doesn't seem particularly concerned about the kennels thing. Maybe people should read stuff before they start disseminating information and canvassing for support. Just saying. Are you a breeder? I'm guessing not because you don't seem to have a problem with this. People with a lot more knowledge on this subject than me have scrutinised and one person saying it isn't true doesn't make them right. It's real enough that dogsNSW are finally mobilising on this, dogsVic are also starting to sit up because their state is next.

That's right, it does nothing to address the issue of why so many dogs end up in pounds. I would hazard a guess there will be even more because the PFs will take up any slack left from registered breeders, so more PF dogs out there. We know PFs don't care who gets their puppies so those with dogs they aren't really prepared for will still end up in pounds. BYBers will just fly under the radar, all those generic brindle staffy types will still be there long after the registered breeders have walked away.

How does a pink nose dog cope in the Australian sun? Shouldn't the ability to work be the most important trait in the Maremma, what is a Maremma that can't work? If the dog is not fit for purpose then what does it have to contribute to the gene pool? It is well know what happens to pink nose dogs in the sun. How could you ethically put a pink nose dog in the paddock?

Plenty of data about the correlation of sun exposure and melanoma tralee. If everyone was up in arms about something that didn't affect health or working ability then I'd agree with you, but to be concerned about a fault that can cause premature death if the dog goes about it's purpose then it's something that needs to be eliminated from the gene pool. The faults a dog has can be prioritised from affecting health to not, to claim a curled lip is on par with a snow nose is incorrect. Get the basics right then work on improving conformation. If I was going Maremma rather than Anatolian I'd be pretty worried unless I could view all dogs as far back as possible to make sure snow nose wasn't in there.

I see a dog shying away, precisely what the Italians wrote was not acceptable.

Don't be kennel blind, a serious fault on an otherwise good dog doesn't diminish the seriousness of the fault. How would that dog go working here? A dead dog isn't much use in the paddock or the ring.

Ahhh, I see. Obviously then it should be taken for what it is, an attempt to rectify an issue ignored for a bit rather than proclaim that those dogs are overall excellent.

Only hips and elbows or do they have to be outstanding with regards to the standard? Sorry for the questions, I do speak Italian and it's very interesting.

Does this title mean the dogs are of superior conformation or just good breeders?

You've got to be kidding, anyone can title a dog in this country. All that proves is you've entered enough shows and gained enough points. There are Champions across every breed that shouldn't be, let alone be bred from Titled dogs should be a good barometer but they aren't. Haven't you ever heard of a petrol champion? Don't confuse getting a title with quality. Anyone can title a dog as long as it's not Quasimodo like. You need to think beyond champion and look critically of the dogs yourself. I still don't understand why you don't think a fault that is life threatening is acceptable, how can a dead dog work? Baffles me considering you even posted that you know how high the risk is of melanoma in Australia.

I agree, as LGD showing is really in it's infancy it's important to decide now the path that will be followed to prevent that horrible show/work divide in some breeds.

My "quips" are entirely about the betterment and welfare of all dogs. Snow nose is s serious problem and I really believe affected dogs should be culled from the gene pool.

The nose colour is part of the standard so it may be a contributing factor. I do also think they just don't show as well so the dogs with presence are always going to overshadow them.

Maybe the liver noses in some dogs are what prevents the big awards in Ausralia, which is the reason tralee started this thread.

Therefore even more reason to only have black nose dogs!

Weis aren't expected to work outside most their life so for Maremmas it's a serious issue. My coolie is a dilute so I have nothing against it, he doesn't work much but if was out in the sun he'd need sunscreen. You obviously have a very different situation with a working Maremma who may not see people for days, so sunscreen won't work.