Are You Serious Jo

I think if pushed he'll just say he can't expose the source. But another thing that annoys me is a bunch of people saying to Moorook you don't have to prove you are right, just don't worry about it. If I were called a liar I'd be doing everything I can to show I was right because to be known as a liar on something like that is quite serious. It's not like you put the dog out for 20 minutes instead of 30, the police were dragged into it. Talk about rabid supporters who don't care about facts. That goes for the rspca groupies as well.

He is still claiming he confirmed it, but there is still no evidence he is right. Badly handled on both sides, I agree.

There is enough factual evidence that the rspca has major issues as an organisation and plenty of people know it. I came to my opinion about the rspca through my own negative experiences and then I found I wasn't alone. It's not ridiculous that they don't pass on minor things, the euth rate for the rspca is very high and I was personally told by shelter staff at Fairfield that they don't ever pass Jack Russells due to temperament. They were also prepared to euth some healthy rats rather than give them to a rodent rescue I worked with that they also had worked with. Rats were due the next day but made rescue pay full price. Then there are all the times I tried to get some action on genuine cruelty cases. Maybe you should take the time to ask some questions before you start calling everyone trolls, you might find there are some very disturbing things going on.

So what did you think of the pups head? The changes were listed: I can't really be clearer than that. Well yeah, you could post it in English :rofl:

I read that thread and also saw the irony in the whole thing. There is no way to get cruelty within the rspca in most places, but I think the AWL are getting some powers now and could possibly kick up a stink. But as for investigating matters of conduct we all know there is no process. I am hoping a parliamentary investigation can be eventually conducted, if things get bad enough there would be avenues a minister could use that use common people can't. I just can't believe things can keep going like this, they are getting worse and one day it will all come to a head.

One of the more disturbing things is the number of people who pledge unwavering support for Moorook yet know nothing about the place. The rspca page had a lot more balanced comments and some of the Riverland people who know something about Moorook had posted on there. Like they have said, not everyone in the Riverland support Moorook despite the claims made by Moorook that they have full community back up. One good thing is that the shelter has been upgraded and there are claims that they will cap the number of animals accepted. Ideally we'd also see an investigation into the rspca and have this as part of the evidence that the policing of animal welfare laws needs to go back to the government.

The rspca FB post, I'm reading it now

Yes, but would they. I guess it depends on how loudly Moorook yell. If it is all true they obviously can't. I can't see Mark backing down so the truth will come out one way or another.

They were allegedly up there last night. One thing that struck me what was the police were supposed to have done. I can't see them doing something as unprofessional as informing Moorook about them pulling up a motorist. Moorook claims other people can back them up and had seen the rspca. But I hadn't read anyone else saying they had seen them, only Moorooks posts. I'm not taking sides, just posting what I am reading, I have no idea what the truth is

Too many posts to copy so I'll post a summary post from Moorook. All this is available to the public, no confidences have been breached by me posting this. "Just an update on the happenings of last night for those who have woken up to a mess on our page and are trying to make sense of it. The RSPCA are supposed to come back and do a final inspection to ensure we comply. The things we had to rectify were actually minor and fixed within a few days. The RSPCA is welcome at Moorook but by appointment. They need to remember that Lola lives on the property, has a life when she’s not attending to the animals and does need to leave the shelter for veterinary and personal reasons. Mark Aldridge has been trying to speak to the RSPCA to find out what day they were planning on arriving. They wont speak to him, or Lola – they only want to speak to our lawyer. Well we are not going to engaging a lawyer to make an appointment. Lola would like Mark onsite when the RSPCA next comes. Don’t forget she’s 65, is ill at the moment, has already lost 9 of her babies and is struggling with all that has happened. Last night the Riverland Community banded together in outrage as the RSPCA tried to sneak into the Riverland. Not only did they not bother to tell the shelter when they were coming, they also had their ‘death truck’ with them, with the intention to seize more animals. They were refused accommodation at several places, given a no-stop order by the police and defects were placed on their vehicles. They were last seen returning to Adelaide, at Smithfield at approximately 12.30am. RSPCA all of this unpleasantness could be avoided if you had the courtesy and maturity to advise Lola when you plan to attend to finalise the inspection. She has received your fax but will not be engaging a lawyer to speak on her behalf. Any faith we had in the RSPCA doing the right thing was destroyed last night when they once again brought their ‘death truck’ into the Riverland for what should have been a simple compliance inspection. They were obviously planning on seizing more dogs. I know you’re monitoring this page RSPCA – please contact either Mark or Lola, act professionally and maturely and you’ll be treated with same. As an added note I’d just like to thank the people of the Riverland Community. We had some people and businesses go above and beyond last night to show their compassion and support for the shelter and thank you just doesn’t seem enough. When I told Lola about it this morning she was just about in tears of gratitude. So, thank you xx" AND "Fully expecting some more comments that I'm being childish & unprofessional but am beyond that ... this is what karma is all about The RSPCA has been given a no-stop order by local police in response to the overwhelming support from surrounding towns. They have also been fined for bald tyres and formal warnings (defects) on the larger truck, which incidentally was going to house the animals they planned to seize. Thank you to the local community for all your support xx"

Things are getting uglier. Moorook posted last night that there were rspca inspectors in plain clothes and a big truck (one they use when seizing) were at Blanchetown and there would likely be another inspection/raid in the morning. People apparently were on the lookout and told Moorook what they saw. Moorook posted that two accommodation places in the Riverland refused them a room for the night. This morning I read that the Riverland police has given the rspca inspectors a no stop order and defected their truck. Last thing was rspca truck and inspectors seen heading back to Adelaide via Smithfield. All this is on the Moorook FB page. rspca posted this in response, so someone is telling some big porkies. "Our Facebook community has always been incredibly supportive in helping us achieve positive outcomes for animals. We’d like to thank our supporters for that. However, Facebook can also be used to circulate misleading and inaccurate information. We would like to clarify that at no point yesterday were RSPCA Animal Welfare Inspectors or any other staff in the Riverland area or anywhere near the Moorook Animal Shelter. A number of wildly false claims were made yesterday including that an RSPCA van was stopped by police, all of which are completely untrue. We would also like to give some clarity to the investigation regarding the Moorook Animal Shelter. The inspectorate is entrusted by the SA Parliament to uphold and enforce the Animal Welfare Act. As the community expects, our inspectors have, at all times, acted responsibly, appropriately and within accordance of the Act. While we respect and are very supportive of independent animal welfare shelters we also have a legal as well as a moral obligation to ensure that they are providing a level of care that meets all the needs of the animals. Following several complaints from members of the public, a magistrate considered there was sufficient evidence to grant us a warrant permitting inspectors unrestricted access to the Moorook Animal Shelter. The initial inspection conducted in March by inspectors, a behaviourist, and an independent vet resulted in a number of Animal Welfare Notices being issued to the shelter and 8 dogs and a kitten being surrendered. Sadly, three dogs and the kitten needed to be humanely euthanased due to untreatable, unmanageable, and ongoing medical conditions. The remaining five dogs surrendered to us by the Moorook Animal Shelter are in our care, and are receiving vital treatment & TLC from staff and volunteers, and their conditions are improving. The Moorook investigation is ongoing and it is therefore not legally possible or appropriate to discuss details of the matter publicly. To divulge information could be prejudicial if the matter goes to court, and unfair on the Moorook Animal Shelter if it does not. We work incredibly hard to rehome as many animals as possible, and these figures are improving all the time. Adoptions for the first quarter of 2013 were 10% higher than for the same period last year. There are many examples of us finding forever homes for animals that are elderly or disabled. Some have been in our care for many months before being adopted. Our primary concern is, and always will be, the welfare of animals."

If no other info can be found it looks like it isn't true, surely there'd be some record of it if he was the face of the MPW. I believe they'd do it as they have form but it's important to keep to things that can be verified.

Breeding to a standard is done by artificial selection and it can have very predictable results. We can also move in any direction we like so yes, we can become "Gods in our cosmos" :laugh: Are you saying the dogs will change no matter what we do even when we are selection away from that change? How can that happen when we choose the genetic material used?

Good embassadoring

I hope someone finds a way to show evidence because they have been sending horses to the abattoir in different states for years. They probably do it through a third party though as juice said.

Yep, pc. I started then ran out of wireless credit. So topped up credit and tried again but the net connection dropped so I gave up at that point. It's 800mb so don't want to keep trying unless it will work.

I couldn't get it to DL either.

Nice shots pheebs, love the bokeh in the second shot

I don't think this is the golden ticket either because you have to go to court to make your case and the judge could go either way. Unless there is a legal definition in the act that differentiates between hobby and commercial breeder then nothing has changed.

So we need the court case transcript to show precedent. I don't think I'd consider that to be a foolproof way to fight it and as I said previously, you still need the money to mount a court battle and a lot of hobby breeders just won't have it. But it might be useful to highlight the problems with the current lack of distinction.

From what I can see there hasn't been a division noted between hobby and commercial breeders. From the dictionary. "animal boarding or training establishment means a building or place used for the breeding, boarding, training, keeping or caring of animals for commercial purposes (other than for the agistment of horses), and includes any associated riding school or ancillary veterinary hospital." The above appears to be prohibited in all but rural properties and then only with consent. Is there anything that specifically says hobby breeders are classified as different to commercial breeders?

Ringo said there is so if there is something buried away then we need to have it and a link.

I understand what you are saying, but where is the actual wording from the LEC to differentiate between hobby and commercial breeder? Obviously the local councils define a commercial breeder as anyone who sells a dog, but the issue of definition has always been a problem. Is there a clear description people can access?

I don't get why you don't see a greatly increased risk of melamona in a dog that has to live outside a problem, it directly impacts on working ability. The correlation between sun exposure and melanoma is very well know, don't you believe the research? It's like putting a fair red head out on the beach every day without sunscreen, problems won't show up till a bit later in life but you can bet that poor bugger will be riddled with skin cancer.

One of the issues is having the money to fight the council if they think they are right, they won't just back down because you say another agency has overruled them.