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People eat feral pigs up here, my neighbour was a proffessional pigger and the meat he caught was sent overseas for human consumption, that's how he made his living. My dogs would love to go pig hunting and i'm sure they'd be good at it but i wouldn't want them to get lost or hurt. I'm not that into hunting but don't disagree with it as long as it's done properly.

So amstaff and APBT's are different breeds in your opinion? I know people with amstaffs who'll tell people it's really a pitbull but legal.... The only people who own APBT's who would call them something different is either because they just want to avoid all the hype and questions from council etc, or because they just can't be certain it's a purebred APBT, so why risk your dog being putdown. Typical yobo owners though are only to quick to tell everyone that their dog is a pitbull, and are more likely to have no idea about BSL and all the drama surrounding breed ID and misrepresentation, same with byb amstaff owners. And I've said this few times on this forum that some amstaff breeders selling dogs with "massive heads", "huge muscle mass", etc.. are more of a detriment to the breed, than misrepresentation from pitbull owners. No need to look for other people to blame.

What idiots! people like this should be banned from owning animals forever, and jailed. It would be nice to think that someone could rehabilitate this dog, I live in hope.

Joe, If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive. This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy. I think you misunderstood Joe. If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation. He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him . He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions. Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds. Still making the connection of breed to likelyhood of an attack happening isn't helping anyone. He's saying that it's more likley for a "fighting" dog to have been involved in the attack. Stressful triggers are different for every dog and their environment, some dogs are rock solid and will not waiver under stress, some run, some bite from fear etc.. (Fight drive is usually linked to dog fighting breeds) Edit, maybe somethings are getting lost in translation!! mayeb he's talking about other people perceptions? in which case he may be right.

Joe, If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive. This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy.

Too true, all restricted breeds are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off! given the right ingredients any dog can be aggressive. IMO, this GR has reacted under the stressful situation, ok it didn't react in a way that society demands, but given that most people don't train their dog under intense situations these things do happen. Dog owners should know how their dog reacts when they cuddle their partner, or the kids are play fighting or voices are raised.. similar to teaching kids not to run or scream around dogs as this can get them chasing, nipping etc.. times that by 10 and this is probably what the GR was dealing with.

English is obviously not his first language, so you may need to cut him some slack. Joek, I think I understand what you mean, but people have been breeding certain traits into & out of dogs for a long time. And my friends Labrador certainly defends his property.

I agree RB, why should it be upto people who don't even believe there is such a breed? why the need to label just so they can find a reason to PTS someones family pet.

I have heard of the studies and they seem quite reasonable, and i agree, but having a piece of paper means nothing when the dog is out of the breeders hands. The UQ study though mentions dogs during the critical period, this could be after they have left the breeder so did they follow up buyers? (sure rego'd breeders may attract better owners to start with) but it is open to criticism as they could surely not get a good cross section of breeders or owners that breed pure breds that are un registered.

Typical response from people who think that they're dogs are infallible. Next the breed clubs will say the dogs involved in these attacks aren't pure breds. They're beautiful animals, but are not for inexperienced owners at all.

There is a huge difference between a snap and a bite that rips open flesh. There was no threat to this dog, except that a stranger was restraining it. Its reaction was a very aggressive and violent reaction. That is a world away from a dog that nips or snaps to communicate its needs. It doesn't matter what the indication of aggression is. One bite or a thousand snaps. What matters is that this dog has inflicted horrific injuries, and this dog is clearly aggressive and not a safe dog to have in public. Aggressive possibly, Violent not so sure that fits as dogs aren't usually Violent per se.. not that it matters, it's just that so many posts have all these human adjectives for a dogs behavior. (ie rips open, my dog would only have to have his mouth open to 'rip' flesh if his head was moving fast enough) It bit the fella under some duress, yes it probably bit too hard, acceptable for society, probably not, would the dog do it again, if in the same situation probably.. risk vs probability will determine the outcome. Not suitable for suburban life but out in the middle of the bush somewhere i'm sure he wouldn't get into trouble. Lots of owners on forums here have admitted should their dog get out (or someone break in) and be put in a stressful situation they could bite, especially if they couldn't escape from someone holding their collar. I'm not excusing the dogs behavior and more could've been done to prevent him turning out like that. I do know that i wouldn't be approaching a large strange dog though unless it's body language was comfortable with me being there. It's always hard when a dogs life is on the line, and if's n buts always slew arguments, sadly there is no winners. It's hard to disagree with either outcomes in these instances. I hope the owner has learned a hard lesson as it's the dog that is going to suffer, and of course the bloke missing a digit.

Totally agree with you Steve and RnB! I think they're doing this is to further distance themselves form the APBT, oh sure they'll use them to make money and protect the papered dogs, but they fail to recognise them as a pure bred, then they're saying that they are the experts on a dog they don't even register! This would have been driven by SBT and AST breeders within the ANKC. Without a doubt. They're effectively denying the dog that gave the AST existence (read there is no history for the AST on it's website?) and trying to kill it off. Will they only be happy when there are no APBT''s? or unpapered dogs anywhere? Thinking in the long term they could stand to make a lot of money by pushing for tighter regulations on a national level, that just so happens to fall in line with a service that they can provide like paperwork and parentage of an animal. They're trying to corner a market whilst they teach people to ID a breed that they cannot ID themselves! Dishonest and deceitful.

I don't know what the AKNC can provide to people without any interest in showing, breeding etc.. so that is why many people wouldn't join in the first instance. But I understand your point and perhaps a thousand people should join to oppose what they're doing, I'll certainly look into it. I'm also dubious how much power the members hold when it comes to vito decisions made by the people at the top of the chain in the AKNC, would it be a case of we know best? and how many other AKNC members are going to stick their neck on the line and speak up? I dare say there may be some happy AST/SBT breeders if this goes ahead.

I am. I don't believe Diana Fenton (ANKC judge and creator of the 'Course in Breed Identification') can reliably identify whether a dog has APBT in it from visual identification. Further to that, I think Dogs NSW claiming their course enables people to make anything other than a guess at a dogs breed would be dishonest. Let's wait to hear what Dogs NSW come back with. The questions I posed to them (tol be discussed at Committee tomorrow night) are: 1. What is Dogs NSW position on BSL? 2. Is your "Course In Breed Identification" scientifically validated? The Australian Veterinary Association points out that "The biggest problem is determining whether an animal is actually a Pit Bull or Pit Bull cross, or whether it is a cross involving other breeds" - Bill Harkin, Victorian Division President Dogs NSW has sought national accreditation for it's "Course in Canine Breed Identification" which it actively promotes as assisting with identification of Restricted Breed Dogs such as the American Pit Bull Terrier. Do you dispute the assertion that there is no scientifically validated methodology or process for determining the genetic history of a dog from its physical characteristics or that the observation of the physical features of a dog of unknown breeding cannot provide reliable or certain evidence of its actual breed or breed components? Can you provide any evidence that your "Course in Canine Breed Identification" enables students to identify breed with any reliability or certainty? What is the probability of a false negative? What is the probability of a false positive? 3. How are course attendees assessed? Given that a false positive may result in an owners dog being destroyed, how does your "Course in Canine Breed Identification" assess students ability to perform accurate breed identification? 4. NSW Approved Breed Assessors Dog owners who receive a "Notice of Intention to declare dog to be a restricted dog" are also provided with a secret list of "NSW Approved Breed Assessors" who offer a "statement of breed assessment" under section 58C of the Act. Under the Act, dogs they assess as being American Pit Bull Terriers are then removed from their owners and kill. Why do Dogs NSW judges choose provide this paid service? Is there any evidence that their assessments are anything more than "educated guesses"? Sorry Mike, I didn't realise that an AKNC person had created it, what a coincidence that it would serve their own purpose! I guess this follows on from the Chivers case where the judge deemed no-one is an expert. So basically they say they're expert enough to ID pitbulls, then say the only security is AKNC registration and further protects their own. They tied up QLD by getting the legislation changed to save their own amstaffs, now they're after NSW and want to put another nail in the coffin of any dog that looks like a restricted breed! They are no better than Deborah Pomeroy (i think that was her name), perhaps they have her 22 point checlklist! Thank you for putting these people under the spotlight instead of them conducting their back room negotiations.

So the AKNC are supporting this by having one of their own judges there? It's no surprise though, and I bet they will certainly be mentioning the difference between a papered AST and the illegal unpapered AST or pitbull as it is now commonly known. This is playing into the AKNC's hands that the only safe dog will be one registered with them, and the fact that some of their memebers believe that a an AKNC dog will not attack anyone.. I'm not disputing the ladies ability, but more the politics surrounding this sort of training. This makes me sick, 2 dog groups giving their backing to BSL.

OMG, thanks for posting, let us know how they answer.

Yes for 2 years then its adios if your dog fit the "standard" whatever that is. But at least it's something for already existing lookalike dogs. Edit, just read your other post about there not being a standard yet..! crikey. Thanks for posting, I am a follower on facebook. It's good to se someone taking steps forward to improve dog ownership, laws etc..!

Yes well she did say she pulled off the SBT that had ripped another dogs throat apart, she done a great job. Now I'm guessing she owns dobermans by her name, 2 at least and can handle them herself so she is no stranger to a strong breed of dog. Second of all she is from the NT, a tough kind of girl (but still feminine) and no doubt rides horses and is a strong woman. So I'm not surprised at all she managed to do it. If I'm wrong i'll stand corrected. You're happy with dobesrocks ID of an SBT (so am I) but not anyone at the scene of the recent attack. Hmmmm could that be because it involved a person or because believing dobesrock suits your argument... Oh wait a minute.. It's both! On the other hand, a big drama at a school, wild accusations and high stress everywhere, the media portraying another brutal dog attack.. Sure the dog was the devil and the hero could barely manage it and that is what makes a good story. I'm guessing the hero involved may not have been as dog savy as Dobesrock and the sheer vision of a dog attack scared him into action and he came through, luckily for the little boy. And here you are hanging onto every word that the paper prints only when it suits your argument. One minute he's mr punyverse, the next minute the dog must be too big, the next you're using other peoples experience to justify your own opinion. My Staffy was bloody hard to get of another dog that attacked him on lead, and trust me i am not a whimp. Show me the money pleeeeeeeeaaaase. :thumbsup:

Are you sure it was a SBT as you may upset Wiseguy. I've seen a few over the years so yeah, sure it was a SBT. The other dog looked SBT x but didn't want to say that as I couldn't be positive about which breeds were in the mix Good on you for stopping the attack!

Are you sure it was a SBT as you may upset Wiseguy.

The owner was present Dougie. Your constant assertion that such a dog could NOT be an SBT is the kind of head in the sand ignorance that has seen some pretty unlikely breeds climb into the bite statistics AND that plays right into the hands of the BSL proponents. ANY dog, given the right genetics, envrionment and trigger can represent a threat to people. Acknowledge that and we'll all be a lot safer. Amen

And the above post is being constructive? All i ever wrote is that you're unable to prove your misrepresentation. This is now 2 threads that you've been unable to bring any sought of proof of your claims, or positive solutions to help the SBT. It seems that you either have no proof, which just makes this a bad case of slinging mud. Or you don't know how to help the SBT without blaming other breeds for their actions. I have never once claimed any attack perpetrated by an APBT was in fact the work of a SBT. NEVER! However I did give you proof that it was happening the other way around which you chose to ignore because it doesn't fit with your ideals.

Wiseguy: Yes this could've been a lot worse had a brave parent not rescued the poor boy. This incident has left a poor boy in hospital and all you care about is trying to divert the attention onto the pitbull. Not one person on this thread as diverted the blame onto the breed (which is a step forward), everyone has posted rational comments and if new dog owners happen to read it they may learn something.

Still not replying to my post? wiseguy.

Poor little boy. With Scotland just changing it's dog laws, it may serve as an important reminder about responsible ownership.