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I know you may be trying to let people know about other potentially "aggressive" breeds, but lists of any kind are seldom helpful, and sometimes mislead people. Statistics themselves should come with a warning, "to be taken with a pinch of salt", I mean how on earth do you measure aggression? how quick they turn nasty? do they bite or just snap a little? my dogs could be the most placid dogs you'll ever meet, but i'm sure they could be perceived as aggressive should they "protect" their yard, or if another dog attacked them etc... I get the jist of your post but many anti BSL supporters (as i am) have gotten the blame for trying to drag other breeds down with the pitbull by mentioning other dog attacks... However they must be mentioned to a certain degree because pitbulls as we know aren't the only dogs that bite, and they certainly don't top the list.

I see age hasn't made you a better person. Maybe you should try reading peoples posts before you comment, not just throwing assumptions about the place. Your agenda may well be to stir people up, who knows but when you start being constructive with your argument maybe someone will take you serious.

Just because you assumed my comment on animal rights was about desexing not BSL as it clearly states, you accuse me of "Tap Dancing". How is that That is entirely to do with your ability to not "comprehend" peoples statements, not just in this thread, but all since you've started posting. One liners aren't your forte.

Yes rights as far as not being judged on appearence but on behavior. Nothing to do with my comments on desexing or not, hope that clears up that one. Prior to the last 3, they were home bred, registered and shown.

Do you just read the part of my posts you want to disagree with? Nothing to do with animal rights, that is not my rationale and I didn't say so, not sure how you got that from reading my post? My last 3 dogs have all been rescues. How about yours? "If" I Chose or a breeder I chose to buy from wanted to keep a dog entire, then that would be entirely my perogative, and absolutely nothing to do with anybody else. :D

Ok I think we're on 2 different paths here of course entire dogs are responsible for all litters but i was getting at the fact that "accidental' litter aren't the norm. Your second paragraph is what i agree with you on and have said lots of times on this forum.. ANKC breeders pumping out litters and not always of the best quality or in the best interest of the breed, and it gives decent breeders a bad name. I still would like the choice and would happily comply with any rules to keep a dog entire if i choose to do so.

Never been part of eh...? how do you know? please tell me. I wouldn't be where I am today professionally if I didn't "comprehend" honesty, integrity and conduct myself ethically within my group of peers. What i do "comprehend", is arguments based on point and looking at the whole picture not just an ideal blinded by ignorance. You taking a swipe at me just because i called you "newbie" certainly shows a character flawed with an inflated opinion of ones self. You may well be an ethical breeder and i congratulate you for that, but this doesn't confirm that everyone aspires to do things the way you do.

WHere have i said i'm an advocate for cross breeds? I'm just saying that pure bred breeders aren't all you're making them out to be. That is a fact. The same goes for BYBers, majority have no idea of all the things you mention, and cause many issues for dogs the world over. As i said though a piece of paper is sometimes all you have to put all those ideals and trust in. Unless you've known every dog in the pedigree (which some good breeders do) how do you know what you're getting? even dogs out of the same litter will display different traits. So newbie crawl back in your hole and take your pistol with you.

Sometimes all that sets the 2 apart is a piece of paper, whether you agree or not. Sandgrubber is right.

The key word in the statement is ACCIDENTAL. I think most BYB dogs are bred on purpose.

Register with who? If you do not agree with the ANKC who do you register with? What if you're breeders of working dogs, keep your own records etc.. I certainly do not think that just because someone isn't registered withe ANKC makes them idiots, though as a blanket statement it probably isn't too far off.

I agree in some ways but many working dog breeders keep a detailed record of their lines, dogs only go to friends, proven wokrability, health etc.. just because they do not belong to the AKNC doesn't mean they're no good at breeding, same as belonging to the AKNC doesn't guarantee that someone is good. Most BYBers though don't have a clue and you' re correct you just don't know what you're going to get.

Not as much as most would like to think. But it's better than nothing.

I don't see why responsible owners should need to desex their dogs. AKNC aren't law makers or the standard and many people will disagree with that idea. People who wish to breed should require licensing, education, a clear breeding path, code of ethics and the list goes on. This needs to start with the banning of pet sales at pet stores, ridding australia of puppy mills, including registered ones.

We agree on something. :D

No Coat, I am saying that people like you will say any dog that looks like a pitbull could not be an amstaff or staffy unless it's ANKC rego'd. A bit hard to mistake a rotti as a pitbull regardless whether is rego'd or not. The fact is that there are many unregistered amstaffs, all of which you will happily see killed under legislation because they had the misfortune to be born without papers. My point is, dogs that look like restricted breeds need to be met with caution in terms of aquiring them and people need to be more responsible in their choices which to me is a simple exercise, don't buy unregistered Bull breeds and crossbreeds of Bull appearance then your dog won't be seized which is common sense. There is no way I would raise a dog and love it knowing the breed is skating on thin ice to be in a position where it could be taken from me and the way to avoid that as I said, don't buy them in the first place, don't support BYB's, buy from registered breeders. A friend a couple of months ago found some supposed Staffy pups in a pet shop and asked my opinion, what I advised her was if she wanted a Staffy I would help her get a papered one from a registered breeder, that she did and all is good, she doesn't have to worry about rangers knocking suspecting her dog is a Pitbull and loose her dog to BSL, make sense???. People breed mongrels in the back yard and play on the compassion of dog lovers to provide a home for their products, sad as it is that lives are wasted in these type of breeding programs, this is not in my opinion as the right way to get a dog, I don't support BYB's and the sooner they make the random breeding of unregistered dogs illegal, the better, dog breeding is a technical process that should be left to people with the passion and expertise to do so who are the people I support when it comes down to adding a dog to the family. It's about the rights of an animal not just about what we think we should do because of BSL. Yes caution should be sort from people who just want a dog, buy something else unless you really want a bull breed and are prepared to put in the work. However this leaves thousands of dogs without a voice, anti BSL people are not only the voice for apbt but for any dog that looks like one. On another matter, as i said before many rego'd breeders aren't in it for the long haul, proven track records, many many many litters, breeding for function not just looks or colour is what it takes.. many breeders fall short. Bull breeds suffer from people who want to make a difference but invariably suffer from over breeding, over representation in pounds and now being PTS like never before. Remember it is society that is at fault. not dogs.

Come on Coat, how many "breeders" stay in the game long enough to say they make an actual difference to the disposition of a breed as a whole? many just do what it takes to get their championship points, get a website, breed a few litters then it all gets too hard. Dogs bite for a lot of different reasons, ridding dogs of fear aggression or their pre disposition to DA, isn't as simple as you make it sound. People forget the same breeders that breed for temprement also provide loving homes, training and socialising. Unless your dog has escaped, you can only guess how it would behave without you. I'm sure the owners of this dog didn't think this would happen either.

No Coat, I am saying that people like you will say any dog that looks like a pitbull could not be an amstaff or staffy unless it's ANKC rego'd. A bit hard to mistake a rotti as a pitbull regardless whether is rego'd or not. The fact is that there are many unregistered amstaffs, all of which you will happily see killed under legislation because they had the misfortune to be born without papers.

Yet another dumb comment. If you think pure breed = safety then you're sadly mistaken!! Show us the attack stats for pure breed ANKC papered dogs supplied by registered breeders then compare that with BYB crossbreed involvement, that I think would be an interesting viewing? If you think stats care about ANKC rego (along with the general public or journo's who report on attacks) then you're again sadly mistaken. I am sure it would be less as you imply, however it doesn't make a dog safe.

Yet another dumb comment. If you think pure breed = safety then you're sadly mistaken!!

So your breed has no connection withe the APBT? nothing? is that what you're saying?...... To the general public they think they're the same. Same "type" many say...weekly reports were always unsubstantiated.. America was different they were having attacks but the demographic there is completely different, but no weekly attacks here, not the UK either as I grew up there.. Unless you count the numerous claims made by the media that any attack must've been by a pitbull. Yes they were represented in dog attacks but not highly. it was purely the fact the once fighting breed was now a family pet and the unscroupulous people were again using them for their own sick games.. They mistreated these dogs then didn't contain them. Your paper clip, only mentions registered staffs, You think that the type of people owning and mistreating dogs were likely to belong to a breed club.. hmmmmm let me think. You think all of the recorded staffy attacks are being perpetrated by pitbulls? you must be kidding, we all know the SBT's are one of the most BYB dogs in the country. You should be joining against BSL, not bagging genuine dog lovers who dedicate their time to educate people about responsible ownership, which applies to all dog breeds.

That post is all Piss and Wind, if you read theCoats posts you'd decipher that he/she is saying to be quote "smart" let it blow over.. with a wink symbol, implying you register your dog as a cross breed, and carry on. As for pure breed.. lets not go there as you know they are. They are older than many of the breeds in the AKNC. I fail to see how anyone on this forum has dragged any other breeds into the frey? That just suits your argument, it doesn't take a friggin Genius to connect amstaffs and pitbulls, they were always going to come under scrutiny at some point and will continue to do so with it becoming more and more popular. Then who will you blame!!!

I'd rather say,"here is my APBT, trained, sociable and I'm responsible" look at how great he is...

I think that time has long passed and all anyone Pro APBT people are trying to do now is campaign about responsible ownership and how BSL doesn't work. I wouldn't take this thread as the whole argument, it's just a thread on what has happened.. Whenever i have spoke to anyone pro pitbull, they never start to sslate other breeds.. I'm not sure how old the AKNC is, and i don't know why they didn't ever recognise it, but they recognise the Amstaff..?