geo

nancy Spencer and Magdi Elhag were the two names i was given as Logan Timms is apparently on secondmant elsewhere. geo

He is on secondment apparently until August 8th according to the email reply i recieved. He left these two names to be contacted; Nancy Spencer on 300 30588 or Magdi Elhag 322 58649 Their emails will probably be [email protected] and so on.

yeah whatever. Misplace blame on "people like me". I don't care. I wasn't the one that provided evidence that put Amstaffs in the same basket as APBT's. That curtesy goes to Ms Chivers. Totally agree with you chrisjc, and as for the above comment, puhleeeeeeeeeeeeease start helping not whinging. I know all amstaff owners must be slightly upset but now is the time to help out all dogs.

I certainly hope that other ANKC breeders are NOT of the same opinion as you SBT123 . So if you had your way all dogs that are not ANKC registered would be thrown to the wolves so to speak. I think this is a very selfish attitude, shame on you. I hope you don't classify yourself as a dog lover All dogs bred without ANKC papers have been under the gun for years. Why should the ANKC put the dogs of its own members in jeopardy to save dogs illegally bred by others? We've just seen what attempting to lump all bull breeds in together can produce - disaster for EVERYONE. Illegally bred.. how about ignorantly bred, breeding unpapered dogs is not illegal (though if it was we prob wouldn't be having this convo.).. I understand that the ANKC should put the dogs of its members first but BSL covers all of society, and not everyone is in a breed club and this needs their support too. I hope that people with papered dogs will help people with so called 'mutts' as it is not their fault they have no papers. I have regularly got the impression on this site that all some people care about is the peice of paper that sets them apart fom the rest (or should i say above the rest) i understand where you're coming poodlefan, it's because of BYB and the idiot owners that BSL is here in the first place, and all the papered owners have done the right thing, i just couldn't take the stance of 'who gives a crap about the mutts'.

What's done is done, maybe they were looking for a win for all unpapered amstaffs or pitbulls, i don't think calling them stupid is going to change anything. What if the thought, hey he's an amstaff and he's 'got off' what about all the other dogs (pits), they're all the same so why not let us own them aswell.Personally i don't think the council would ever have lost, they wouldn't go back on what they thought was right, and would spend whatever it took to get their way. They're the real reason all amstaff owners now find themselves in. not Ms Chivers. All she has done is care about her dog and fought tooth and nail for him, sure i don't know why this evidence was produced, but it's done, and all papered amstaff owners may look at the back yard pitbull owner in a different light, for now they will be classed as the same. That's not uncommon with the anti-BSLer's putting the spotlight on other breeds to try and get their's off the hook It's a wonder the bite stats didn't come out to put some heat on GSD's, Rotties, Dobes etc as they usually do. Not that I support BSL in any way...........but if the anti-BSL crowd don't be careful what they are doing like in this case, they can be a dangerous lot. It is Ms Chivers fault totally from the beginning buying an unpapered dog. Dedicated dog people have been campaigning for years for people to buy pedigree papered dogs from registered breeders, personally, like thousands of others, I haven't had an unpapered dog for 30 years and have no interest in ever owning one again, but everyone knows better and the one needing a papered dog more than anyone in the circumstances was Ms Chivers You have to admire the dedication for someone to fight and protect their dog which is commendable, but a silly slip up to save "ONE" dog has the potential to have "HOW MANY" Amstaffs possibly facing the needle route to Rainbow Bridge There are some good lessons to be learned from this case and hopefully some people have learned to re-access their approach with anti BSL campaigns as to how the best intentions can backfire for the worse. I was not putting the spot light on other dogs.. not sure if you intended that statement for me?

The Amstaffs with papers ( the breed clubs and the state controlling bodies ) need to go it on their own, not fight the battle for the unpapered mongrel. They need to do what was done in NSW and make sure the future of the papered dogs is protected. I think that this needs support from all quarters of society and that means the unpapered mongrel owner as well, what do you think they deserve to be left out? I hear what you're saying but a papered dog has no more right to life than a mutt.

What's done is done, maybe they were looking for a win for all unpapered amstaffs or pitbulls, i don't think calling them stupid is going to change anything. What if the thought, hey he's an amstaff and he's 'got off' what about all the other dogs (pits), they're all the same so why not let us own them aswell. Personally i don't think the council would ever have lost, they wouldn't go back on what they thought was right, and would spend whatever it took to get their way. They're the real reason all amstaff owners now find themselves in. not Ms Chivers. All she has done is care about her dog and fought tooth and nail for him, sure i don't know why this evidence was produced, but it's done, and all papered amstaff owners may look at the back yard pitbull owner in a different light, for now they will be classed as the same.

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Having read all of the thread (thanks tybrax & everyone for the info) I feel that all of the AST clubs should approach other breed clubs for their support and everyone should essentially stop slinging mud, whether a dog is papered or not, pure bred or mongrel, i don't care, all dogs have a right to life and as our beloved pets deserve the very best that we can give them, just like John was fighting for tango, all dog owners have a right to own whatever breed they want and should fight for that freedom of choice but be responsible enough to do the dog and it's breed justice. People arguing on an internet thread, is just that, an internet thread...(don't get me wrong i enjoy it) the big picture is that potentially tens of thousands of dogs could fall foul to a pathetic law that possibly in a few years they could say, "hey we got it wrong, lets change it but put more emphasis on responsible owners." Or even worse, all big dogs will be a thing of the past and we'll have no choice. Everyone in court today was fighting for us and any dog that resembles a pitbull, hell both my dogs do, and i'll happily donate to them to keep going. There's plenty of people on this thread with big opinions and good reasoning, maybe collectively we could start a public rally, for all dogs big and small. This really is crunch time, and if we as owners let this pass without making a lot of noise, (contructively of course) we'll be stuck with whatever some politician thinks he'll win votes with. Papered dog owners should be even more concerned as their is proof of where you live and the dogs you own, is everyone going to wait and put their heads in the sand until the council comes knockin for your dog. For all the people involved in the case, thank you for your hard work, i as a dog owner appreciate it.

I wish them all the best, maybe all anti BSL campaigners should use the media coverage to put some pressure on the government to get rid of BSL. First and foremost though Tango's hearing is the most pressing thing, got all my fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for the letter (maybe on other thread) i re-worded and passed it on. To add to all the others i've sent.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and i kind of agree, but i guess many people believed that being a registered breed with breed clubs and active members in the CCCQ was their pass to owning the dog that they wanted, they obided by the law and proabably saw no real reason to fight a fight that didn't yet exist. We all know alcohol is a legal drug so we relax and indulge feeling guilt free because it's legal, (and seemingly ignore all the associated health problems, and say to ourselves well at least i'm not taking drugs..) but they're not going to start fighting agaisnt prohibition that doesn't exist yet..if you catch my drift. Many amstaff breeders have been supporting the anti BSL campaign from the beginning (and many owned pitbulls before hand) so i don't think we can say, "hey, amstaff breeders, you should've been prepared." they've done the right thing all along now they're going to have to fight for their dogs, all large breed owners should start banding together on this. It's going to be interesting to see what happens, i can see plenty of unpapered amstaff owners trying to prove that their dogs are lab/mastiff/staffy/boxer or whatever crosses.

So what were the findings? Is tango back home?

Any news yet? i hope it went well!

Thanks, you get my point. If the CEO of the RSPCA has spoken out about it, he's in a position to change and help dogs and their owners for the better in years to come.. I doubt it will happen and the government will do whatever they wont to win elections as that is all they really care about.

In your experience, 'not the rotti community'. Good for you and those rotti owners, it's slightly different everywhere, in the UK rottis have the bad rep. I hope all puppy placements are with respect to all dog issues. I think bull breed people just get fed up with all the sensationalism, Most staffy, pity, pigdog owners i know are well aware of their shortcomings. Lets see how the stats look when all bites get reported, a playful nip from a lab is just that, but god forbid a playful nip from a staffy and that's it the whole world knows about the killer down the street. I agree bull breed owners need to take a different approach, more awareness is needed when it comes to owning all large breeds, infact all dogs. Stats don't really do it for me, everyone has an opinion (even statisticians), anything that could be a lab cross generally becomes a pity cross when it comes to reports, thats why i take all info with a degree of scepticism, but i'm not denying any possible flaws in bull breeds.

What do dingos have to do with BSL and how is it the fault of the RSPCA? It may not be the RSPCA' fault but they support and enact BSL, and with massive government contributions is it any wonder.

Thanks, a lot of helpful info their. I'll let you know how he goes.

I've just been to the vets as our 8month old has some hairless patches on him, I was told it in all likelihood it is Demodex and that a skin scrapping will confirm it. He has been started on these injections for it (he has several patches and they have got worse). We live in a remote and very hot area and i was wondering if anyone has any advice on helping him along...? He has grown a lot and is a big pup, and the vet said his immune system may be low, which doesn't help as he'll be in the the kennels for a few days next week..

i sort of agree but our older bitch is scared of a lot of things, ie sudden noises, plastc bags etc.. thunder and lightning doesn't scare her though. but she has 2 personalities, when out bush she becomes so driven it's rediculous, not scared of anything, always on the hunt. She is dominant around other dogs and has no fear of them, she leaves them alone, she has had another dog have a go at her where i pulled her of it before any serious harm was done. I'm not calling her game, but i think the correlation between her being scared of one thing then showing complete confidence and strength in another situation bares no resemblance on her gameness. Then again i think she may leg it if a bigger dog decided it was boss.

Too true, poor old fellas, will it now be the case of the RSPCA doing whatever the government wants seen as they are giving them $1 million over the next couple of years alone in WA. Absolutely disgusting. The way it's going all dogs will soon be culled to one type of breed that must be no more than 15" tall, no more than 15kgs, Toothless, barkless etc.. shit they may aswell become stuffed toys if they keep going down this road, and we'll all own a Japanese built electronic dog!!!!!!!

Good post, and a good topic...... i only want my dogs to learn acceptable behavior around other dogs. "play dates", are soley arranged for traning behavior and on lead until they' are used to each other, and then it's off the lead for a run around. Our older bitch couldn't care less about other dogs, that is after she has met them and let them know she is boss, even when other dogs then try to be dominant she just walks off, if there was a dog and a person in a big field she would run past the dog briefly on her way wagging her tail to the person for pats. The puppy at 9 months is loving other dogs but we have to stop hom being overbearing as he is quite big. He is a little scared of bigger dogs, ideally we'd like him to not chase little dogs (because they're interesting) and not attack big dogs because he is scared of them. We try not to put human emotions on our dogs, sometimes it's hard not too. Some breeds of dogs just love to play with others, and with some breeds it's constant power struggle to see who is on top, it may look like they're playing but generally they're figuring out who is top dog. So it really depends on each individual dog.

I wonder how many attacks there have been in the last 6 months and how many of them were apbt, most dog attacks go unreported or deemed insignificant, not newsworthy unless it was a pitbull. 2 in 1 week, bad news for apbt owners, yes, but not even close to attacks by other breeds. The pitbull in the states is a slightly different issue than what we have here because they're one of the most popular dogs and secondly the undesirable owners we have mentioned are more prevelant over there... maybe We can't really use the USA as any sort of measure for our population. I don't think many good stories about pitties make the news, it just doesn't sell.

At what age would they enforce desexing? I'm not planning on breeding, but i'm also not planning on desexing either, and not because of cost or laziness, but because i've read many varying opinions on desexing and i'm choosing not to. simple as that. maybe i'll change my mind when my male is fully grown. How about they ban pet shops from selling pets, because the number in the pound would certainly drop then. IMO anyone buying a dog from a petshop hasn't researched enough about dogs before making a life changing decision, and these are the people that place their dogs in the pound without a second though.

Mum to Emma, all i can add to the responses that your post has conjured up is that i hope you can take some of the comments on board in your judgement of all dogs (big or small). Sad the foxy died and that someone was injured, it seems everyday now that accidents are happening.

I agree with your post, but all breeds have been known to attack people, and pitbulls are very low on the bite statistics (not that i think stats are worth anything) morons should not be allowed to breed any dogs, and trust me there's plenty out there not breeding pitbulls. BYB pitbull breeders aren't even a spec on the radar when it comes down to amount of dogs bred compared to 'hobby' breeders. (again i condone niether) Many people that have apbt's i think would love to show off the breed, but for the owners where they're banned they're not likely to take them out in public. I think the apbt club tried but could no longer get insurance. It would also help to have a Priminister who was a fancier of apbts like the GSD's had.