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It doesn't matter whether it is the majority or just a handful. If any registered Amstaff breeders are perceived to be breeding for anything other than the 'cuddly pet market' the breed is in danger of being legislated against. You're right Greytmate I've also no problem with breeders, breeding working lines etc.., but to breed on looks/colour just annoys the crap outta me, all they're after is a heavy big headed dog, if thats what you want at least get a dog that is originally that size and don't ruin a great breed, buy a bull arab/mastiff/american bulldog, a dog that can at least handle it's size and weight without losing working ability or speed.

It's not as if i don't like his dogs, they look fine, but really do amstaffs need this sort of breeder... and my opinion is not. I'm a big fan of APBT's but i don't breed them because invariably i'd only attract certain buyers, even if i sold all the pups to vetted homes there's always a risk that one would end up in the wrong hands. There are some great breeders around breeding for type and staying with the breed for a lifetime, but some people should really consider why they breed, as my gut instincts tells me breeders like this only breed for looks without substance.

Okay, so being a big fan of Amstaffs i quite often look at breeders websites and have a look at the dogs their producing. The thing is, BSL is now threatening amstaffs and there has been many a thread arguing the difference between them and APBT and that the APBT owners did nothing to help the image of their dogs... Lately there was a thread on Andonas and what he's doing to the breed, but he's not the only one out there pushing massive, tough looking amstaffs. One breeder, AKNC registered not only advertises his dogs for colour, available in any colour if you want, but stating that bigger is best and that they're leading the way in amstaff breedings in this country, they breifly mention how they genetically test in a one line throw away and I doubt they do any, The website is full of nice comments about his dogs and how lovely they are but to read the speil they put on the website about amstaffs and where they come from was garbage, apparently they've been about since 1835 and the pitbull came from amstaffs.. They go on to mention how great guard dogs and family protectors the amstaff is and how it will protect you at all costs. But my main problem is they are exactly what amstaff breeders shouldn't be, they're promoting big tough dogs, oversized American wanna be "blue whales" with more leather studded collars than mardi gras, and they're selling them by the bucket load and they're AKNC registered. They're damaging the breed through thoughtless breedings and hyping up the look of them to sell a tough dog. If the AKNC is doing anything to stop BSL surely they should be stopping breeders like this from having their so called stamp of approval, so what if the amstaff has papers, if i wanted a mean looking street dog, i'd go straight to him and buy one, then when it gets in trouble which one of them invariably will the amstaff is going to be in the BSL firing line again. And why should these dogs be gievn any creedence in the show ring when they're so far from the standard..? Though in all aspects these 45kg amstaffs are probably useless as any sort of working dog, intimidating yes, athlethic and trim with lots of stamina certainly not. Does anyone else feel the same way? i feel the same when i see pitbulls for sale in the papers here, bred by people who realy don't have the best interest of the breed at heart.

That is funny!! some poeple just don't listen! And you're quite right, some dogs can hide their aggression so well, my staffy would wag his tail and look all friendly to the unsuspecting dog he was just about to lunge at. And in the other post Erny mentions confidence, which my current dogs have in spades, which again can be a handful. I think you just have to know your dog and limit the things that could possibly make him aggro.

So does bathing! the hospital where we just had our baby girl doesn't even practise circumcision, we were told incase we had a boy. Mmm, a hospital that does not offer free choice! They pretty much decide what has to go. I don't think it was about free choice but rather on the medical grounds that unless there is something wrong with the foreskin there is no reason to perform a circumcision.

So does bathing! the hospital where we just had our baby girl doesn't even practise circumcision, we were told incase we had a boy.

Great pics! love whippets and their big bros the greyhound, so athletic.

More and more I'm seeing amstaff kennels that are breeding massive dogs, nothing against them if thats what you're looking for, these are AKNC registered kennels yet i don't see how they're all gaining show points when they're going away from the standard.... I mean they talk about size, bone structure, but don't mention gait or agility, and looking at some, athleticism isn't something that comes to mind. We're talking 40kg+ dogs with big jowly heads, where in the standard is that? Would the AKNC remove registration if breeders are moving away from the standard?

Too true, i didn't mean to slate his dogs ( i like the look of some of them, but i guess they're not my idea of amstaffs, maybe he's after the american bully look..?) i've heard of a few people loving the dogs they've had off him, and they all seem family friendly etc..

SBT123 post was spot on, find yourself a reputeable breeder, and wait if you have to, to find the right one. Andonas kennels aren't really breeding to type and they're doing an injustice to the breed. It's people like him that add fuel to the BSL fire, i mean look at all the dogs names FFS! it may all be for show, but there is no denying he wants dogs that look tough. I remeber seeing his website years ago, sat on a Harley, gym in the back ground etc... his dogs may be fantastic natured and great pets etc.. but they're not true to amstaff type.

Poor nerve or weak nerves, which is what I believe was meant, is inherent in the dog, . If I was breeding b oxers with poor or weak nerve, I would desist, or change lines. Weak nerved dogs are often dangeerous, and fear biters. If you want more understanding, check out the BSL forum, there is a thread there on weak nerves Absolutely. Where an SBT or Boxer with a correct temperament would stand it's ground, observe the situation or not see itself as being under any threat, the weak nerved gutless dogs often run and even worse, lash out in fear. They do not display the tolerances, that would be expected from either breed and to be honest they are bloody dangerous. I guess that everyone is entitled to their opinion, provding it's the "right" one according to DOL rescue I understand what you're saying but how do you explain for example one of my dogs (suspect staffy/mastiff type) is scared of loud noises and paper bags, she's finds it hard to even take a bone from your hand if it's just came out of a plastic bag....? but you put her with strange people she is rock solid (submissive but not scared) & she is not fearful at all of other dogs, so knowing full well how daunting a kennel/pound can be how can people accurately assess strays and abondoned dogs in theses situations that will give them a good understanding of how it will react in a "normal" situation?..

Too true, (though the RSPCA have given themselves a bad rep in the past for supporting BSL, and i'm aware that's not the thought of all that work for them and rescue dogs) When i rescued my staffy from the AWL, he loved me so much as he had been in the pound twice, and only lasted 2 weeks at his last home... He was shy, dog aggresssive (fear, as he had suspectedly been used for baiting).. So i trained him and trained him, and got so much back in return that it makes my heart break to think he may not have been given another chance. All dogs should be assessed on an individual basis, not on the ideals that SBT123 mentions about staffies and boxers, which should apply to all dogs.. and saying that they're ticking time bombs is absurd, as they're no more likely to attack as long as they're given a comfortable loving home where they know their place and fit in. I swear it's all too easy for people to say PTS, that sort of thinking is probably why we have so much over population.... ah well if we breed bad dogs they can always be PTS then we'll just get another, dogs are not disposable objects, you make your choice to own one and as far as i'm concerned it's your responsibility for life... if they turn out less than perfect then you have no-one to blame but yourself.

A short whiles ago i found my my dogs snuffling in the bushes, my neighbour had thrown over about 20 cooked rib bones and they were trying to get as many as possible in their mouths as i was thinking what are they doing? This wasn't the only time, once i heard a big thud and found a joint of pork in the middle of the garden and thought who the hell would do that, i even thought someone might want to poison my dogs, paranoia! My neighbour blamed his kids! then when out at the pub he confessed to my girlfriend that it was him feeding them! I was not happy because having a 1 year old male who's getting a little food aggressive (working on it) with our 4 year bitch (the boss) is a recipy for disaster! let alone constipation, split bones etc... He loves my dogs because his wife made him get rid of his, as they never trained or looked after him. Some poeple just don't understand!!

Good idea.. i think some owners of SWF over react when they see a dog herding, not really stalking.. if it was showing aggression then fair enough. Small dogs are a problem harrasing big dogs alot here, and with either of my dogs it's not really a problem but just their size can be an issue, and the dog owners get scared not the actula dog.

thanks for posting, it makes a great read, if only all politicians could read it, and some of the people on here that love to throw stats around as the truth.

Good read, i'll take some things from that. Parts of it relates to my 2, affection being a primary resource to one but not the bitch unless she has nothing better to do. maybe you should start another thread, i'd like to hear what people have experienced, especially multi dog owners.. i.e i found the young pup had the older female cornered and she wasn't game enought to pass, now was it because she was near his sleeping area.? or because the bins haven't been collected (even though they're out of sight) and smell a bit.?

The myth is this is the case for every dog, and it isn't. Be it by virtue of nature or nurture some dogs just don't push the boundaries or have any particular desire to usurp possition. While you'd have hell to pay with your girl over one lessening of a rule(in this case sleeping on the bed), others wouldn't with their dogs. I think the case for most dogs is that they're above their owners so thats why there isn't an issue. But you're right it depends on the individual dog. Do you mean to say that most dogs are "above" their owners in the pack? That they see themselves as the boss? Or am I interpreting that completely wrong Should've been clearer, it was a tongue in cheek comment.. but i've met quite a few dogs that think they rule the roost.

The myth is this is the case for every dog, and it isn't. Be it by virtue of nature or nurture some dogs just don't push the boundaries or have any particular desire to usurp possition. While you'd have hell to pay with your girl over one lessening of a rule(in this case sleeping on the bed), others wouldn't with their dogs. I think the case for most dogs is that they're above their owners so thats why there isn't an issue. But you're right it depends on the individual dog.

and if you allow this your poor dog will be confused and miserable because you have failed to give it any kind of structure simply by letting him/her/them on the bed, therefore you are a bad bad owner - no treat for you! Too true if you give our bitch an inch she'll take a mile, and it all starts with where they perceive they are in the pecking order... now she has even more competition with our young boy hitting 1 year of age (entire.. at the moment ;-)) so it's strict rules at our house for absolutely everything!

When did I say anything about dead ones? I said any one BUYING A NEW puppy or Pit, not people who already own adult ones. If you buy a new puppy from a Backyard Breeder AFTER the bans are put in place then you get no sympathy from me when they take your dog away. Only the DOG will get sympathy for having such an idiotic uncaring owner. This should be all the more reason to fight BSL, not say you are going to ignore it if they put it in place. If that's the case then why bother trying to fight it at all if it doesn't mean anything to you. If Chinese Cresteds were banned (although that seems unlikley) I would have to abide by the law. Yeah sure I would be very p*ssed off about it and kick up a fuss but I would NOT buy another one and put its life at risk. EDIT - Oh, and I know the majority of the people on here are and would always do the right thing... it's just been a general observation over several forums. The same statements keep popping up. Who knows, might even be the same people on each forum. I wasn't having a dig at your reasoning, just imagining why people do things.. BYB pits will be born with or without the buyers as the people that do it don't have anyone elses interests but their own. and the pups suffer with or without BSL, if someone can provide space, love, training and keep their pitbull contained and prevent it from any negative news etc.. i have no problem with it especially if it's been rescued.

I'll add a fresh perspective to this. First let me say although this post may not sound like it, I DO NOT support BSL. But, I have heard so many times from a lot of different people that if their breed was banned (completely banned) they would own one anyway (I'm talking about buying a new dog/puppy, not their current dog), they don't care about the LAW. They disregard muzzling laws, or DD tags, or say they would walk their dog on the street even if it were banned, and who benefits from it? The owner for getting to keep their dog? What if you get CAUGHT???? Only the dog will suffer for it by being PTS. Boo-hoo you don't get to own a particular breed when they are banned. Get over it and actually think about the poor dog that is going to suffer because of YOUR stupidity. I have heard of people deliberately registering their dog as another breed with the council ie: Pitt bull registered as a Lab X Boxer or something unbelievable. Now this business with registering your dog as another breed with the ANKC just takes the cake!!! Seriously, take a step back and look at yourselves. I don't like BSL, but I'm thinking I really don't want to support people who lie, cheat and scam... I don't care if you think you are doing it for the dogs... you AREN'T! FIGHT BSL, try and stop it, or try to get bans and restrictions lifted, but don't go being an idiot and destroying your dog by buying one after a ban has been put in place. And certainly don't advertise the fact... have you ever thought that someone lobbying FOR BSL might read something like this? I'm not targeting anyone in particular, more letting off some frustration from about 3 different forums I have heard this same thing on! (except the ridiculous ANKC scam) From reading this I know there are only a few here who would consider it, so all the sensible people please disregard my post. /end of rant Many of the people on this forum probably aren't doing the wrong thing.... I understand your rant but playing devils advocate, why should people follow draconian rule if they feel it's wrong? why make a dog wear a muzzle if it's not been proved dangerous? by not getting a pitbull would we be condoning their reasons for banning them? will we just be following their reasoning until they say ok BSL was totally wrong we're going to do something about it and you can all once again own pitbulls etc.., oh yeah sorry about all the dead ones..! Sadly the people doing the wrong thing are the people that don't care, and aren't lobbying against BSL, the long term owners of apbt's aren't going to change their chosen breed because of the law, they're not going to give up their pet to be PTS because the council says they're dangerous in this state but they're not in the next..? Do you think that all amstaff (any breed) owners would obide by the law should they be outlawed? i think not, and i personally will not blame them one bit. Getting caught well that's another story, again the people doing the wrong thing like flaunting their dog or letting it escape or get into trouble will get caught, those who're well versed and keep their dogs well contained may get away with having a great dog for a long time.

Politicians ban breeds because they are ignorant to what really causes dog attacks, they want to be seen to be doing something about it to their constituents because they are too lazy to do the hard yards and fix social issues and bring about proper change in animal ownership. If only all websites read these dogs are only suitable for committed, strong dog owners, as all breeds need the same attention, but rarely does it happen. Having gameness isn't a problem, having people with a "don't care attitude" is.

I thought i read that several people on the panel for banning breeds completely disagreed but the government went ahead and done it anyway..?

Up here in The NT there are a lot of dingoes unfortunately the many camp dogs that litter our streets are breeding with the pure dingoes. In kakadu, Arnhem land etc.. there are some pure packs about, but i see them coming closer to easier food all the time, such as the local dump or town camps, which leads them to breeding with feral dogs. There are lots of Sharpei x dingoes all over the place. A few have been known to attack the local domestic dogs that haven't been fenced in at home properly, this time of year they start to move out onto the flood plains so they stop rummaging through bins and stealing our shoes as chew toys. I hope some pure strains manage to survive.

Have you read the other threads on this issue? or are you wanting to cause a big debate..? did 2 dogs really jump that fence..? search the net and make your own mind up, a good place to start is workingpitbull.com, there you'll find examples of working dogs (eg huskies) then pictures of their show dog counterparts and they look entirely different, barely similar infact. Opinions vary greatly, look at several amstaff breeder websites you'll see different styles that they have bred for, some small some very large.. same for pits, some big some small, some where the breeder doesn't care about looks just functionality, in fact any pitbull breeeder breeding for looks may as well breed amstaffs. It's like trying to identify a snake by it's colour alone which will definately get you into trouble.