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Jed, It does make sense and it's good to know that some breed clubs will give bad breeders the arse. You only have to look at how popular the amstaff is coming, and definately becoming popular among the undesirables who wish to pretend they're tough. I met a beautiful male amstaff on the Goldy a while ago who's owner took it away from some idiots who were trying to fight him, hitting him etc.. to make him aggressive. These people are seeing them as legal pitbulls (i know many will say they are) i've heard a guy on the beach with a blue amstaff telling people it's a pitbull. The bad breeders are trying to transpose the pitbulls image onto amstaffs, exactly what the decent people are trying to get away from. The worse thing is, is that image was created by the media, not genuine pitbull breeders. So in reality they're aiming to breed a dog that fits restriction requirements, now i know a couple of pitbull breeders and they're trying to do the complete opposite. It would be ashame for the amstaffs to suffer the same way as the pitbull.

Yep. Two ANKC main register dogs of opposite sexes and a registered prefix do NOT a good breeder make. It takes a whole lot more than that. There are ANKC registered breeders who really need to lift their game because its by the worst the of registered breeders that the rest are judged. Sadly, the CCs seem indifferent to that fact. That's exactly right, and you can see what happens when these sort of breeders get involved with dogs that could look like a restricted breed, ie amstaffs.

Good post Steve.

I agree, but ultimately it's the dogs that really suffer. In my earlier posts (i think) I had inferred that there are breeders that are memebers of all the required clubs, that a re no better than BYBers. re: dogs being advertised as extreme muscle mass, massive heads et al.

My whole point of the thread was that all we ever here about is BYB, and reg'd breeders are only too quick to call them out, however we now know that having papers can mean nothing, and having AKNC registration bares no resemblance on the quality of a dog. Though it should be a decent indicator but it relies heavily upon it's members being honest. Yet the new QLD BSL laws differing amstaffs and pitbulls heavily relied upon the AKNC registration of amstaffs, which i think is flawed as there are bad breeders out there selling papered amstaffs but without absolute proof, Unless every single dog is DNA tested. This gets harder especially when we see 1 bloke breeding hundreds of dogs from maybe 30 bitches, where a well intentioned BYBer may have the quality but without the papers and all of a sudden that makes the dog a pitbull...?

I think BYB's don't see themselves as so which is the main problem and that they're less likely to register as they mainly breed cross breeds or unregisterable (is that a word?) dogs. From a registered breeders perspective what do you think of hunting breeders? do you consider them BYBers?

I was just making the point that having papers isn't all it's cracked up to be but for the sake of BSL it'll save your dog, as it is used to pass judgement on a dogs breed, ie if it has papers it's an amstaff but if it doesn't it's a pitbull, go figure..?!

Oh LOL, I always said I would NEVER EVER own a small dog, and especially NEVER EVER one with a tail that curled up over its back, and really especially NEVER EVER put a jacket on it. Now I have a small wee mutt whit a tail that curls over her back (when she is super happy the tail curls even tighter) and when it is cold I put a jacket on her LMAO Oh, wait a minute, for a small breed i could own a french bulldog, daschund and definately a boston terrier.

Yeah i don't think they'd been feral for all that long, but all pitbulls that i've known would've been weary at first then fine within a few minutes once they've sussed out the person. Which is exactly what chester was like, total love for people.

Exactly Tiggy, having papers isn't a ticket to the moral high ground... just because you can trace the dogs lineage, or belong to the AKNC. Responsible, ethical and people who do it for passion and not for a living are surely the only people who should be breeding dogs. So what i'm getting at is that some people claim the "registered breeder" status and all that comes with it, along with degrading BYB, yet they themselves are nothing better than a BYB themselves.

Thanks for that, but are there any ethical guidlines set out buy the AKNC? bseides not breeding to unregistered dogs. ie could you have the paper work but be for all intense purposes a BYB?

Ok so i know many people on here are rego'd breeders and do all they possibly can for their breed.. However what does it take to become a reg'd breeder? as a friend of ours has gotten a prefix and registration, god knows where from as she has no fricken idea. Basically she has a blue staffy boy, mated with her white staffy who i think looks king charles in the face.. so she mated had 8 puppies 3 died 'cause she didn't know what was going on, then sold them as papered. Oh and is now having more puppies 'cause her bitch was a good mum..!! so annoyed Anyhow, to my point, do you have to go to shows to become a reg'd breeder? or are the shows just that, somewhere to showcase your dogs? Or should people only be buying from AKNC breeders, do breed clubs hand out papers to breeders without AKNC membership? The other point, if someone has many years experience, health tests their dogs but is not AKNC affiliated, does that make them a BYB just as they have no interest in shows? cause i figure there'd be a few breeders with all the papers but are essentially BYB's.

I had a couple ask if my white staffy could provide a service for their bitch because of course they were the same colour, same as all the other posts. They hadn't even noticed he was desexed!

Living in a remote town i can tell you that the indigenous (in my town) don't need to register their dogs, so town camp dogs roam the street, though they're generally harmless. The council charges $15 for rego if your dog is desexed, $65 if not. They occasionally cull the strays, it's ownership that is the problem, lots of people who let their dog roam whislt they're at work. They seem to think that their dogs do no harm but they annoy the crap out of dogs behind fences! There would be 1 poor lab that has had so many pups, most of them that roam the streets are hers, mostly lab/sharpeis. It's even worse this time of year as the dingoes come in of the flood plains and close to the town, they attack some of these domestic dogs that are not kept home, or even worse mate with them. We have a ranger who is more interested in killing dogs than re-uniting with them with their owner and ID'ing a dog is hard as there are many looking similar mongrels. I'm concerned should my 2 get out and get taken in by the council i'll not see them again.

Got to say I don't think I could ever own a long haired breed or SWF, nor dogs with tails that bend over their back besides boxers. I love all bull breeds, i guess it's what i've always known and just couldn't own anything else, as i'll never get to own every bull breed.

I would def see a behaviourist if there is a good one in your area. My male is 15 months and the 4 year old bitch we have can be quiet assertive with him, she is the dominant dog with toys etc, but with food around he is the boss and has no worries in walking upto her bowl and trying to eat from it..? They're seperated at food times and whenever there is meat around. We're extra vigilant for all the tell tale signs of biffo, which with us is easy as the bitch just keeps escalating her warning until he can't submit any more and fights back.. ie he runs after the ball which by her rules he's not allowed to do! so she chases him, growls and he gives up the ball and she doesn't even want it.. of course chase to him is great so he head butts her or drags her around by the collar until she snaps! This happens 99.9% all within their comfort boundaries and they play, wrestle quite happily all day long, and we've only had one escalate into a fight. The only advice i can give is to praise good behavior, ignore the pup if she comes for pats first and muscles the others out of the way when you get home and feed her last. If she has clearly made her way up the pack over one of the other dogs, then you'll have to go with that arrangement. Good luck!

He must freight them everywhere!! You can find adds in just about every online market place, i've seen them advertised up in the NT news. Do other breeds suffer from this problem? or is just bull breeds...

Great video! lovely dogs!! how much of a boof is Chester!!

must be making a fortune! some of the other breeders even thank him and people write on his site saying,"oh you're dogs are so much better", these people will have never met a 'real' amstaff, if pitbulls were legal these people would be breeding them becasue that's what they really want (a name to let everyone know how tough they are), though they'd be putting them on stereroids and giving them a bad name too. If i wanted to make a big slow useless dog i breed like these people (though these dogs may be safer in the hands of the bogans instead of a high prey driven dog), if i wanted a big hunting dog with drive i get a proper hunting dog, if i wanted to be tough i'd go to the gym and get tough not buy a dog and put jewellery on it!

Not in the Oct journal - only Amstaffs, but now I'm going to go look back through a few back issues... Sonia Yikes, another 7 litters, same breeder, in the July Journal. 34 more puppies. All Amstaffs, all born in Dec/Jan/Feb... plus another breeder, different kennel name with two parent that have the first breeder's kennel name... Sonia ETA - Every journal I have opened so far has puppies bred by this one breeder, and I'm talking multiple litters per month. You're not on about a certain 'Greek' breeder are you, he must have 50 dogs on his yard. Hopefully the good breeders wil keep these dogs out of their breeding programs.

Yep i definately reckon some of these breeders have fudged papers, like i said one breeder on the DOL list was advertising amstaffs or ambulls on aussietrader. LOL bigger than a rotti! The thing is when people are looking for a dog that looks the goods, will they be able to handle a dog that is driven, stubborn or aggro..? i think not. And the extra grand for big blues, what a joke! this is why people buy unpapared dogs, because they sell for $300-600 in the local rag. I feel like writing on their websites how full of it they are and how they're misrepresenting the amstaffs, along with all the BYB in the paper selling "rare blues","rednose amstaffs", "american rednose", they're just kidding themselves.

I understand people can breed whatever they want and obviously no one has the power to say;"you can't do that", but I'm thinking more along the lines of clubs informing these breeders that it is not the best image for the Amstaff, or at least they could market them a little different to stop un wanted attention from and popularity among the thug type of dog owner. I bet most of their sales go to family homes and the dogs are great, but it only takes one, this is not to say the same couldn't happen to a "normal size amstaff breeder", or any other breed. I think these types of breeders are selling an image, they're putting too much of themsleves into their breeding. Unless the dogs are being bred very well, they'd be losing stamina and agility, I mean just look at the ambulls, nice looking dogs but not physically well put together.

You only have to look at some of the breeders on DOL, check out some prefixes they stand out a mile! Should the breed clubs be allowing breeders to do this? Why get into amstaffs or any dogs if all you want to do is change them, make them into a breed that they're not.

Ok this is a little rant.. but i'd like peoples views on it, i may get flamed. We all know about BSL etc.. and how popular amstaffs are becoming, the question is are the same breeders that are breeding "massive heads" "big bones" "extreme muscle" the very people that the breed doesn't need? I'm not disputing their breeding ethics or the quality of their dogs, but breeding 24" 40+kgs amstaffs and promoting how good they are at security and how muscular they are is the same thing that law makers say about resticted breeds being restricted because they're powerful dangerous dogs. (of which is rubbish and i totally disagree with) I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the dogs, or the breeders ideas, ( i disagree slightly) but surely they're attracting the wrong buyers. Many people love the look of amstaffs and i can see why they may like bigger ones but is at the expense of the breed? One breeder, says on their website "big amstaffs", but on another the same breeder says they're selling amstaffs or ambulls, are they fudging papers? Don't get me started on all the rednose amstaffs i've seen for sale!! If i wanted a decent functioning large breed, i'd buy a large breed dog, ie a scotts line american bulldog. It seems the popularity of the amstaff is growing because of media coverage and the links they're drawing to the apbt.

Road speed limits are there for safe driving conditions, that is based on research, facts and road fatalities. BSL is here because of none of them. No-one in Australia is an expert on the ID of pitbulls, the whole process as played out by the GCCC v's Chivers has shown us that ACO's and councils have been doing the wrong thing for years, ID'ing and killing family pets based on a false checklist.. In saying that I do agree with what you're saying, if you want to own a pitbull go somewhere where there aren't any restrictions, get a papered amstaff if that floats you're boat and you think you have a pitbull (not aimed at you donegal, but many have done so) It's not worth risking the life of a dog. But as long as people aren't doing anything about BSL it they are condoning the governments actions.