dasha

I am hoping to have a litter of working Border Collie pups. These are due 20th all going well

Import numbers haven't really changed with animals from UK since the regs changed. There are still plenty of them each week that arrive in Aus. There was a slight lag in numbers initially due to the time to wait 150 days but it didn't really change that much. Its a shame the freight costs have risen.....

Because current legislation states a MANDATORY min 30 day quarantine from all countries. The 180 days only applies to Cat 4 countries. Cat 2 countries have 30 days and no RNATT requirements. Cat 3 have mandatory 60 days at present. The 30 days gives AUSTRALIA the opportunity to identify any signs of illness that may not have shown yet. O/S vet services aren't always correct. There are a number of animals that arrive with health certs from overseas saying no sign of any disease, no external parasites present etc that turn up sick, covered in ticks, (so blood testing for Ehrlichia is then void) and then need retesting. Some turn up with incorrect blood tests, positive blood results even though the vet O/S has said it meets the permit requirements. These dogs get sent back and have to do the whole thing again. Some even have incorrect microchip numbers that no pre vet checks have checked correctly so imagine if Australia just believed the o/s export process - disaster

Yes a 10 day quarantine will only apply to animals that have done the 170 days prior to import. Animals will only be eligible for a 10 day quarantine if they have completed the 170 days since the RNATT date. If an animal has only done 100 days since RNATT it will stay for 80 days. So in effect the whole thing in dollars only saves 20 days of quarantine at $39 per day per dog and $29 per day per cat. The rest is still the same.

Well I took her to the dog on Thurs but she wasn't quite ready so looks like she will be right for Sunday on the way home. So she will be day 14 on Sun. Perfect timing. I will either leave her there Sun night and breed her Sun and then Mon am or breed her Sun am and then take her back Tues am for a second mating. I will see how she goes on Sunday. She has had one run today and she went well and she has another run tomorrow so she hopefully will run really well tomorrow

Well I took her to the dog on Thurs but she wasn't quite ready so looks like she will be right for Sunday on the way home. So she will be day 14 on Sun. Perfect timing. I will either leave her there Sun night and breed her Sun and then Mon am or breed her Sun am and then take her back Tues am for a second mating. I will see how she goes on Sunday. She has had one run today and she went well and she has another run tomorrow so she hopefully will run really well tomorrow

I wrote down the days she was mated so I knew when the pups were due, but hadn't calculated the exact day of her cycle it was. LOL I will be doing the pinch test before I go as I don't want to waste 4 hours of my only day off driving down there Lol. But after Mon I have to wait til Thurs as the owner of the dog after saying she is around every day ( I then suggested I come Tues afternoon/wed/thurs afternoons ) then tells me she is away all day Wed and likes to keep Tues afternoon free as she has stuff on Tues am. So we will just have to plan each day as it comes. She was mated over 3 days last time and then I brought her home. I had a male dog here at the time to mate a different bitch and even the following 2 days she prob would have stood for him if they were allowed together... Tart... So I am sure she at least has a few days to work with.

Well I have decided I will take her to the dog on Monday which is day 9 just to see her response. If she is still snapping his face off and she doesn't look ready, I will then take her back Thurs on my way down to the trial. Pretty sure Thurs she will be on. Then try again on Sat/Sun. As soon as I am finished at the trial on Sat or Sun, I will head straight back up there and try again. So it may even be Sat. So it looks like it will be check at day 9, 12, 14/15 From memory last year she was on for 3-4 days. The owner of the dog took her to her place last time after a trial and then waited til she came in. But I can't remember what day she was up to on the day she took her down. Oh well. I will just have to assess the next move each time I take her there. I may be able to look back at the timing of last year as I remember there is a trial in ACT that bitches in season can't go to and she came in straight after that and was in for the next one..... then she went home with the sire.

Noted HW. Phenotype in both dogs is great. Ideal in my books. Not genetically identical I know. But at least they both carry the same BLOODLINES which is what people want. This cross of lines with that cross of lines. Working people aren't looking to produce a mirror image in looks to the parent. They are looking for combination of lines that perform a duty and reliably pass those genes on. I don't choose a sire or dam on its own individual presentation. I pick them because of their parents and grandparent etc and what they have produced reliably and consistently through their own lives. Obviously the individual parents I use must also have inherited those same qualities that their lines are known for. The difference in what I breed for (function) is way more important than what conformation people breed for IMO. I NEED a dog that can do the job, not look like it might according to people that have probably never seen a beautiful working dog in action. They really take your breath away and to be honest, what you remember of that dog is the style and finesse, they way it controlled its stock in such a manner people only dream of having in their lines. You don't remember that the leg marking weren't even, or its ears may have not sat perfectly on its head, or heaven forbid the colour was a bit washed out or too much white. But you notice the ears moved each time its handler whistled or spoke, and how its body just seemed to change direction without any obvious effort and managed to control that animal that tried to get away, and managed to put it back in the mob even before the handler could have given a command to do so. Most people will not see work like that unless they venture out of the ANKC world and try and experience wider environments. So when I see my dogs work like that, and see my pups I have produced, also perform like that, I don't really care what opinions people form of me because I don't keep a pup, or am willing to change the sire at any time because until those people have had their breath taken away watching something like that, they cannot objectively contribute to what I do. My original post was a question of cycles and timing due to unforseen circumstances and poor timing, not a post on me having to justify what I do and explain to people why I ask a question. So thanks to the people that have helped answer my original question. And thanks to the others for posting to allow me to feel how other dog people may feel when they innocently ask a question and have the the jury report back.

Never come across that rule before Becks. I don't think there is only one dog around that would be the best for your bitch, that the beauty of having diverse lines in you breed. Plenty more fish in the sea. If its never been used before how do you know its the best. I am not keeping a pup as it would be a repeat mating. I am breeding it to supply other like minded dog people with top quality dogs bred to perform the function the breed was developed for, surely you wouldn't judge someone for that!!!!! And believe me, there is no profit made on selling working dogs for working dogs at the price they pay. The only way to make money is to supply pet homes believe me. I already kept 2 bitches from the previous litter and my friend has two other bitches from the litter. I really don't need anymore of that line. My bitch has had her heath testing done so I know what her status is. Thanks Jed for providing one of the non judgemental replies. I think thats what I will do.

The dollars aren't the problem really. I only paid half that fee last time. She doesn't think he is good enough for breeding as he hasn't won any major trials yet. I am not keeping a pup out of the litter so sire isn't really that important to me at this point. I am not waiting til next season as I have already had people waiting for pups for months and want these people to get one as they are extremely top quality sporting homes. I just don't want to miss this season which is why I was hoping to get some ideas of which days are best or if it is too unreliable to use dog 1, I could just use brother and save the hassles.

No more trials til March next year and have been training dogs for months to get them to this one. He is a higher service fee because his owner says she can sell pet pups for $800 with no papers so thats how much she wants. Normal working dog stud fees are $300- $500 max. The top dog in Australia was only $400.

Its a sheepdog trial so they are allowed to trial and believe it or not, people never seem to complain about their dogs not working as there is bitches around. Those dogs live and work around bitches every day and they are used to it. Obviously people are careful and not toilet their bitches at the entrance to the trial ground. The rules were changed a few years ago in favour of trialling bitches rather than not as they said people have the bitches there anyway as they are generally travelling the circuit and won't leave bitches at home for someone else to look after and risk accidents. They are safer at the trial in their cars or cages than out of the owners control. If the bitches are there anyway they may as well trial. There isn't really any accidents and complaints. She will be safely secured inside the trailer and exercised alone. The dog in option 3 is a litter brother to the preferred dog so genetically the same. So as close to the real thing. He is also a cheaper service fee!!!

As the title says, if you only had limited access to use the sire and you wanted to use him, which days of the cycle of the bitch would you choose to mate her. I don't have access to vets to do the hormone testing either so it is just a matter of mating and hoping for the best. Due to busy lives, access to the dogs will be limited. She is day 2 now. The options are 1) drop her off Sunday and pick her up Monday. 2) try her Thurs then Sun which would be day 11 and 14. Those days will not be able to be changed as I will be taking her to a dog trial on Thurs and not back til Sun. 3) Try a different dog and be able to have him here for a week or so to be able to access him when she is ready. 4) Use another dog that lives a lot closer that I can prob access during the week next week but not between Thurs and Sun.(day 11-14) So many decisions and any advice would be great.

I agree with the pups will instinctively move away from their eating/sleeping area to go to the toilet. They certainly start his from an ear,y age. Watching then climb out of bed, drag themselves away from everything then pee or poop, then come racing back to wrestle another is so funny. Like Steve said, as long as pups whether they are outside or inside kennelled, have somewhere to go to the toilet, the rest of it is just developed as they move to new homes etc. So they just need a big enough area that they can do this.

I have bred 2 litters of Border Collie Pups and they were born and raised OUTSIDE and born in June last year. The bitches have a garden shed divided in half with a whelping area and plenty of room around the bed to get around and about. There is a light in there and I did put a heater in at night as it gets below zero here. Even with the heater, inside got down to 1 degree at times. The pups got used to noises of shed doors opening, slamming shut, lawnmowers driving past their door, other dogs barking. They also got used to the sound of thunder storms, loud rain on a tin roof (sounds that inside puppies are often sheltered from) the sound of a hose washing next to their bedding. They also has sun coming in the door and so they could learn about the sun for warmth and shade for cool. Once they were mobile, the door would be opened and they could go down a step to the grass and they would roll around on the grass while I hosed their shed. Even if it was raining, they were taken outside. The shed floor was concrete with paper on some parts and then there was grass outside. My nieces would often come to visit as they are young and they regularly were mauled in play by the pups. Their shoes were never the same. I had a plastic chair in the shed all the time so they could play under it etc and also so the kids could stand on it to get away from the puppies. I also have friends with kids and they would also come to show the kids the pups. Once the pups could walk around a bit they would have a turn at coming inside while we watched TV and get put on the slippery cork floor to slide around on to get used to it and the inside sounds. At about 4-5 weeks, they would get a car trip one at a time with one of the other dogs in a cage in the ute to get used to the movement of cars and sounds of traffic. We live in a semi rural area so not heavy traffic at all. If I was just driving down the road to the shop, or a quick trip, I would put one in for the drive. One of my kelpies was the travel companion as she loves pups and was trying to mother them the whole time and she is a great traveller so she looked after them. One they got to be about 5-6 weeks old, the 2 litters were combined into a stable during the day to mix and play. They had to follow me down the hill past the pool and horse paddocks to get there but thats when they learned a recall and to follow people. There was also a retaining wall they had to work out how to get down the low end. They ran on the gravel driveway and on the grass. In there stable they had wooden boards and a kennel to play in (or destroy). Some would learn to climb up on top of it to keep the treasure from the others. Others slept in it or they just used it as a roundabout. There was a ramp they could play on and under and got used to any surfaces both rough and smooth, stable and unstable. It was just part of their life. Each person that got a pup all commented on how well adjusted they were and didn't make a sound at their new homes even on the first night. They had grown up being used to being put in pens and crying doesn't get them anywhere, got used to going new places both with their mother or litters or also by themselves and they had NO problem adjusting to being inside and outside dogs, toilet training was no issue for them either. My next litter will be born in January in summer so they will have a different start as the shed gets too hot in the day. But the place they sleep will be outside and nothing else will change. Best advice is to go and check them out individually and their dogs. Even the best socialised puppy can still have behavioural issues if the genetics aren't their. If there is nervousness in any of the parents it will prob be there with the pups no matter how well it is socialised.

Personally I think the more you focus on an object he has an irrational fear of, (unless of course he has had a traumatic experience on it) the more it will become an issue because you are focusing on the floor. You have already said he won't take food or toys well. If that was my dog I would pick him up, calmly walk to the middle of the floor, put him down say NOTHING and walk away and go about your business. Lets face it, he will not live there. He will eventually move a paw and then 2 then he will walk over it to get what he want, which is off the floor. Don't make allowances for something that he is going to encounter all day every day. Its for him to work out. When you walk across the floor to go outside, just leave the door open behind you, don't call him just leave the option there for him to follow you out. o and play ball or something fun outside or just go and sit on the lawn and make him realise its him missing out by choice. You didn't do it to him. When he gets to the carpet, then praise, but not over the top. Don't make a big deal out of it as it is just floor. Its not a box of crackers. The way I see it, different floors are a part of life, especially for an inside dog, he just needs to get over it. You may need to do it a few times but each time it will be easier for him. Whatever you do, don't get him excited on the floor as if he tries to be happy and slips, you will make it worse. LEt him work it out at his own pace. This way you are also not the bad guy. He just has to figure it out. I do it to my pups when very young if they show signs of hesitation. They all all over it within 5 mins and never have a problem later. It makes then realise they can do things they thought they couldn't. Don't put your emotions on him as well. By soothing him and coaxing him you are telling him there is something to be scared of but he is doing a good job touching it. But he isn't doing anything that he needs coaxing for. Thats just me. I have done it before and would also do it again if needed.

Look up Saxon K9. They are in Eastern Suburbs

THey are lovely dogs. I have met Flo Jo a few times when she returns from overseas. She definitely deserves to retire. Glad they both get to enjoy the rest of their lives without the stress of war on their minds

I am certainly not a show person but would pick Pup 2. From the front Pup 1 already has RF foot turning in. As pup grows and shoulders expand, I would be concerned this would then be exaggerated. Pup 2 has even front legs and as chest fills, I feel it would develop across there nicely. Pup 2 has a better topline. It is more level between the wither and hips than Pup 1. Pup 1 has a little arch in its back. Pup 2 has a better matched neck. By this I mean the top part of neck (throat) looks like it then thickens out to match the bottom part near shoulder. It does this in proportion. I think Pup 1 has a thin part under throat and then a thick part at shoulder. I think if you were to cover the body from mid neck and look at the 2 sections, Pup 2 joins a lot smoother and each section would match. Pup 1 is tidier in the rump where the tail joins. It does flow on as a continuation of the spine whereas pup 2 has a distinct rump/tail junction. Not sure if this is an issue though as not familiar with the breed AT ALL and have never shown a dog. I have shown horses and cattle though but these look nothing like them. LOL Does pup 1 have a little concave section in the sternum area in the front on pic? It may just be the colouration difference in the pups that allows that to be seen. So given I have no experience in selection of show traits in dogs, I would pick PUPPY 2 Good luck choosing.

Once the policies are finalised, it then needs to go through parliament to get the legislation changed. Then it needs to be advertised and a change over period as it means current permits will then not be valid. So I think it will be MANY months away yet so if you are looking to import, I would not be waiting for the changes.

I don't guarantee I will buy it back. I would offer. Depending on the dog, my situation, the reasons for them not wanting it. I DNA my dogs for my own knowledge. It is near impossible to get a working dog sire that had had any/some DNA testing which is why I do mine. Then I know if I need to be concerned about anything. So far I am good. If there is a sire I like, I may very well have to do some testing before I use it but I would then some working dog people don't want to know the status of their dogs as they don't want to know. Working dog people also don't pay much for puppies so extensive testing becomes very expensive. I test my bitches so I know their status. The market that your dogs go to determines the likliehood of returns, the reason for returns. Like I said, I screen my homes as best as possible. They have so far gone to sporting homes and people are VERY happy with them and I have orders for more so I think the return rate will be extremely low. I am prepared to wear that risk and take each issue as it comes.

I don't guarantee anything with my pups. I do my best to health screen parents for my own benefit and the benefit of the dogs. I inform the buyers of any potential problem if required. I do my best to screen the buyers. I keep in contact with the buyers and if they decide they didn't/couldn't keep the dog, I would offer their money back and rehome. (which I have done) Unless of course they already had a suitable home for it. In some cases the buyer may onsell the dog later. I breed working Border Collies. You can't really offer a blanket guarantee on health. It would have to list specific things. The only thing I would guarantee is that the dog will work. If not, I would rather get it back and pet home if the pup was purchased as a working prospect. Thats just my opinion.

When I was a lot younger "my"dog was the one that lived next door. Penny would be let off her chain in the morning from her house, she would then come to our place to hang out with me. When I was old enough to drive, I took her to agility training and trialled her. I titled her in agility as well. People didn't even realise she wasn't my dog as she was so bonded to me. Somehow it came up about dogs and I said that I wanted to get my own new dog as I really wanted to keep doing agility and Penny was going to be moving house. People were surprised that I only borrowed her. When I would get home from training I would either walk her home and tie her up or if it wasn't too late I would say "Penny go home" and she would have sad eyes and walk home. When they moved house, when I went to visit she would be so excited and when the words "See yo then" were said, she would race around and jump in the back of the ute or through the window if it was down so she could come for a drive with me. So there can definitely cases when your dog is really NOT your dog. Penny had no idea I didn't own her but she loved me most.

Huski its not just working dogs that have a variation within the litter. We are only referring to them at present as that is what Kavik is after - a working bred dog for agility The research should be done before she goes to the property to pick it up. The only kind of test in my mind that may be done at the time of picking the individual puppy is just a basic attitude test. Although its not even a test. You look and handle them, if you like what you see, take one. Do I worry about prey drive at 7 weeks - NOPE, it will be developed by a good trainer/handler Do I worry about food drive- NOPE see above I DO worry about a pup that has no interest in coming to the people or would rather run off and actively look for other activities. That one would stay there. Nerve can be enhanced or ruined by owners so as long as I see a litter of healthy, happy pups that come and greet people, I am happy. If I see a litter and they scatter like cats when a shadow approaches, I would seriously reconsider. The only kind of things I may do it "accidently" bump something loud around them and check their response and recovery times without making a deal or something like that. I may have a biscuit or something and hold it so it is really hard for pup to get out. I like to see persistance but rather than keep trying too much, I would rather see one dog and scratch at hand then resign and sit an look at me asking to fix it. But this doesn't need to be done before buying as it can be so well moulded from day 1. So much of a dog is a DIRECT representation of its upbringing so picking at 7 weeks really shouldn't cause too much issues. If I have decided I am going to get a pup, I research the parents and their temperaments. If they appear compatible, I say I will get one. My criteria then becomes, female, dark head, so no dog with a all white face, outgoing friendly. I believe when selecting a dog and bitch to breed, it should be like to like therefore you can have more confidence in what you will produce. There would only be mild variation within the litter. Its when breeders try to pick a dog with a major flaw and try to correct that flaw by using a bitch that is opposite and hope to get something in the middle. This only creates a litter that can vary from one end of the scale to the other in that trait, and thats without even considering the other traits of the parents. I picked my last dog out of the back of the ute. The breeder drove halfway and there was 2 boys, 2 girls. I wanted girl and she had to look more border collie than not. 1 female was white, 1 blk and white. I picked the black and white. I couldn't have been happier. I could have spent an hour procrastinating, wasting the breeders time, and realistically if there is nothing DRAMATICALLY wrong with any of them, go ahead.