dasha

Which new format are you meaning? My dog was bred to be a station dog with more yard type breeding. She has however thrown back to someone futher back in her breeding as is much better suited to working wider and calmer. I did a lot of yard work with her and trialled her in Yard trials just to get exposure to proper sheep and confidence to work closer. Her natural preference is to cover wide and so I am going to pursue the 3 sheep avenue for her. She is much better suited for that. Even her breeder was surprised as she has a lot of yard blood. I would rather do yard trials and although she can get around with a good score it really is like flogging a dead horse so to speak. You will always get better results if you enhance what the animal does better naturally.

Hi Caro, Is Milo still around??? I have put the word out and have someone that may be interested!! I will e-mail Cherie too to find out.

Sidoney, You seen to be having the same trouble I have also. It is very frustrating to have sheep that are dogged for the exact reasons you say. I also find that these sheep also teach bad habits to experienced dogs. In a majority of cases the only way for the dog to get any respect for the dog as for the dog to end up rushing in to bite at them as the sheep are so used to having 20 novice dogs racing around them for hours and they are too tired to run or just used to dogs. The other problem is that when having these inexperienced dogs chasing the sheep, the sheep soon get a bit sick of it and start to take the novice dogs on and will usually win as the dogs get scared and back off so you are really endangering your dogs. The sheep get too confident and start to take the dogs on which isn't ideal for more advanced dogs as it is not normal behaviour for sheep that would be used in trials or on a farm. As you have discovered, the dogs don't learn to cover over any distance as the sheep that are available at training never break when the pressure is on and so the dog doesn't get to learn about applying correct pressure and reading sheep. I found that I was able to help my dog alot with Indian Runner ducks. I have 5 acres and so I could work them out in the paddock and next door. These ducks to not hang around a handler or dog believe me. If the dog isn't switched on - you lose the ducks as they run away - but then you get to cast again I am also looking in to approaching the knackery to ask about using their sheep. I am also going to ask the neighbours if I can run a few sheep on their 40 acres so I can train when I want and get new sheep when I need them so I can have a supply of "runny" sheep. You really need to enter the trials though to see the areas you need to work on as you don't get a good guide from the club sheep. In some ways you have to use the trials for training. Are you looking at doing 3 sheep or yard trials with your dogs?

I have Border Collie that scratched incessantly from about that age too. He couldn't even run and play with the other dogs with out trying to scatch as well. He is now 10 years old and has never had a scratch free day. I have learnt though over the years of treating his allergies that it is very food related but he also has environmental allergies. I use revolution on him as I have found for some reason it helps, I wash him in Fido's Oatmeal and Baking Soda shampoo, I try to feed him ADVACE Energy. EUKANUBA made his scratching worse which we suspect is the highly concentrated protein. A lot of other foods also aggravated his allergies. He does OK on Bonnie working dog too. Nothing has STOPPED him scratching but these methods have certainly relieved some of the itch. At times his itching will flare up and so he gets Phenergan to help him and maybe a trip to vet for a short acting dose of Cortisone and then the bathing (in coolish water) more frequently etc until he settles. I found most of the shampoos made for itchy dogs made him worse but the one I suggested has been great for my dog. Hopefully your pups allergies are a transient thing as a dog with lifetime allergies as a nightmare and I certainly wouldn't want to go through it again

It has been around a while but I think they have changed the formula thats why they are thinking its new. I fed it to my dogs for a while and didn't have any problems with it. I feed either Bonnie working Dog or Coprice Working Dog depending on what gets delived when I order the horse feed. I didn't find it that much different in results to the Bonnie. It is definately not a premium food but neither is Bonnie. Premium foods are not an option for a lot of people to feed and so have to make the most of other foods available. I prefer to feed ADVANCE ENERGY but can be hard to get at a good price sometimes so Bonnie and Coprice are the other ones I choose.

Just an update. My supervisor did contact Cherie today in regards to Milo. Unfortunately it seems he doesn't cope well with a kennel scenario and so he won't be able to come and work for us. Very sad, I was really hoping we would get him as I had a feeling he would be super. He looks great and his description sounded great. I am very tempted to take him and train him for agility but I am not really after another dog yet. I have been asking around for him. I really hope something comes up soon for him

One of the clubs here actually had made more money before herding came about. It just got railroaded by money hungry intructors that are more interested in immediate gain than the future of the sport. A sport is not about getting clubs to make money. A sport is about trying to be the best and improve all the time and I don't feel that introducing "herding" is a conducive to preserving the sport of Sheepdog trialling. Is there anything wrong with researching good lines and ins and outs of a sport before getting involved I ask? If you don't know what your end result should be, how are you gonna know what to get? Who doesn't plan for their next dog. Do show people not plan matings in the hope of producing their next winner, or do obedience people not look into lines to pick one from successful lines in order to compete in their chosen sport. I am sure any person on here that has an interest (breeder) would tell any potential newcomer to research all they can about the breed before getting involved. I still feel that "herding" was brought about for a multitude of reasons. One of being an activity that people can take part in with their dog with some working heritage and it has been made more appeallling by adding the possibility of titles to it. Money is another major reason. State Canine regulatory bodies are of course very suppotive as all herding members need to be a member of that body (for Insurance purposes surely) in order to take part. How convenient. But if your working bred pedigreed dog isn't registered with them you can't enter so yet another fee to register, or of course you could support the mainstream bench type dogs by purchasing one of those from a breeder with titled dogs as they are from working lines now and good looking. I am not saying that people with show dogs or alternative working dog breeds shouldn't be given the opportunity to take part in herding activities but I don't feel they are entitiled to make a competition sport from it when these people weren't interested in taking part in sheepdog trials previously as they were too hard unless you had a dog bred for this sport. Vickie - hi there. Glad to hear that club is possibly improving. I won't be there for a while yet - foot still in plaster. you should know the pic - you took it mjk05- I think we all start out with some pretty average dogs. But when you realise it is a sport you want to pursue you know you need to get a purpose bred dog. Like anything. Like you, I don't think that people shouldn't be given the opportunity to learn about the basics and to get a feel for the sport but I think it shouldn't be a titlted hobby. Sounds like you are enjoying your dogs and are sensible to know their capabilities. It is the best way to be. I know my dogs all have their own faults in some way but by ignoring them, I am kidding myself. I believe that every animal we have is sent here to teach us something but by denying faults you are denying the opportunity to learn and become abetter peron for it.

Mooper, I do agree about the clubs. However around here the clubs have turned into herding clubs. I feel this is due to a lot of non rural owners have a "working dog" that may have worked about 100 years ago but as there is not enough instinct there to aim at trialling in a tough skilled sport, the clubs tend to bow down to what the members needs for an average dog. IE dogged sheep, easy tests to encourage people to pay their training fees every week. Rather than explain to people that they have a dog that is enjoying itself, but if they want to be serious about it, they may need a better bred dog from proven "working" lines with a guarantee to work (not potter around a pen). Surprisingly too they are usually cheaper! The club need to make money and if people are discouraged tehy don't come back therefore lose money. If you make it better for them, even if it is false hope, at least the club will get the traing fees. In order to train for trial with more life like sheep it seems the only way to do it is to have my own sheep that I can change when I need to and not have 50 dogs run aimlessly around for 5 hours a day

I may also don my flame suit. I have seen our local clubs gradually diminish from being a working dog club to basically a herding club. A lot of instructors that have been around for years can see the $$$$$ signs tick over. If you tell people that their dog shows instinct and make the owners feel good, they will come back. In reality they are giving owners false hope and ripping them off. I try to train my dogs for 3 sheep and yard dog trials yet I am trying to do this on sheep that are so dogged and trained you only have to take a dog near the yard and the sheep run over to you. It is very frustrating. When the working people suggest new sheep the herding guys say no as these "quiet" sheep are good for the herding dogs as these inexperienced dogs wouldn't handle sheep with any go in them. I'm sorry but in my opinion I think the herding will eventually be the demise of the true working sheepdog. It almost makes mockery of the dogs that have been selectively bred and developed for many generations and have been the backbone of Australia Heritage get punted out in favour in inferior dogs that have a sport designed to suit as the traditional sheepdog sport is too hard. I know I am going to be hammered for this post but is is just my honest opinion and I get very frustrated by it. I think that The Kelpie clubs and working sheepdog training clubs need to stand up for what the generations before them have worked so hard for and need to protect the lines and integrity of the real working dog before its too late. Better get that suit now

Jesomil, I believe that what you have just said is what I would say is a true instinct. When even without training he gathered the stock and started to bring them to you. And he also adjusted himself according to your actions. I believe this is a desirable instinct as opposed to the chase instinct I have seen at so many of the sheepdog training clubs. There is a distinct difference between controlling a chase drive through obedience or simply guiding and enhancing a natural instinct to gather and fetch. Again you would be looking for different instinct behaviours between a driving dog and a heading dog as opposed to one that has the drive to chase around and around with its head in the crouch, stalk position. I think if you were wanting a driving dog, the natural instinct you would be looking for would be a dog that without any training would go straight behind the stock and push them usually away from the handler and keep them together (loose definition thanks) but also without spooking or running the sheep too hard or splitting the mob into multiple groups. If I was after a heading dog I would be looking for a dog that without any training would naturally arc around to the head of the stock and turn them back towards the handler (farmer) and gather the mob and bring them back at a pace adapted to the sheep. These dogs should apply the appropriate amount of pressure on the stock to move them but not split them but also not too little pressure that you have a whole line of stock coming back in a fan shape. In my opinion good sheepdog should be able to work over a large area, often unsupervised yet have the ability and desire to carry out what its genetics suggest. By that I mean that a dog should be able to be taken somewhere new sent out around the sheep and it should have enough desire to just want to do that not run and sniff and cock legs etc but also have the ability to gather the mob and bring them back to me (if its a heading dog) without me telling the dog where it should be positioned or the distance it should be from the sheep while I can stay at the yards to set up gates, fences, drench etc and I can trust the sheep will be delivered to the yards in good condition (not run too fast or wasted too much time walking).

Ok. Thanks heaps for that information. I have notified my supervisor of Milo yesterday and haven't had a reply. I will contact him first thing tomorrow and remind him so we can hopefully sort something for Milo. Smell oriented is a great start!! It doesn't matter about bringing the ball back so far he just needs to want to find it if we hide it!!!! Thanks heaps for all your help and I will let you know how I go.

I was actually enquiring for that reason. I was wondering about his drive as I am interested in him as a potential detector dog. We need dogs like you said that will do anything for their toy or food and are keen enough to do it quite frequently. They also need to have a keen nose and being lab/cocker cross I think a hunt drive would be present. He also is inclined to dig so a dig response would not be too hard to achieve! The problem I have is that I am not able to drive for another few weeks as I have plaster on my foot so I can't go there to look at him or to collect him so would need to find transport for him to Sydney. I am tempted to take a chance on him as he has the 'look' of a potential recruit however the transport is still a problem. Do you know how much time he has left. I noticed another dog on the RSPCA website called Kooch and was also considering him. How much does Milo cost? I can't remember

Hi Caro, I noticed the ad said high drive. Juat wondering what type of drive. Has he got a good retrieve/hunt/play drive? Roughly how big would he be?

7 year old Kelpie get 1-1.5 cups Bonnie Working dog biscuits. 3 year old Kelpie gets 3 cups Bonnie Working dog 10 year old Border Collie gets 2 cups Bonnie Working dog Plus they get bones a few times a week and food scraps and treats and however many rabbits they catch or steal from the cats and maybe an egg a week depending on supply and what ever horse feed they can con from the horses trough

I have a Border Collie and I clip him myself. I bought a pair of Oster Clippers to use and I have 2 blades. I clip him fairly short for summer as it helps his itchy skin. I am assuming from the comments here you have a poodle. I think you should have a go. For the investment you put in at the start it will certainly pay off. Yeah your first few trims may be a bit average but it will improve. If they are not show dogs, you could get away with a modified pet clip. I used to work in a vet clinic so have done a few clips of various breeds but we mainly did them for comfort not style. Thats not to say we just shaved all the hair off. I did do a few Scottish teriiers and a range of SWF and poodles. I do remember having to do my first poodle and it was a 6 month old standard poodle that had never had a clip. I was wondering how I was going to get this big black fluffy dog to look like a poodle. Luckily there was another poodle in the clinic that day so I used it as a rough guide and it all turned out OK. It needed a few little tidy ups here and there in its next few clips but it is easy to grasp after a few practices. Give it a go. You can always tidy up little bits as you go as they are yours. PS- Practice on friends/neighbours dogs first hehehehehe (if they just have pets in the backyard)

Dogs aren't like humans in their taste for food and needing something different all the time. They eat to get the nutrition required to live, not because they crave something sweet or savoury for instance. They will happily eat a good dog meal day after day. Depending on what you are feeding your dog, you could use a different meat base every few days if you make it yourself. My dogs are basically fed a good quality Working dog formula of dry food. I buy in in large bags so the eat it everyday until it is finished and they love it. For variety they get some lamb necks, briket bones, chicken wings, table scraps and training treats. Sometimes I give them some eggs or sardines for a treat. I have fed my dogs like that for many years and never had any health or nutrition problems ever. That is just my opinion and I have found that it works so far. My dogs love their tucker and have never turned their noses up at food just because its what they have had for the last 6 months!

I think some are just inclined to see the world. I have had dogs for 20 years and we live on a rural property with no real fences. Up until now, i have never had a dog that wandered. When I go to work, they just sit at home and wait. They play and amuse themselves. I have one dog now that runs away at every opportunity. Even when we are home. If you turn your back or go inside for a few mins, she is gone. She goes up to a house with 2 JRT that used to wander down here as pups and she followed them home once. Now she is locked up in a pen or on a chain when I am not doing stuff with her She has toys here and other dogs to play with and people but she still goes. So it isn't a training problem. She is just is adventurous. If I can, i would like to stop her doing it but have no idea how or if I can

Just wandering what time people meet at the park. If I can make it, it will be my first visit.

K9: ask? this is one problem, there is no asking in training... I used that word as if I say "I command her" people will assume I am being too firm in my tone for a soft dog. The command I use is Come and she does understand it however she still has the conflict in her head as I explained. She does come but it is with her behaviour showing she is ready to turn around and run away if I was to change my posture or eye movements. She always is rewarded for coming whether it be with praise, pat, food, game. She is not "asked" to do anything, she is directed to do it and I expect her to comply. She doesn't really get anything for free I don't think. When I do prey drive stuff with her she really sparks up and isn't scared of me at all as it really gets her going.

I will be doing that. I just need to do something until I can go as I am not able to drive until Nov as I have plaster on my foot. I can walk but no driving. Very frustrating. As I did a lot of drive work with her since she was a pup and I let her win a lot I am wondering if maybe that was a bad thing. In my job, we always let the dog win the game as it keeps him keen and confident and as my pet dog was so soft, I let her win alot so she would get a lot more confident. I want to work at something in the mean time so I can get as much out of the lesson when I can go there if you know what I mean. I don't want to get there and then be told I need to change the way I feed her for instance. I am using TOT now and I am trying to do more 1 on 1 with her but just want some ideas of what exercises I can do before I go to see Steve.

I am after some help with my Kelpie. I seem to have a personality clash with my dog and I need to fix it. I play games with her (that she likes), I train her (no corrections as she is very soft), I feed her and take her places, I do all the things she likes but it is like she doesn't trust me or like me much. She acts scared of me often and won't come near me if I have anything in my hand. Whether it is a phone, a pen, anything except food. She always knows when I have food even if I hide it before i go out the door. I live on a rural block too with no fences and I have had dogs for 20 years and they have never wandered away until now. If I turn my back to go inside for more than 5 mins she runs away. She does go to a house up the road with little JRT's to play. I have asked the owners to chase her away and send her home however they think she is a lovely dog and don't mind her coming. My other dogs are here she can play with but she just goes up the driveway and up the street. I now have to confine her in a small pen now which she seems to spend 90%of her time in as she can't be trusted to hang around. I need some help in trying to make our relationship a better one as I can't understand why she is always thinking the worst when I want her. When I ask her to come its like she has to think about it and you can see the stress in her head as to what she should do. I have had her since 6 weeks old so she hasn't been mistreated before I got her and she has never been scolded for anything after coming. She does loving playing prey games and when we do those she is a very confident dog. When she was young I would let her win the tug of war games etc to give her confidence but she will always give the toy back to play again. I just want to know if anyone has any ideas on how to help us get along better?

Hi, I think the Eukanuba has a fish and potato diet. It is made for use in an elimination trial. Also, maybe the chicken fat would be OK as it is usually the animal PROTEIN that causes the reaction and I don't think fat has protein in it. There is also a supercoat 'senstive'. Not sure of the ingredients though. I have a very allergic dog and it helped. unfortunately things like special diets tdo cost a bit extra but when you do it ofr your dog it is worth it. Sometimes it is only for a short time to find the actual problem then cheaper options can be tried. You will not be able to try the food that ASHKA suggested as it it illegal to import pet food into Australia without certain permits. Just so you don't pay for it and find it gets confiscated.

The detection dogs are classified as active or passive depending on the "response" they are trained to give. The term 'Active' means that the dog will give an active response to the item such as digging or biting. The term 'Passive' means the dog has passive response to item such as sitting, dropping or freezing. The dogs on that show are all trined using a 'dummy' (rolled up towel) as a reward but are trained to use a different reaponse depending on the situation they are in. For instance if they detect something on a person they will si but if it is in a box or box or inanimate object, they will dig. So you can have 'Active' response - food reward and 'passive' response with a tug game if you get what i mean, it just depends on the way the dog needs to work in each area

Thanks K9. She circles the food while watching the other bitch that she fights with. She doesn't give 2 hoots what I do while she is eating!! Just as long as that other bitch doesn't get near her food. And yes she does guard her food terribly but only from other dogs. People don't worry her at all around food.

My dogs eat like they haven't seen food for weeks. I give them lamb necks as they have meat on them as well as a bone that is big enough they can't just gulp it down so they actually get the benefit of chewing it. The bone is still also soft enough to do the cleaning but not break the dogs teeth! You could get them sawn in half length ways too for while they are still pups. If I can't give lamb neck I give brisket bones for the same reason. I find some of the bigger dogs wll just devour a mutton flap in about 2 mouthfuls and that is a big chunk to get stuck