dasha

Kavik, I am not saying to not tug with him anymore just maybe not obsess with it. If I had a dog that was showing lack of determination on a tug/toy, I personally wouldn't do any "outs" with him. I would let him get the toy, "own" the toy, engage in a tug game (very short and intense) and has he pulls back to tug let him have it and make a big deal of it and let him have it. Even if he hardly put any effort into it, let him take it. Clap and cheer, make a game of trying to catch him for it, then he gets to keep it. I would not do any outs on a tug toy with him for ages. Make him keen to hold possession of it. May take months. Once he wins it, if he wants to sit and chew it for a min, let him. Then when you want it back, make a game of creeping up on the toy, while he is laying there, and when your hand gets close, if he goes to hold it again, move your hand back so he won it again, repeat a few times. When you actually get it, make a big deal of it, wave it in front of him, tease him with it, make him want it, then hide it in your pocket, while he is watching. With some of mine, if they are trying really hard to get it while I tease them.... and I mean really badly, like jumping madly into me, or pushing themselves harder to get it, I will let them get it. Then repeat the whole possession thing again. Make it a big deal. It is a very high energy game for both you and the dog. So you need to put a big effort in as well to be as animated as possible. Laugh, squeal, clap etc. Its all in. If you don't do that at the start, it won't be a fun game for the dog. Keep the controlled outs for retrieve items if thats what you do with him.

Every dog has a different idea of what is rewarding with a tug toy. Some like to parade it, some like it if when they win it, you clap etc and let them keep it, others just want to hold it and circle you. Some want you to "try" to win it back from them as they like to possess it rather than tug on it. Let him dictate the game for now and then develop that, once it has got some value for him. Personally you trying to MAKE him play with a TOY in the way you want him to rather than how he finds it rewarding is possibly your biggest problem. You want him to tug but then he grabs his lead so you stop him. Not really helping him at this stage of developing his want to tug IMO. Obviously I have never seen your dog or how he does or doesn't play/tug or your interaction with him so it makes it hard to see what may or may not work. Not all dogs tug. Not all working bred dogs will tug/fetch wrestle. It is a very individual thing in dogs. As the trainer, it is your job to find out what motivates the dog the most and then be able to adapt and use that desire to your program. Maybe you need to change your ideas of what is a valuable reward for him and go with it. It sounds like he has given you plenty of hints over the time. YUM YUM FOOD> Maybe you can let him teach you some things on how to train a dog in drive using food as the main reward.

Good on you and hope things go better in the future when if you decide to get another dog.

krystal&coco, Does it really matter. Maybe they didn't ask as they would rather not know. Sometimes that is better. The pup was returned and hopefully money refunded and that is the end of the story. If the decision is made to return it, sometimes it is best to walk away. Otherwise there will always be questions of if you did the right thing. What the breeder does with the pup really isn't anyone's business and it probably shouldn't be written on a public forum to create more interest. JMO

It is quite quirky. The shots of the car moving with the dogs at the window would be done on a low loader (trailer being towed) with the cameras on it as well as a wind machine probably. He would have been tied in but just so you couldn't see it.

Personally I would return the pup for a refund. Usually when you buy a pup its because you want to enjoy all the fun you can have, maybe do a dog sport, include it in fun activities etc. You wouldn't volunteer to spend possibly thousands of dollars on a dog because you feel sorry for it so you shouldn't feel that you should do so in this case. People should not judge you if you choose to return this pup. It is you that may end up spending a lot of money on this dog because you feel obliged or feel that others will think you are thoughtless, so it really comes down to what you can afford. Dogs can live a long time and I would rather enjoy my dog than be worried :should I let him do that, will he be ok when its hot, Have to lock him up when playing with other dog so he doesn't get excited and collapse" etc. Having a dog with a health problem really can affect a whole range of things. Who minds it when you go away, what happens if something bad happens when you are away, can't afford holidays because of the money you have spent on the dogs over the years. Yes you may be a little attached now, but like Dancinbcs said, you will be a lot more attached later when things start going wrong. I was speaking to a lady last week that just imported her 12 year old lab as she wanted him to enjoy the move to Australia. The flights really knocked him around and she said she actually feels bad now and sometimes we thing with our hearts not our heads and in hindsight she should have not put him through it. It comes down to what you can afford. Then again, you may do tests, and he does eventually grow out of it or anything. Good luck with the decision and hope it isn't too stressful.

I tossed this up as well ages ago. Depending on what type of things you do with your dogs too. If you do sports that may not always be on a solid road such as retrieving trials etc you may want to look at the 4wd option. Not all 4wd are big. I got the NAvara D22. It is not as tall as the Hilux and D40 so it is still easy to access and put dogs in the back etc as well as gear. IMO Station wagon PRO's 1, Aircon, 2- CAN be easier to park CONS 1- Can't park it to go to shop and leave dogs in there. 2- the glass windows magnify heat so when stopped, you need to leave windows down (security issue), 3- Dogs are also having to travel on top of your stuff if you can't put it on back seat. 4- if you camp off road and it rains, you may have trouble getting back onto the road without AWD/4WD (even wet grass can be a problem) DUAL Cab PROS 1- Can secure the back when you are not there, ie at motel, getting stuff when travelling, 2- if you do sports that may take you off a solid surface, you will not get bogged or have trouble in wet grass. 3- if you get a normal size 4WD, parking is not a problem (reverse park and you will have no problems) 4- If its raining and your dogs are wet/muddy, they can still get in the back without wetting and smelling out the car. 5- Can put a false floor in back to still use it for storage of things and still put crates/dogs in 6- Can take passengers if needed and they don't have heavy breathing over their shoulders LOL 7- Can play music as loud as you want and don't have to worry about their hearing loss. 8- are big enough to tow a trailer if later down the track you need to CONS 1- Initial cost to buy may be higher and also to deck it out how you want 2- Heat may be hard but its Australia so it gets hot no matter what. Just put fly mesh on all windows and grill so you can leave windows all open for maximum airflow. Although you can get insulated canopies so that may well reduce that dramatically.

I have used it and had no problems with my dogs so far. I have 3 pups that are 6 months old that will probably get their first dose this weekend. Will see how it goes. None of my other 4 have had a problem so far.

I have trouble finding bones that are suitable for my dogs too. Mine are absolute pigs. Chicken necks are out for 3 as they eat them like a seal eats a fish - NO chewing just enter mouth and swallow in any direction Chicken wings are out for the same reason. Lamb necks are ok but I still worry about one of them trying to eat it whole. Big beef bones are not mush use as they are mainly teeth breakers and not a lot of meat on them. Lamb briskets are also a bit of a worry as they can swallow some of those bones in one piece too. My old dog had surgery last month to remove bone from her bowels and that was very costly and painful for her at 12 years old. It looked like a piece of vertebrae from lambs neck but hard to tell as she also eats whole rabbits and possums. So until I can find something that is good, mine are primarily dry food with either roll for training treats or budget mince that has arteries and all in it for other alternative meals

If you buy supercoat tins, buy the kangaroo casserole as it has my kelpie on the label and it would look good for supercoat if it sold well!!!!!!!

The Kelpies I have had over the years are generally noisy when excited when I am throwing the ball or things with all the dogs. That excited piercing sound you say she makes when chasing I think it common in any breed. Mine do it when chasing rabbits or possums etc. Our friends has terrier that do it when chasing each other or rabbits and things as well. I think is a different excited thing not just a regular happy excited dog sound. Not sure its something you could stop as such as its a chase response. The way to control it is to not let her chase the other dogs.

I feed a dry diet 95% of the time. I feed 3 dogs Advance and am trialling 4 dogs on Supercoat Adult at present. When one of mine had surgery last month she had to only eat tinned food for a few weeks after having a bone and some bowel removed so I used Optimum wet food and then changed to Supercoat tinned for her to then blend in to the dry mix. To be honest I think sometimes people over analyse what they feed their dogs. I understand breeding, showing and performance dogs need a good balance diet that supplies what they need for various things, BUT for a pet dog, really there are so many options to feed the dog and it will really be fine whatever the owner choses. I figure there are so many dangers in dogs lives, and dog food is probably low on the scale of risk. Feed what ever suits you and what your dog likes. It can always be changed later if its not working. I swapped to the supercoat Kangaroo casserole only because it has a picture of my dog on the label, otherwise any of the tinned food (other than PAL, Chum) were ok by me to feed her.

Does she also jump over see through fencing. I have a dog that used to jump 6-7 ft paling fences but will not attempt to jump anything see through such as pool fencing and the rural type fencing with mesh. Just a thought as without there being something solid to get a grip to help her pull herself up, she may very well be fine in a yard like an acreage area that has rural fencing. I think as long as it does not have a solid top rail, you will prob find she won't won't jump out.

I think its a fair call dennyhound. Lets face it, like you said, they were bred as a working dog, so therefore the work ability was a priority in breeding the dogs. Looks never came into it. In NSW 3 sheep trials, there is a guy that is consistantly in finals with "station bred" dogs. Some are a mix of Kelpie and Border Collie and others are station kelpies. There is plenty of great unregistered working bred kelpies out there that help run the stock of the country and would never even get a look in to meet a standard for the breed. The thing that people forget is that they see a good kelpie doing well and say I want to get a kelpie cause look how good they are. They don't realise that there is so many variables in the working breed as they are bred to be a multipurpose dog. They may have great drive to work and be with someone, but sport people want a dog that is driven to "play" (tug, fetch etc) and forget just because they have good work drive and good instincts, they are often good at their job because its in their blood, and no amount of play or games will make them into what the person thinks it should have been. You just have to find the right dog no matter what the breed. I have working line Kelpies and Borders and out of 7 dogs, 2 (Borders) will tug and fetch and play rough and have drive able to be channeled into a COMPETITIVE sports dog and still be an awesome sheepdog, 1 (Border) has enough goof in her to be able to develop her play into tug and channel it but again is an awesome sheepdog, 2 (Borders) have awesome WORK drive, are loyal but have MINIMAL play/interactive drive but will work all day for a pat and be told they are good. Then I have 2 Kelpies, 1 is good at something if she feels like it or FOOD in involved, but if you wanted play to be her rewards, give up now and the other (station bred) used to be a good agility dog and loved it because it was thrilling, used to be able to work, not stylish but effective (bit noisy). She is old now and was doing what I do now, when she was young she would probably be very handy. Will tug, Loves food and is really good but tough. She has had a very tough hand to bring her up because of her possessive/protective nature. So when looking for a Kelpie, you need to look for individual characteristics that make the good dog, not the stud, or the line etc, it is so varied.

I kept having bad dreams about one of my dogs. 1 time she was hit by a car. Another time she was stolen. Then she was eaten by a crocodile (in the drain at work LOL) It started to freak me out a little cause I would wake up like it was real. Then in real life she got shot one morning early........ she lived after some surgery (although mentally scarred) and since then I have not had any more bad dreams about her.

3 of mine sleep in a stable. 2 others in a garden shed 2 others somewhere outside. They have kennels, carport, dog beds on verandah, front door mat or front lawn to choose from. We are on acres so they just go sleep where they want.

Try this. Never done it before so have no idea what I am doing www.flickr.com/photos/72260875@N07/sets/

Thanks Jesomil. Hope to catch up with you when you come up.

I will work out how to post some pics and put them on. When I got my tub back changed to a tray back, I got the 6ft one. They usually put a 5ft on so just make sure you specify. If you ever sell your car, just keep your tray to change on to the next one. I used to have a ute with a canopy but as I am short, it is really hard to access things.

maybe permoxin rinse them the day before you leave rather than the capstar if its safe to use if they have advantix on.

I have a dual cab D22 Navara. I had the tub back changed to a 6ft alloy tray. On the back I have 3 large cages set up that can be mounted either at the head board or I can also bolt them to the tray across the back so that the dogs can still be let in and out even though the rest of the tray is used for taking all my gear. It is great as my dogs are often wet, muddy and roll in things that I don't want to smell and I can still just put them in cages and it doesn't bother me. I can hose the cages out later (and the dogs) and bedding etc and it is fine. As I need to be able to use my ute at any time for picking up a bit of hay and stuff, I didn't want the whole back taken up by cages. My cages are big enough I can fit 2 Border Collies in each cage. The cage has a zip up cover on it that covers the back, roof and sides and if wet or cold, the front flap comes down and I can zip it up. The sides also have a flap that can be rolled up and then has fly mesh to cover it. In summer, I often take the waterproof cover off and have a shadecloth cover on under it so that air gets through and is mainly just for shade. It so far works for me. I currently have them mounted at rear of tray. I can still put my bike, camping gear, storage boxes and all in between headboard and cages and it is really good. If I am going somewhere that I don't need to take much gear but more dogs, I attach some smaller single cages to fit more dogs on. How many dogs to you usually take and how much storage room to you need as well for gear?

I am really going to reply here soon but need to find more time. I prefer Kelpies. I love them, however I do sheepdog trials and now own 5 Border Collies and 2 kelpies. Both kelpies have been retired/sacked from competition events for traits that haven't suited my desires. My border collies would happily do any sport I chose, give it their best and want more. One day I will get another Kelpie but I really find they need different handling,training and control measures that what most people think and are prepared to do. Having said this, set those rules up from day 1 and you will have an awesome dog. Gotta go for now.

Kavik, where are you looking to get your nest Kelpie from?

There is also a difference between interest and instinct and ability. Some WKC and Working Border Collie lines have different rates of "switching on". Some lines are early starters and others may not even look even interested until 18months-2 years. They can then turn out to be better, or a waste of time waiting for that long. There is also a lot of difference between what is required of an ANKC herding test and a full day work on a farm, mustering, drafting, yarding and then putting all the stock back again.

Well I think to say they have had ALL their working instinct out is a bit over the top.................... But personally if I, or anyone I knew was looking for a dog to work stock on property, I would not be looking at ANKC dogs. There is only very few true WKC Kelpie studs that have the dual registrations to be able to register them with ANKC.