dogdude

How, and what can we do to improve our clubs? I think running the higher classes at an earlier time would showcase the club to newbies, and to show what can be acheived, and also what to strive for. Why is it that the higher classes are usually ran at a later time? Besides the obvious that we dont have enough good volunteer instructors around, what else could be improved at your club?

Hi Bel What breed is your dog? What do you think was holding you back from a pass previously? If he has done most of the work already, then why not train him through to UD before you start to trial him? Its pretty dam depressing and money consuming when you continually enter trials and fail. He will have more maturity on his side now, but IMO you need to be very patient if you want a successful trialling dog. Not much point travelling around half the state on a wing and a prayer.

Yeah The smaller and larger breeds do seem to need some sought of rule variations, but I think the medium breed owners would also see this as unfair. The only answer maybe a class system? :D

Hi JulesP The reason for chat being banned in the ring is because reinforcment commands can be taught using any word. This would be classed as a double command. Shoey It would be great if most of the dogs at trialling level did not need a collar. Looking at a recent trial 2 weeks ago, I can see why they do need them :D

Poodle fan I can now fully see your point. There is no reason why a dog that is supposed to be at trialling level should need one at all. I personally walk my dog in a flat collar. :D I also think that it would be great to do say small dog group stays and large dog ones. What other problems do you have with small breeds?

Poodlefan I suppose there is always going to be someone that stretch the rules, like some positive trainers leaving food or scent in the pocket ! :D WMR I think only people that dont know what they are doing would use the ear ploy. The ear pinch should be used in the teaching of the FR, not a general correction method. No wonder the dog you are talking about is hand shy during the giving up of the dumbell!

Hi Poodlefan Yeah, I would love to be given a score card with comments attached. The only trouble I could see with that maybe is a differece of opinion and possibly arguments? The UD guys get put through first because of the scent exercises. They dont want other dogs fouling the ring or putting a miriad of scent all over the ring. I agree though, they are at a higher level. The point made regarding check chains is a sticky one. I think that the judges would prefer a good level of control available if needed, ecspecially for the lower classes, but also, you get penalised if you make a correction anyway. There is no advantage above CCD anyway because they are off lead. Maybe they should think about adding an exersise like bringing in the washing from the line? My dog is an expert :D

For a long time now I have thought about the irrelevance of some of the exersises used in obedience trialling. Some of them like the broad jump, directed jumping and possibly retrieve dont seem to me to be very usefull exercises to learn in a modern society. Perhaps you disagree? A trial is supposed to be a showcase for a dog that fits into society What would you add if you were designing a trial with modern society in mind? Seek car keys? :D Would you keep them the same?

Hi W.S Point taken, just wouldnt like to see people get this confused with the ear pinch. :D

comment now irrelevant

Hi T.N There are a couple of simple things that you need to teach a show dog, but its mostly about socialisation. What you should be thinking about is preparing him for life after the show ring. If you train for formal obedience, you will cover all bases, including a future obedience trial prospect. Most importantly, you will have a dog that fits into society. Some things you need to teach a dog for conformation shows is handling genitals (if male) and getting the dog to look forward while gating. Obedience is different as the dog should ideally look at the handler for cues as to what we want.

Yeah Shoey, I recently posted pics of Oscar in the Stafford photo thread in photo forum.

Thats a shame WMR. Its got some great precision heelwork, trialling and doodling tips. Im sure you remember most of whats in it anyway. I was given a copy years ago for a present and it is probably my most treasured. I priced a copy recently through Angus and Robertson for a friend and it was about $55. Forgot to add shoey that I have a staffy as well that uses my midriff area to focus on.(maybe because he cant see anything else :D ) Swinging your left hand naturally should'nt change his focus. When your hand signal begins, your body's angle opens for the hand signal to be seen. Question about knowing if dog is with you while off lead is easy, let someone else do all the police work, you just concentrate on what your supposed to be doing!

Hi Shoey One of the hardest things when moving off lead is to have full faith in your dog. Lagging on the turns is more often than not caused by bad footwork on the turns. The dog needs to maintain a smooth balance and rythm through the turns to remain in correct heel position. A good way to enforce rythm is by teaching the dog the figue 8 properly (again Bauman book). If you exaggerate the change of pace needed for the turns it helps general heelwork out of site. ie, exaggerate right bending turns with a faster pace and left bending turns with slower than normal. When the dog has this in his mindset you can go back to normal pace and you will find him right there with you. It teaches the dog to just be aware that a change of pace is required to remain in correct position.

Hi Shoey Your dog looks to be working nicely! Nice focus! :D Just a couple of tips: To remain in a straight line, dont look at the dog. Look straight ahead and line up landmarks on the ground in front of you and into the horizon or background. Also, heeling looks alot more natural and flowing if you are swinging your left hand in a natural fashion. If you are not going to trial then dont worry about it. I am always reminding myself to do this. WRM has mentioned footwork and I think she also mentioned (if I am not mistaken?)she had a copy of Diane Baumans book which has great footwork tips in it. This is practiced best with an imaginary dog! Its easy to pick from behind a pc We will see if I practice what I preach in the new year after I post some footage of oscar and I doing some heel work. I will need all the nit picking I can get as I have not trialled for a few years and plan to enter early next year.

From what I have read about other peoples experiences with working with prey drive, they say that that method gets reliable results. Basically, they work on getting a prey item as the dogs greatest distraction and building the dogs drive so it will do almost anything to satisfy its frenzy. They build it to a point where it is valued by the dog more than anything else. I dont know alot about it but K9 is the expert. I get the impression though that not all breeds or individuals are responsive to this method. Maybe he can clear things up? I am very interested in finding out about the level of success across individual dogs. Let me just say, I use a combo of both positive and negative. Positive to teach and aversives to proof, and where necessary, back up the negative with a positive. I personally believe from my own experiences to date, that you have to use aversives to proof a dog properly under varying distraction to get good reliability. Mind you, I dont use any forcefull form while proofing initially, first show them gently, and only when the dog has made a clear choice to ignore the command I will add a pop on a check etc. When you test a dog by proofing I think it is very important to make sure that the dog is not confused before using force. You are in effect trying to trick him into making a mistake and force would be unfair.

Hi MrsD The first case senario during a trial when a dog makes a mistake then I dont think that it really matters what you do because you cant change it into a training session. If this was a problem in training then that is a different matter. I would do similar to Cosmolo, exaggerate the dogs mistake and quickly heel off in the direction that most disadvantages the dog, praising him when he's there. I do "one stride block exercises" as well. Basically heeling off with one stride, then stop etc in a square formation. I find this a good training exercise to get the dog used to making quick adjustments. Heeling patterns with a "quick step" to the right in a straight line is also good. Second case, I think sounds more like a motivational problem. For the boring repetitive exercises like recall and heelwork, I still use food as a motivator, even at trial level. He just doesnt know when, or at what interval, he will get it. (not on me during a trial of course). During the dogs learning phase, did you use food for a reward and a target? If you used it as a target in the right spot, I cant work out why he would sit too far from you. There must be some reason?

WMR: I have never heard of this method, sounds good and makes perfect sense! Wouldnt like to be training a hungry rotti though!

Another related topic to the thread is how you get your dog acheive straight sitting both in heel and fronts. One way I teach recalls is by placing two bricks about half a metre in front of me, spaced just wide enough for the dogs behind. I then progress to sticking out my knee (whichever one is required to guide the dogs rear to a straight sit). I use food as the central target held between my two pointer fingers at groin level to draw the dog close around the adjusting knee. I try and antisipate a crooked sit rather that issue an adjustment command or by stepping back further (which I dont think teaches them much). Thoughts?

What are your thoughts and what do you practice in your training? I prefer to show the dog correct position without alternative words.

Hi MrsD Me either! My comments are based on obedience as well. I would love to watch a retreiving trial and learn it but I doubt my Bull Terrier or Staffy would be very interested!

Hi MrsD Yeah, in the learning stage of most new exercises I will give a double command while "showing" the dog what I want, but I dont invent another adjustment command, just gently guide the dog physically into the correct position using lots of praise. I cant see merrit in continually verbally correcting or warning during a retreiving trial as in that thread. To me its training the dog to not bother remembering.

I think the guy getting flamed in the US thread has a valid point, If the dog knows fetch, it should already know that hold is a component. The others seem to be arguing that "hold"should be used to correct or warn a dog that is mouthing, or looking like it is about to drop the retreive article/bird? Does'nt make sense to me.

Hi Erny Im having a little difficulty in understanding your view on the FR and obedience. Do you trial? The difference between obedience and a sport is obviously the trial. I find it hard to think it is not a sport when they hand out prizes for the various categorys etc. The points system is still the benchmark criteria for a title, but at some stage it did become a sport. As previously stated, I for one wouldnt teach FR to a non trialling dog. If trialling was originally designed to showcase a dog that "fits into society" then why do we need to teach them retrieve in the first place? Same could be said of countless other useless exercises incorporated into a trial. Personally, I would like to see a review on the exercises with more relevance to modern society. This is probably for a different thread. (dont quote me too quickly, I would have to think about it)

Yeahh its hot!! But WHERES EVERYONES MANNERS TODAY ??????? !!!!!!!!!