dogdude

Having a very soft dog for my first dog taught me alot. After paying for my mistakes the hard and time consuming way the first time has helped me no end with training my following dogs.

You should never rely on knowledge gained form one source. Listen to everyone and use what you consider that makes sense.

If you are looking for odball answers, eat some yourself in front of the dog when its hungry and let it know how good it tastes

Bridgie_Cat I dont think there would be any close places that you could re-create the Mount Trial LOL, all those horses and cattle running around. I actually did end up proofing my dog though because of that! Trained in a horse paddock for weeks. Ginny had GSD's and was a trialling friend of Marlene's that lives in the Mount. She is American. She is obviously no longer a member. (Very loud lol, you would have noticed her) Marlene was my first training mentor when she lived in Portland.

Just be aware of the fact that individual instructor knowledge will vary, some will be against using food, because they are not all experts at using it. You will have to use it discreetly too, so not to distract the other dogs in the class. The instructors are all there voluntarily, so you need to keep that in the back of your mind. If you plan on starting your basic training using food, then I would do as much reading on the subject as possible because it is a powerfull tool that can create more problems than it fixes if not used correctly. Not all instructors have the same level of knowledge, ecspecially if they hav'nt used it to fully train a dog before. Also remember that any training aid is only as harsh as the person holding the leash.

Hi Jill I dont know of any clubs in in Northern Melbourne that dont! Most will let you use what you are comfortable with. I have heard good reports about Northern. Warringal near Latrobe Uni as well. I went to Warringal the other week and saw some handlers using food. You will find most clubs will wont stipulate one style of training because it would reduce their member base.

Hi bridgie_cat I can see where your coming from with distance between trials down there (lived in Portland 10 years) but you also need to consider that many bad habits can also be created when they are not ready and you enter frequently on a wing and a prayer, because you can't correct, or reward good behavior etc. The Mount trial is one of the worst to enter distraction wise (yeah, bad experience) so you just need to be aware of that. (during our turn in the ring, a horse broke loose and was doing zoomies around our ring) You do have a number of seasoned triallers at your club that could help you proof your dog in preperation (start training in a horse paddock ) I take it Marlene and Ginny are still members?

Hi FeralPup: Dont forget Mnt Gambier trial either My first ever trial was at your home club (Warrnambool) many years ago during the Glenelg games. We placed first in encouragement then followed up by winning best in trial at out home club (Portland). Never trialled at Ballarat but we then took out novice at Geelong, then the same at Broadmeadows to gain our title that year. Geelong was a good trial but Broadmeadows had ankle deep mud accross the whole ground.

Hi FeralPup There is always the Portland trial to prepare him for, I think about November from memory. That would give you enough time to prepare him for Novice if you wanted to. Its a double header too. I am hoping to enter that trial if everything goes to plan. They have a nice flat training ground down there.

Basically what I tell students is, go along to a trial, watch the top dogs in the higher classes and think about each exercise while training, picture the perfect recall, heel pattern etc and work towards that picture. Start to ask all the right questions off as many people as possible on how to achieve each little step on getting there. Once you are about 90% there, you are more than likely going to have a winner. Many people tend to think that if their dog is sloppy at certain things that its a dog peronality problem. Most are caused by lazy handlers. Also going along to mock trials will give you personally heaps of confidence in your own movements for a real trail, which in turn will provide even more positive vibes for your dog. When you are in trial training, always get someone else to watch your personal movements, or video yourself. I have all the confidence in the world but still shudder to see some of my bad habits in training. Be brave and post your training up on DOL, you will get plenty of constructive criticism here.

I think it is a personal thing. An experienced trialler wont usually bother enterering CCD. Most will already know what is expected and enter their dog when it is good and ready. The opposite usually is the case for newbys because they have no feel for the competition at that stage. They are also champing at the bit to have a go and get involved. The problem lies back with the clubs that dont have enough experienced instructors. The ones that are there love to see as many fellow triallers as possible and they sometimes push the students into entering CCD too early. Melbourne has a great set up to see where your dog is at by visiting KCC Park on Tuesday nights. They have qualified judges that put you through your paces and give you tips and honest opinion. It costs $5. They set up the rings just like a proper trial. It can also be used by newbys to have a look at other competitors (level of competition). As I have said before, alot depends on how competitive you want to be. If that is important to you, there is nothing wrong with starting to trial after all your dogs training is completed, including UD.

We are even having trouble with keeping up with obedience students down here at the moment. There seems to be more and more clubs popping up that are not affiliated with the VCA. Many have over 300 members and a handfull of instructors. Its a shame because with the huge class sizes now, the personal help is getting less and less. Standards are starting to fall by the wayside. I think that is what half of Sydneys obedience scene's problem is.

Wasn't just talking about dogs! ;) Agree we need to pull our socks up with the agility. Its extremly popular down here but we seem to lack serious agility clubs and people to teach it. The ones that do exist have huge waiting lists. ;)

Hi Poodlefan We all know NSW has always been a little behind the Victoria in most areas. ;) Like I said, the dog is only a product of the handler. ;)

Hi Janba I would not like to enter the ring with a dog that thinks that there is a difference between the ring and the outside world. Far too often, the outside world and all of its distractions enter the ring. Heeling was never designed to take your dog for a walk in the park, but a tool to be used when necessary, just like every other trial exercise. Some of them may be irrelevant in todays society, but that is another argument. I cant imagine that there would be too many reliable high level trialling dogs that were not reliable in public. A dogs mindset is moulded by its handler, if the handler has created a dog that acts that way, they only have themselves to blame. If the dog is taught that it is more than just well rehearsed "tricks" that are required, they won't have a problem.

Yeah, I can think of a "few". I can also think of the majority who are obedient dogs both in and out of the ring. To generalise and state that there is difference bewilders me?

Janba: Sounds like you hang out with some fantastic trainer/handlers!!

MrsD Everyone enters dog sports for different reasons. What is the reason to do obedience in the first place......?? To acheive a dog that is behaved in public at a reliable level. Perhaps you might think of something really intelligent to add to the thread ?

Please dont think that I reckon every Tom,Dick & Harry should buy a pup and start training immediately, just that I think an experienced handler should have the ability to recognise a stressed out pup. I find MrsD's reference to a very old competition dog very interesting. I never really thought what I might do if I ever trained an OC after the fact, I think I would just retire it. I think EddyAnne may have done the same, what more is there to make it a challenge?

Poodlefan: His website refered to OC (the real deal) ie) 5 qualifying scores over 185 and a class win) . He stated that if there was not an age limit for trial entry, then at least one of his dogs would have done it even sooner. He uses food drive, and does not train with a lead or chain. I only noticed a post around a month ago of his in the BSL thread.

Hi Poodlefan EddyAnne is still a semi active member of DOL, although I have never spotted him in the training thread for some reason. They live in Sale, Victoria. He did have a website which contained a lot of info about training from an early age (I think from about 10 weeks old. It was a very interesting website with many good hints. When I recently searched for it , it was no longer on the net. I must contact him and find out if it is still available to view. They are very well known in Victorian obedience circles.

Hi Sne My advice is to look at making your obedience training more interesting to your dog, rather than looking for more to stimulate him at this stage. You still need a reliable level of control while in aglilty, and having full control of him in an emergency situation is more important than running an agility course IMO. The problem with dog school is that the classes do get "boring" for the dog. The classes run way too long, and if you have a second rate instructor then you will be doing heeling drills for half the class. A good instructor will be talking and explaining things for at least half of the class, while your dog is at ease. This should be the case at all levels. If you view the obedience in a negative light in any way, your dog will soon pick up on it and follow suite. Try breaking your training down into short, sharp exercises that have a planned purpose. Work toward making every exercise a thing that your dog likes even better than the first. I have not yet been to a dog school that makes that their aim, but many top trainers do.

Hi Poodlefan: I am refering to EddyAnne's Cavaliers. Some of them obtained the title of Obedience Champion before they were 18 months old. Had their UD titles shortly after turning 12 months. I have heard of others. I guess my point is that if the pup seems happy to do the work, and enjoys it, then surely it cant be doing any harm.

Personally, I think that training a young dog will not put it in any danger of "burning out", unless your training methods are sub standard. There are many dogs that obtain their UD titles at around 1 year of age or shortly after. If the dog is not working happily, the training methods are obviously not working. True, alot of dogs seem to "click" at around 2-3 years of age in the trial ring, but I think that its not only an "age thing", but a confidence issue, not necessarily linked to maturity. Most handlers dont start training their dogs until around 6-12 months of age. It then takes them time to learn how to train the dog, then more time to get interested in trialling. By the time they, and their dogs get confident in what they have been taught , they are in the 2-4 age bracket. Many have not been socialised from a young age, and of course that slows down the level of focus needed too.

If all of the "knowledgeable people" realised that CTD was mearly expressing her personal thoughts out loud, (and not asking for your opinions), then I might consider you "knowledgable"! Training is a personal thing, it is her dog! I can't believe how many rude people are suddenly appearing in the training forum! If it bothers you so much to read what others think about training their dogs, why read forum posts in the first place?