dogdude

Its complicated! I work weekends, (start after lunch time) so ATM, I am training one of the lower classes (class 2), where they only do onlead stays. Classes 3 and 4 are on when I have to leave, so atm I am just getting in a quick sit stay before class starts, which is under very high distraction, but still different to formal group stays, even know in theory they are less distraction compared to roaming off lead dogs running all around him!

Hi everyone, Yeah Shoey, not much happens in the dog world up here. There are no informal training "get togethers up here Jules, now that would really confuse Oscar He would'nt know which side to break his stay on ;) Although the main problem yesterday seemed to be laziness by dropping during the sit stay because of the sunshine (or brainfade). He being an only dog, coupled with his sexual maturity (and entire) is another problem I think. I was thinking to actually give him a pop on the checkchain next time, but I dont think it would do much good. I'm hoping for a change when he loses his manhood. Its quite frustrating as breaking stays are usually easy to fix. The laziness only seems to happen during group stays, but not under any other level of distraction. ;) Glad to here your son is ok WMR! No need to appologise, family first.

I also agree with what most have said about club time. The way I combat the problem now, is to do a short, intense training session while everyone is standing around gas bagging, waiting for class to start. Its a great time to proof with dogs running around doing zoomies etc, then, I tether him with a blanket to sit on while I instruct class. He gets all the socialising and mental stimulation from the passing people while i'm in class. He just sits and watches the other dogs that are being trained.

Hi Emmala Just like to highlight that heel is used as a tool to gain 100% undivided attention from your dog, when it is required on a walk. Dont confuse heeling with general walking. You need to gain that "on/off switch", so that the dog is free to think about whatever he wants to, in order to enjoy his walk. The dog will sub conciously walk without pulling the lead once heel is learnt. An example of when to use heel is say, when you are out walking, and you can see an approaching dog being walked towards you. The dog will respond to you like you are the only other thing in existence if it is correctly taught, and will totally ignore the unwanted distraction. Dont confuse the dog by using the command for a lesurely walk. Particularly while trying to teach it. You will never teach the dog to heel properly if you do this. Foot work is an important component of heeling, but to a much lesser extent compared to focus. I believe that the dog dos'nt realy respond to the foot that you move of on, rather your body's posture as a whole, when you do change feet. (does that make sense?) Dogs dont generally focus on your feet, if they did, they would miss your hand signals. Footwork is more important for trialling purposes, in order for the dog to remain in balance during the heeling exercise. It takes a dog quite some time to remain balanced while keeping in the ideal heel position, especially if he is focusing higher than waist height. Good luck! :rolleyes:

WMR: 11 sounds ok for me. What about everyone else?

Hi Shoey Not sure about JulesP, we talked about meeting at Croydon but I didnt hear back from her. The more distractions for Oscar the better. Anybody else thinking of entering the Berwick trial?

Sounds like a plan WMR If Monday suits, name a time. The more fidgety the better. RM, you may like to join us too? What is the address for the Berwick ground?

WMR Happy to meet up anywhere in Melbourne. I have the whole day without the kids and work. I really need to work on group stays with other dogs. I dont get the opportunity to do them at club anymore. I need some good proofing because I think I will enter him in the Berwick trial in May.

I intend to do some training on Monday if anyone is interested. (weather permitting)

I use corrective and persuasive methods where I see necessary. That includes the forced retreive, which just happens to be my dogs favorite exercise. Just because a dog has been trained using the FR, doesn't mean he is being bullied every time he performs it. The dog is still encouraged with positives for making the right choice, and quickly learns to love it. Dogs that work great in the ring but not outside it are just pattern trained, it is not the dogs personality you are seeing when that happens, ......its the trainers! I think that if you train a dog to see obedience as a game, they will treat every command that you give them as a game. There should be no difference IMO. Of course a dog should still be pumped with excitement to do well in the ring, which of course is not really possible without the positive reinforcement or drive aspect. Mind you, the FR is the only exercise where I would use aversive methods to actually teach an exercise, and the other times I will use it for correcting unacceptable bad behavior (but not "wrong choice") in some circumstances. I am intensely interested in all forms of training, and atm into learning the nitty gritty of the techniques of some of the "motivational masters".

Generally speaking, between 2 and 5 with a dog that started training early. I think most small to medium sized dogs are full physically developed by 2.5 to 3.5. Most dogs that I have trained seem to start to really click mentally around 2 years of age obedience wise. I like to debut them in a trial around that time.

Best of luck IASH, WA and FP I'm sure they will go great ;) Just remember to relax and have faith in your dogs. (dont look down!)

While doing trial run throughs at KCC the other week, my dog lost his focus during the retreive exercise as a poodle walked past very close to the ring rope. Immdediately the judge started making all sorts of excuses for him, so, I did'nt need too I knew it was lazy proofing on my part. I've heard them all, no really funny ones come to mind. In saying that, I train my dog in the rain at every opportunity, and have always had solid working dogs in the rain, but, this mutt I have at the moment is a total wuss if his toes get wet! No amount of proofing seems to help. Even if I let him roam off lead to do his own thing and its raining, he will go and hide somewhere!

Hi Saltwood Its hard to know whats going on without seeing it first hand, but the problems described are usually a result of rewarding at either the wrong time, or from the wrong place. Are you using the toy to lure the dogs head up for the sit? Sitting is all about raising the head to sit, and extending it to move off into heel, so to move off, extend the lure in your left hand above and out in front of the dogs head, and pull it back and upward when you stop. The dog should follow it and rock back into a sit if you are going well. Stop the dog crouching by looping your lead in a lassoo around the dogs back half, while the clip is still attached to the collar (like he is a handbag). Always be very gentle when physically showing the dog how to stand. They dont like hands lifting the belly and it can make the problem much worse.

Great work leopuppy04 :cool

Firstly make sure the dog is very hungry, and use a high value food like cabana or cheese (most dogs). You will have to experiment and find out. Some dogs have been known to value grapes over other more traditional treats. It is better if you use slightly moist types that they do not have to chew too long while training, (as opposed to smacko's etc) otherwise you you get held up while he is chewing, and the dog gets too much time to forget what he has been rewarded for.

I would love to come, but just got a promotion at work, and work afternoon shift on weekends. If it ends up in the morning, I will come. Dont pick a footy ground as it all starts soon. Hmmm.....Box Hill.....only 40 mins away Living in the northern suburbs is like living in a dog obedience desert! Sucks being the minority!!)

Hi Shoey Find yourself a mentor with similar ideas to your own, who is very successfull. Dont use methods your not sure about. Confidence is everything in dog training. Have you ever noticed at club when an instructor takes control of a newby as an example, and the dog is instantly transfrormed? Train less at dog clubs, and more with your mentors privately.

I tried an experiment of my own last night. Tried to teach my wife how to drive a manual. Conclusion: Cant teach SOME old dogs new tricks!

Forget a spray bottle, its a bull breed. It will be useless on most occasions. Build a run for the dog. Google K9Force. Steve Courtney is in Sydney and has a very good reputation.

The advantages that I see in the Wait/stay command are these: If I come to a halt, and intend on moving off again at fast pace, I do not want the dog in 2 minds while working out what I want. I want the dog to be anticipating a forward movement, as opposed to a "heads up" Stay command, so that he remains in good heel position. When I give the "stay command", I expect the dogs mind to relax a little, without full focus, but a full understanding of the exercise. The reason for that line of thought?, the out of site stay. You can do the opposite by changing the tone and using "wait", to cue the dog into full focus (as required in the recall).

Top Stuff! Warmest congratulations! Have you done very much retreive work with him yet?

The brain is too complex to generalise. Look at the vast different learning capacity of humans! Breed differences have also got to be considered. Bull breeds were not bred for there capacity to work closely with there human owners (like working breeds), so are not all that interested in changing their blueprinting when it suits us (obedience training). They are naturally going to take longer reps to get there, and you will have to find what really makes them tick to do it.

Hi Erny If you break a learned pattern, ie, proofing, it is no longer a pattern. Dogs are certainly capable of independant troubleshooting (thinking outside a pattern) But I suppose that because of the lack of speech, everything has to be learned from previous experience Not sure if i'm making sense lol.

I sometimes wonder if saying that dogs learn in patterns/sequences is that simple. I have noticed that in the proofing stages, when you break the pattern, dogs often display understanding, sometimes not. I think their brains are more complex than that.