dogdude

The golden rules of tug as far as I am concerned are never move the tug towards the dog, don't make it easy to catch, don't reward a slack effort to catch it, don't hide the tug after you have finished (teach the dog self control to let it go on command, as an opportunity to restart the game), make the main aim of the game the catching part, a few seconds of actual tugging is plenty.

This is the very reason I moved to sending to a remote target. Oscar was then working for the food bag outside the ring. I had to do a bit of work on endurance too.

Hi dyzney I have found it hard to spend alot of time with Oscar, simply because of the difference in drive levels compared to my other dog. I really owe it to him, because he did get his Novice title in 3 goes, each with a H.I.T score. He had 2 attempts at Open so far, scoring highly up until the distance control, where he NQed for not going down. He had all of last year off, while I was training the pup, so next year will be his.

This is the way I have trained my other dog Oscar, and I am about to make changes to it again. I don't like the fact that he needs to be swtched on by showing the reward. I feel I need to strengthen drive further, and get it to a stage where I dont have to show him that I have it in my posession, and is totally swiched on by command only. I feel that you can only achieve this with a very driven dog.

Just when the camera cut out, I answered the judge without looking sideways, and it worked. For some reason, the camera was cutting out every minute or so, and the person I had asked to film me didn't know the camera. It must have been on the wrong setting or something. Most of the heelwork was missed. For some reason we actually lost 3 points for that recall. Can't see anything obvious, and she left the mark bang on command. I was a bit nervy after being away for a long time. She ended up with a 192. After all that messing about with the COP, she ended up scoring full points for it. The heeling was ok, although she was a little too reved up, and was ocasionally jumping into position, instead of using her backend smoothly. She also sat on a 45 degree angle to me on one occasion, which has not been a feature in her training before. The next trial (next weekend at Croydon) doesn't give me much time to work on the COP problem, but I will definately not look to the judge when I am asked about being ready.

Well, previous to now, I have triallied a low to medium drive dog, and I have always found that by sparking him up with a bit of cooked steak and about 20 seconds of static turn work just before we enter the ring, helped with short term motivation. At Brydees first trial the other night, I couldn't stop myself from doing the same using her drive toy, but I know I didn't really need it at all, as we have already successfully put in the endurance work in training, without using prior kickstarting methods. Oscar always prefered to see the colour of your money, before he really switched on. Its something that I really want to work on over the break.

Not sure what is mean't by this? What does Sue think the dog should have on its mind for motivation?

Just want to highlight a training mistake of mine that almost cost me dearly in the trial this week, which also relates to the current topic of reinforces and, in my case cues, causing problems. I train directional cues from my head turns. I look left or right, and the dog preparing herself to move in the direction I look to. When I was setting her up for the Change Of Position, as soon as I looked left towards the judge while being asked "are you ready", Brydee read the head turn as a cue for a left turn, and began to move back, for a left turn. She also became a bit confused and flustered, while I was trying to reposition her. She is the first dog I have trained to cue from a head turn, so it was a valuable lesson for me. Lucky for me the exercise hadn't actually started yet, and she still ended up with a respectable score. Havn't trialled for well over a year, so I was a little rusty too. Bad footage from crap camera sorry! ETA: You will also notice that after being released from the recall, she went looking for her reinforcer (tuggie). Have to do some work on that one too. Brydee at FOO Trial (Novice)

While Oscar is only interested if tastes and smells really good, Brydee will get worked up over a matchstick while in drive. While she does react more strongly with certain objects, she still gets very worked up over very little, as long as the concept of the game is still the same. Sometimes I use these "Claytons" objects to actually build drive.

Missed this post Tiggy! Great idea! Its one of those "Know I should,but never do" thingys. I do however plan exactly what I want to train for before we start training.

This to me is breathtaking work in drive. There is no OTT here. I really love the slow pace work.

Same. To break each exercise up into little peices, you need many short training sessions. One night I might just work on turns, ....the next I will just work on recall and retrieve speed, and other nights I will just pick one part of an exercise that is her weakest.etc.

I"m not an expert in drive training by any means, but I will attempt to answer. (I had a slightly messy OT dog in the trial last night like you describe, but knew it was a proofing issue, and not a fault in the method.) (192) The aim of the game is not to get an over the top, messy performance, and if your dog fully understands the rules of the "out", and in control of himself, then there should be no more issue than any other training methods. Like food usage, you can alter the levels of drive building etc in your training, to get a level that you can work with. Some of Melbournes most successful trialling dogs at the top levels have been trained using the method, so its achievable. Was speaking to a number of people at the trial last night that have now trained their dogs using it, some having dogs that have featured in past "Obedience Dog of the Year" comps. I guess you only have to look at the Schutz footage of guys like Balabanov, who peddle their methods via results in trials.

I thought you guys must have used a method something like this, as I saw Shoemonster use a different delivery method at FOO last year with her Eddy. I have never seen such strong food drive in a dog. I had one small peice of cabana in my pocket, and he started ripping off my pocket to get at it lol! I would sew spare pockets on my pants if I could get the same results out of Oscar! Thats one of my goals over the break.

Sorry, got home quite late after the trial last night, no time to elaborate. I guess everybodys holy grail is to work out what motivates their dog the most effectively, and every dog is different. If prey drive is strong in your dog, then you need to nurture it from the youngest age possible, and expand on it. Most drives can be enhanced by not making it easy to satisfy, using a little frustration, but in a carefully balanced way. If you teach your dog manners at dinner time, using the dogs self control (like waiting for the eat command), then the dog learns to lower its drive in order to get it. Then we turn around and ask for the opposite in a training situation. If the food was made a little harder to get, the dog would put more value on it, like in TOT. I guess you could also try adding a little prey drive into the equasion, like the two food game etc. With my prey drive training, I also only release when the dog is showing maximum effort (displaying high drive), which also helps with maintaining the drive. I also do specific drive building with a long lead, harness and tuggie, secured to a bike tube or springy fence. Not saying you should go out and use this specific method, but you can use you imagination to design something that would suit you own dog. I often see people use tuggies, as just that. If you make it more about the chase of the item, than the catch of the item, then you will put more value on it, because its harder to get. If you feed most dogs before training, then naturally the drive for it will be lower. Many triallers specifically train drive promotion sepperately. What do you do Ptolomy? Leopuppy? Ness,

Hi Melody I caught some of your trial. What most of us do starting off is purely train motivation and focus. Once you have those key ingredients, the rest is just fine tuning. You cant get strong focus without strong motivation, You cant get great heelwork minus either.

Why not use his daily food allowance in his training?

Have pmed you on my thoughts Ness. Have to run. Got a funeral and a trial to go to.

We may need vid footage to have a closer look? Most crabbing problems come from signtracking. There is a fair bit of info about it on your Balabanov dvd. Have you seen that segment? It often happens when you are concealing food or other rewards, and the dog doesn't have full self control regarding when it should be working compared to when drive satifaction is ok. With the method I use, the dog understands "out" and willingly accepts the command, in anticipation of another go. Her mind is reset on the required task, and she is not looking for an item or food to appear, or even a jackpot container. I often have to direct her to where I left her item, unless I pattern train her as in the change of postition.

Ness, I would have thought we all have to work on Squiffiness issues in the learning stages? I dont think any one method is foolproof, or we all would be using them. IMO "squiffiness disappears with confidence and understanding. ETA I think most good finish methods start with rear end awareness.

If their bum is on the way down too far away, yes. I would give a quick, quiet NRM and rock back onto my heels, and draw my guiding hands further away in my lap. The key is to make it flow in the same exercise, so the dog is always concious about where it should be. Most people wait a good few seconds, then take a step back adding a further recall exercise onto the first. If the dog sits slightly left or right, use your hips, shoulders, knees and hands to twitch your dog into the correct position quickly.(without touching it) Make it a game of speed if you can, as the dog begins to understand what it needs to do.

Hi Rivsky Do you use NRMS? and what type of double signal do you use? An NRM and a guidance cue is ok, but if you make it almost two exercises (like taking another step back as most people seem to do) then I think the dog doesn't learn properly. What I do for any positional adjustments is use an NRM, then encourage the dog to move towards the correct position by leaning motions, then mark/release. You need to be quick to react though, so it continues to flow on with the same exercise. Your dog should then start to correct itself after a while, both in heel position and fronts.

Balabanov uses the reward/item out in front, standing toward the dog, and holds it in both hands in a downward movement to the ground to get fast drops from a standing postition. He stands fairly close to the dog in the early learning stages. You could do this while playing your two food game. The problem with this though, is you have to teach the opposite in the Drop On Recall (dogs head should come upward to stop quicker).

Early trial check in 3.45-4.15pm Late trial check in 6.15-6.45pm. judging time 4.30 and 7.00pm Never trialled a bitch before, so I guess I will have to go through vetting.

If your dog likes to tug, then I highly recommend the Ivan Balabanov dvds (you need both). Also, the excitement shouldn't come from the dumbell itself in the retrieve IMO. It should come in anticipation of the tug. The dvds are specifically aimed at obedience competition.