dogdude

What is your training goal? Obedience trialling, or just training manners?

My Oscar does ok for himself and he is entire, although I dropped him off at the vets this morning to lose them, but not for training issues other than to register him to trial (associate register).

I tend to agree with MrsD and Anita. Head instructors are usually rotated annually anyway, and beside the fact she P#ssed you off, she may also have many secrets to share with you. I think over the years I have learnt some fantastic methods off instructors and other handlers that, personally, I cant stand! Many clubs actually have only one instructor that stands out ....................one being a good one!

Why cant you carry cabana? I just shove the chopped up pieces in my pockets! If you plan to trial I would avoid a bum bag because it will become an unwanted focal point. Be careful not to make it obvious while you retrieve a treat to reward the dog. I find it better to move on to a target bag asap. The dog can then direct their focus on what you want, rather than jumping around looking for it on you.

Are you using food? Try giving the come command as soon as he picks it up. See if he sits to a front then? He should sit in anticipation of the food. He may try to spit it out at first (which I would'nt worry about at first). You can re-enforce the hold later.

I think the equipment at Kepala Park can be used by anyone? Like PF says though, not wise if people dont have a clue.

The key is to try to train/poach the right people to instruct. You also need a flexible training method policy and educate your instuctors on how to implement them. I know many clubs that are good at saving money, but do not give their instructors any incentives like paying for further education. The more people that you can cater for, the more you will keep. Holding regular workshops and seminars with top trainers is an ideal way of keeping both members and instructors. The rest is just good marketing, but a club like this will sell itself. The number one reason why people leave clubs is that they either do not like an instructor, or dont like a method used, along with of course that its much more work than they thought. A club is only as appealing as its front line (the instructors)

Hi Issis Firstly, a cowering dog (during training) is usually a confused dog. It is not uncommon for dogs to go through learning plateau's in which they seemingly display no idea of previous exercises learnt. Just be patient if that happens, they dont usually last very long. Secondly, anyone that I have ever known in dog training carries some regrets regarding the way they trained their first dog, me included. The more dogs you get under your belt, the quicker they are to train, and the more confidence you will build in your own ability.

I train it at full distance, you need to give them the time and space to think through it. I know some that disagree though. It can depend on the dog I suppose.

Southern Obedience has an evening class on Wednesday nights (in Bangholme) and I think the Rotti club has an evening one to at KCC Park?

Hi T.O I really hope that you dont get any confusion at all, fingers crossed! The reality though, with most dogs, is that they have a lot of trouble understanding that a second command cancels out the first. Up to date, this has not been an issue that the dog has had to deal with, so just be patient and take it slowly. With what you are doing at this stage, it is like two sepperate exercises to the dog, but when you move to distance and you are assuming an exercise position already known to the dog (basic recall), then thats when confusion will probably set in. The key again with this exercise is patience. As Ptolomy mentioned, your dog will slow down to anticipate the drop. If your dog has a good speedy basic recall, the speed will return when the dog has the confidence in your signals and consistency. The D. Bauman method makes it a little easier on the dog to have the confidence as to when to drop. If you use that method, only use one board to start with, breaking the exercise up into two sepperate exercises at first by walking up to the dog after the drop signal is given, and reward like hell, then add multiple boards using varying distances for the drop to build confidence and speed. To get my dog to sit after retreive, I used a recall command as soon as the dog had the d/b in his mouth. He knew recall well, so automatically sat in front . Also made sure his mind was on the job for the return. Later faded that out.

I used D. Bauman method on my last trialling dog for DOR. Teach a basic recall over a series of low barriers, then when the dog is used to that, start dropping the dog randomly just before a barrier. It not only discourages slowing down before the drop zone, but they have to launch quickly to have the momentum to get over the barrier, encouraging a nice speedy secondry recall. It is the only exercise in open that I have not taught Oscar yet because I havn't trialled him thus far. I have not really seen the DOR taught like that, so I will be interested if there is any change when you change to distance signals.

Hi Hyland Mist Its great that you do that, it should be incorporated right from the beginning. I guess ex instructors dont make good students, but they dont know that at my new club, just needed a break so I could concentrate on my new dog, they are aware that I have experience though. I see doing stays without new distractions as a waste of time at the higher levels. At open level you should be just about all out of ideas. My old dog was fully proofed with out of site stays before he even entered encouragement (CCD) I struggle to find people that will train and help me to proof my dog. This has delayed his trialling debut.

Of course, it would all depend on the dogs natural temperement as to how far you go while proofing, I have been lucky to date, with my trialling dogs having great social manners regarding strange dogs. I dont use trials to proof, but use it to test the results of all the hard work in training. I dont trial until I am confident in my dog, I am not one to just jump in feet first. To enter a trail atm I have to beg for time off work, so I dont want to waste my time or money.

Hi Ness Some things I,ve formed my own opinion on, and the argument would have to be pretty dam convincing to sway me on that one. I am of the belief that if a dog does fails an exercise because of a distraction, then it simply was not proofed enough, including breaking dogs that want to jump, and almost anything else other than an attack. It really frustrates me at dog club because the instructors and most of the other handlers would not dream of trying to distract their dogs during stays, and I feel that my own dog is suffering when they refuse to let their dogs jump on mine during stays. My dog is not uncomfortable doing it, he wants to play too. I think that at open level that they should be thoroughly proofed by then. Funny though, most of the dogs in all classes at my club have trouble with stays. Wonder why I am looking forward to Gina's workshop though, cant wait.

I would not enter a pm trial if my dog did not work well in the am trial. I would continue on to the stays if my dog NQed on one exercise, but if it was clearly not up to standard, I would not have entered in the first place at any level. I disagree with Ness regarding the risk to your dog in the stays. The dog has just as much to gain by doing a solid one in trial conditions as opposed to failing one. If you proof your dog properly it wont matter. No-one can stop an attack, its just one of the small risks trialling. I am yet to see one.

Closest VCA club would probably be Northcote Dog Obedience Club Or Northern in Moonee Ponds (where I go)

I have never had a snooty judge in any obedience trial. They have all been very friendly, but you get the odd one that will try and get you to convert to whatever methods they use, which annoys me a bit sometimes.

I find the best way to teach drop to a green dog is by using the lure/guide method for about 8 or 9 times, then just use the food bowl at meal time. There comes a time where you just need to have patience and just give the down command (while holding the food bowl) and just wait. A double or triple command during the learning of this is ok. No response, no food. Still no response, not hungry enough. It is healthy to fast your dog. Wolves dont have refrigerators or pantrys. If you are worried about commands to eat etc, give the ok, but still hold the bowl. Use it to tease him etc .Dog may be a little confused but will work through it. Dont forget to use a marker when he does go down.

Yes, whenever you move off into heel.

Good luck to you Varicool!

I think that there is a huge difference between balanced "trainers", and newbys or people with little knowledge about how a dogs mind works. Most of what you see at dog clubs is all about embarrassment, frustration and inclass competition, not training methods. eg: lady doing mock trial has dog that bolts from trial ring mid trial, to do zoomies, finally, after about 3-4 laps woman catches dog after calling it. Handler then proceeds to rip the dogs head off with the chain (for coming back???) If I generally do use a check etc, it is done only if I am satisfied (with broad thinking) that dog is not confused, and is choosing to do its own thing.

I teach stand the same as stay. It is all in the timing if you are using the guiding method. You need to catch them before/during when they sit, not after. I proof it with resistance. If the dog stops too far forward, I continue the heel pattern with a left turn immediately following the stand.

There should be countless threads on teaching drop. Make sure when you lure with food that the lure is started from his nose, slowly working down trying to get him to tuck his chin into his neck, moving down the chest, then between the paws. Do not make too many movements away and outwards until he is in position. With larger dogs, between the paws is too far away once the dog has dropped, making them want to get up.

Hi PoodlesPlus Personally, I think you could have a lot to offer the forum with your trialling experience etc, but people do not like being mocked with "in your face" comments telling them they are simply wrong with a capital W. Then you harp on stating what a professional you are, and seem to dare people to say differently. People use a variety of training methods on this forum. It is obvious that you have full faith in R+, but this is not the Yahoo"Positive only"group, and you could do well to keep that in mind. No need to chime in every single time that you don't agree with something. Hell, if I responded to every comment that I did not agree with on this forum, I would 1) be here all day, and 2) not have many friends. The only reason I responded to this one was that you seem to feel genuinely hard done by. I am not trying to put sh#t on you, but you need to realise that there are emotions being felt on both sides of the computer screen. Nobody likes to be told they are wrong. Whether you are dead right or not, you will end up the loser.