dogdude

now!!! Did I mention you can buy them right off his website lol??

I think this clip is a great example of working in prey drive. Control and desperation is clearly evident.

One of the main reasons why I would not use one for prey drive training, is because I wouldn't be able to be in a position where I could fully control the game, and vary the levels of how hard I want to make it for the dog to achieve satisfaction. If my dog gave me a half hearted effort in what I required of it, I would not be in a postition to encourage a better effort once the ball is actually thrown away. If it was on a string like an orbee, it would then be under my full control of the chase part of the game. Its just easier to fine tune the game, and keep drive levels up, and continue to keep the dog interested. Many dogs will fetch a ball a few times and lose interest, because the game never changes, and they don't have to do anything different to go and get the ball, and interest decreases. If the ball was used in different ways, and only allowed for the dog to catch it (not go get it), when it is showing maximum effort to do so, then the dog is likely to maintain and improve the level of effort next time. ETA: I can also add the element of tugging to the chase game to give the game even more interest using a string.

Yes, but we can't "see" what the dog is thinking, or see what conditioning has gone into a dog to want the prey item so badly. You could of course make an educated guess,based on previous experiences training with other methods, but without knowing anything about how it was trained, then a guess is all it would be. Maybe if you grab a Balabanov dvd or something, you may see a difference in the dogs mindset

Corvus, drive is not defined by just body language alone. As I said in the other thread, its more about the desperation displayed by the dog to satisfy its prey drive. You almost sense the dog would walk over hot coals to acheive it. I have not sensed that before any other form of training. I am not claiming one method is better than another though, just trying to explain how to spot a dog working in prey drive. There is a controlled desperation evident, one that is not easily distracted.

Sorry Bedazzled My bitch is Brydee (Stafford). I got a new camera off Santa for Chrissy, so I will be able to get some vids up this year.

There are a large number of Rotty admirers and owners at Northern club in Moonee Ponds.

Hi Corvus The difference is not in the body language as such in my opinion, but in the way the dog is trained. The dog is trained to become almost desperate for the item. A food trained dog (trained using the conventional way) doesn't have that desperate attitude. That doesn't mean that the dog is so revved up its on its limits of being out of control. The opposite is trained into the dog. It learns to be desperate but still in control, to gain satisfaction.

I believe Ella gained all of her titles thus far using the technique. This is my first dog that I have trained using prey drive, and I still have lots to learn. I winged it using the Balabanov dvds, and I am quite happy with where we are at at this moment. She debuted in Novice with a 192, but failed to react to my signal during the recall in her second trial, after scoring highly in everything else (still don't know the reason) She seemed fully focused and pumped at the time." Bedazzled, I did see a huge difference in attitude and attention from "my" highly food driven dog, to my prey drive dog. I dont have a scientific mind to explain whats going on in the dogs head, but there is a marked difference, and my dog will froth at the mouth over a match stick if I encourage her to. The attidude seems to last far longer than the powers of food during a trial. In the past, I could see the drive go slowly down hill with my foodie, but it seems the longer my prey driven dog goes unsatisfied, the better she will work sometimes. These are my observations anyway. When they are switched on, they are really switched on.

Bedazzledx2 I know a number of highly successful trial winners that train using prey drive methods. They certainly don't advertise it though, as DogsVictoria doesn't see eye to eye regarding Schutz style training.

The way I taught my dog to release was to make the item "go dead". Just hold onto it tight using your legs for assistance, and dont move it, and wait the dog out. As soon as he releases, mark, then immediatly restart the game. Add the out command either before or after. Get him used to the idea that the release is the key to start all of the fun, and you will soon find he will be almost spitting it at you upon hearing the out command. You will be working in drive when you have control of it, and also be able to switch it on and off. Takes alot of work to get it to that stage, but it sounds like you are heading in the right direction

Just watching your clip, nice work Shoey. Must have been hiding under a rock,.......(didn't know you were expecting) Congrats! Dont get the SBT Bulletin. But thanks.

Hi Ness Were these people knowledgable about using prey drive to train? Or just a random dog owner shoving a tuggie down their dogs throat? There is no "push" involved in this style of training. Its all about allowing something to happen in a controlled manor.

Hi Diva If your dog has a good natural prey drive regarding small fluffy live things, then it shouldn't be too hard to transfer that interest onto something else. You just have to make the transition slowly. Using a tug is normally the end product of gaining drive interest. They are not generally taught from the start using one. The drive is slowly transfered from anything like a bit of fur on a stick and string, to chasing a rag or frisbee, to later varying the item to something more practical like a tuggy. (or any variation that suites your dog) Dogs are not often interested in tuggys at all. Mine definately wasnt. The key to making something interesting is in the way you use and present it, and the way you manage the interest, and keep the momentum going. One important point is that prey always moves away from the predator. Never towards it. Its not often easy to catch either, and can sometimes frustrate the dog when he doesn't catch it, making him try harder next time.

Hi PTD Probably not. What you have sounds like play drive, and when it concerns other dogs, it is more of a problem that will compete with prey drive (chasing, catching, satisfying). If you take a look on youtube,there are a number of examples (good and bad) regarding building prey drive. Type in "building prey drive" into the search field. You will see a pattern forming with dogs frustration levels played with. Its not really just rev em up and reward,...you need to create much more interest than that. Maybe you could attend one of K9s workshops? Not all dogs are suitable for using the method with. The more you have to start with the easier it is to work with.

Another vote for I.B "Clear Communication" and "The Game"

Hmmm..... that style of heelwork looks familar lol. Nice work. I wants me one of those dogs next!!

Not mine of course, but I like like this womans luring (starts off a bit slow)

Its great to see more Staffords in the ring magicmine. There used to be alot, but I dont see as many (in Melbourne anyway) these days.

Have a couple of clips of puppy work of Brydee, but nothing worth looking at really. I have a really crap camera. I have recently got one of those Aldi hd camcorders, but cannot work out how to get the footage to upload onto my computer from the memory card. It came with software, which the computer seems to be rebelling against. Need to take it to someone knowledgable. I will put some training ones up as soon as I can get it soughted. Will be trialling in the morning, and some of the kids are coming with me, but no trialling footage till next year. Have been checking out alot of youtube clips lately on drive building and drive work. There is some good stuff on there, and some really stupid stuff as well like people swinging 14 week old pitbull pups around while they are engaged with the tuggie etc ETA: Nice work there too Pax!!

Nice work kathg! Nice drive working for you there.

You don't need to memorise the whole pattern. I normally take note of the first few turns, just to give myself the time to settle in. I also take note of the times that the pattern heads straight for the ring rope. There is nothing worse than heading for it and the judge decides to give you a late direction, and you almost trip over your dog, or give it mixed turning signals.

A little tip to help give you a heads up on the heel pattern etc, is watch the others in your ring, and take note of the heel pattern. Most judges will put everyone through the same routine, so try to memorise it, so you know what the next direction is most likely to be.

The long range forcast for Sunday has changed daily this week. Ranged from 22-28!

Congrats!! :rolleyes: