dogdude

Hi Delkerabo I am talking about Broadmeadows............but as I said......the information did come second hand, so I may be wrong?

Ok Monelite!.............If you paint your dog yellow........and enter into a retrieving trial,..............I will put some high heels on my Staffy and hope she passes as a red dobe at the up and coming Schutz nationals!!! ;)

No..........But a Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier certainly could. I did say that dogs that have what it takes, should be able to compete. I'm not sure if Boxers are allowed, but they are used as police dogs, and are of suitable build.

There is a Schutz club in the next suburb from me, but i'm not sure how the two styles would marry.........(I think Schutz is voice control only, where ANKC is often hand signal based) The base methods of drive training are the same though. I hear from another DOLer that the club near me is really small, and the training is very informal and at irregular times.

I train in drive with Brydee and she has strong prey drive, and sound temperament. I would love to train Schutz but knowing that I couldn't trial would make it pointless, and I cant see why it should be so exclusive to a few breeds, when individuals within breeds can have what it takes physically and mentally. The breeds allowed to compete are from different corners of the spectrum anyway, and are not of the same traits or types. If Airedales can compete why cant other terrier types for instance. Completely different makeup to GSDs for instance.

You need to ask how to learn to control your dog................not teach your dog road sense. The simple answer is to forget letting your dog off lead in public, until you have complete off lead control. Joining your local dog obedience club would be a good start......that is the cheapest option. Private lessons the best option if finances allow. Regular socialisation with everything that exists in the big bad world, would be of great long term benifit too.

In simple terms, Drive is used to describe a mix of chemical reactions going on in the dogs head that "drives" him, or motivates him to perform a task, in order to satisfy his desires. Using these desires to your advantage in training is refered to as "drive training"

I would look at the Ivan Balabanov dvds. He is one of the few top trainers to actually compete in the sport, and put his money where his mouth is. I found his dvds great and am using his methods for my pup (great results so far). I found the Leerburg dvds a bit vague, and had the opinion that the methods need a really steely dog temperment wise. Balabanov has a softer approach, and many Australian Schutz clubs use his methods. Any prey drive methods are hard on the handler physically though, Balabanovs methods more so. If you are not fit now, you will be soon, using his methods. K9Force methods lend themselves to Schutz (prey drive training) and he provides distance learning packages. ( K9force.net) or PM him through the forum.

Put Brydee in a runthrough (Novice) for the first time at club on Sunday. She worked fantastically, and I am tempted to steal her from her mum to enter into a trial, but will wait till mums ready. Very mature for a 6 month old pup!

Go back to the beginning and teach "Heel" as static postion. Simply only reward when the dog is in perfect straight postion and mark and reward as soon as he gets in that perfect position. If your dog is facing you on a 90 degree angle to you all of the time, you need to make sure it is not a focus related problem. Focus should be taught sepperately first of all, before anything else. If the dog is focused on the wrong part of you ie: where the food is hiding, it will cause most crooked sits. If you are using a food lure properly, he will have no need whatsoever to want to get out of position ie: make sure you lure and reward the dog where its head "should" be (with left hand). Another trick to combat wide bum syndrome is do most of your heel work moving in left hand circles (large and small) depending on your dogs reactions and position, until he straightens up. It is very hard for the dog to continue to sit at an angle toward you when they are always having to physically work just to get out of your way. Dogs will always work out the laziest way to get the job done.

I would also concentrate on a food target in general training as some of the others say. It actually promotes stronger drive. Start off by running to it with him sounding all exited, and slowly stop a little further from the target over a couple of weeks until you dont run with him. Don't have the target too close. When he starts to gain his own confidence, place the food target on the far side of the jump. Run with him over the jump and release while in mid air (run with him the first few times) then back off. Releasing to a food target part way through an exercise is great to get speed into recalls and retrieving a dumbell etc.

No club will teach you with trialling in mind from the start. Get a mentor and use any old club for distractions. All of the clubs over that side of town have a small trialling base. The closest club with a large trialling base would be Warringal in Bundoora.

"Ok" "Yes" "Good" "nah"

Hi Kelpie-i Not confused with methodology.......used the clicker before with great success....but in my personal experiences thus far.......no more successful than using a marker word. When I trial, I give a cue to work (hop in) but often the judge will waffle on for varying lengths of time and I find a "yes" (even when judge does not waffle) just gives that extra level of animation that the others say when their dogs hear the clicker noise. (trick dog into thinking a reward is just around the corner) I'm sure though being a pro, that your experience in judging comparisons as far as levels of excitement where Clicker noise v marker words would far outweigh mine if you have trained hundreds of dogs. Just commenting on my own experiences :D

Personally........I found it makes no difference at all...........they both mean the same thing. I also find it a little better when you start off the exercises in the trialling ring. When the judge asks if you are ready, I answer a very clear "yes".....and it normally helps get good animation from the dog going into the start of the exercises. As you can tell.......i'm not exactly a fan. :rolleyes: They're just a gimmick to me. I really cant understand how they are better for "uncoordinated people with no timing" ? If you can press a button in time then surely you can say "yes"?

I aggree with Mel...............you are using the marker "yes" (which is what the clicker is designed for). If dog responds well to yes.........and your timing with it is good (used at the exact moment of great work)........then chuck the clicker in the bin and replace it with "ok" to release to reward.

To really see what goes on, you would be better off leaving your dogs at home. Obedience trials are quiet affairs, and unless you are standing directly outside one of the rings...you won't know whats going on (hearing what the judge is saying etc) Its generally only dogs that are competing allowed onto the grounds, and if you take your dogs you could only view from a distance.

Hi Bret Where are located? writing style suggest U.S? Anyway.........It sounds like your dog is retrieving with his own prey drive (hence not wanting to give up the dumbell) rather than working the Shirley Chong method (click and treat?) The dog should be extremely keen to spit it out on return to get her treat. So.....dog is either not hungry.............or has not been trained out properly working in prey drive. (or both) Some drive trainers use an aversive method to teach out, and some make the out a way to restart the game instantly using the dogs natural desire to re-engage and satisty drive. It sounds like you need to make the exercise a lot clearer to the dog. Work out which is your strongest motivator for the retrieve and stick to it.

In short.........heel is heel. The way that its taught is the difference between Schutz and what we produce. In Schutz they tend to teach "find the leg", and get the dog to be aware of an active (with the leg) position compared with what we teach (more of a static position with our shoulders type) Their dogs also have loads more drive than our food trained ones too, hence the difference in animation. You can do a little test with your own dog: Give your dog a heel command, and without moving your feet......turn your upper torso left and right.....i'll bet you that most dogs will follow your shoulder movement left or right! A Schutz dog will only follow the leg and won't move no matter how far you twist. Their dogs work off voice cues only and tend to teach focus on the face where most of our dogs will take their position cues from lower points of our bodies to allow for the sighting of hand signals. If you watch the Balabanov dvds, his dog is never out of position, and have a lazerbeam consistency with their heeling position and the sloppy work you may have seen elsewhere may be just a handler fault?

Sounds like you did fantastic Seita! I have been doing drive training with my pup. She is coming along nicely.

I would maybe go back to basics and proof with the other dogs placed at a comfortable distance for her and slowly work your way back in. Perhaps a short spell may be of benifit too? I would maybe focus on Stays only,and make that her only opportunity for fun time out with mum for 4 or 5 weeks. Whatever time you do spend training, use it to set up friends for stays practice.

Way to go Leopuppy04 and boy!!!! Fantastic results! Compliments on the trial organisation too. Arya: We went crap! :shakehead: Fantastic warm up........very attentive outside the ring.........got in the ring full of confidence but just looked like his mind was a million miles away. Started of with freezing on the first turn, (called him up) and he was great for the rest of the heel pattern (still on a pass).............great Stand for exam,........good retrieve on flat.........great retrieve over high jump...........NQ on C.O.P (looked at me like a dufus when I gave the drop signal). I guess the really disappointing part for me was trying to work out why he froze during the heel pattern. I have never physically corrected him while heeling and he has never lost more than 1 or 2 points for heel exercise. I know the C.O.P thing was just a brainfade that I can explain and accept.

We got our first NQ today. Refused drop in the Change of position. Had only average scores before that, very disappointing day for us. back to the old drawing board.

Well.........I know I can get maybe another 15% out of him by wetting him on a hot day, but I guess that you know her best. I just dont want to give my bugger the satisfaction of sunning his little butt at home after a tediously planned preperation! He was just peaking nicely till this morning. Can't change the weather though..........and will be the same for everyone I suppose...........but I know some dogs that actually work better in the warm stuff. I think I winged about the heat last time too and he managed a 196 so maybe he will magically come good overnight? Not on this mornings performance.

Good luck for tomorrow Ness! I am over all this warm weather!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think i'll move to Tassie!