dogdude

My question to the clicker people is; Do you also mark non compliance? If so, how? :D

Good work Kavik!

My advice is to stick with a club that is affiliated with your states control council. They will not train on Halti's only.

Hi 4 Paws If you are going to use the tuggie in drive training (I know you have expressed interest in the Balabanov dvds), I would start off with something small, with high motivation (like one that has a squeeky toy incorporated, and maybe some fur) I started my pup off with one of those "Tuff" branded ones with fur and squeeky. Although it only lasted all up about 1 hour of tugging and chasing, it was highly motivating, and it made the progression to training tuggie easy. The training style ones are only short, and have a handle on each end. Tuggies with one handle can put too much pressure on the dogs neck. Holding a two handled tuggie is much safer for the dog. I got a free one when I ordered the Leerburg dvd, and after 3 months of training, it hasn't dropped a stich yet. My advice is to try to get the dog interested in the chase before the actual tugging part. I started just whizzing it around on the floor with my hand and teased her with it until she started chasing it. Long tuggies are impracticable for drive training IMO. I got my short, furry, squeeky tuggie at Pet Warehouse for about $15.

Yes, from someones burnt copy lol! You can order it from dogwise.com from the U.S I also hear good things about Godfried Dildey.

Ivan Balabanov "The Game" and "Obedience without conflict" (drive training ) Pricey but very good. (he dosn't promote clickers though)

You can buy them from dogwise.com They are pretty expensive though, and your best bet is getting someone to make you a copy. Mine are bad copys, and I need some new ones too. If you rack up over 100 posts on dol, you can join the book/dvd borrowing list. They are there. (pinned to the top of the "general" thread.)

Good choice. I'm following his dvds atm. My dog is responding great to his methods so far. They do not go into bite work or tracking though. Just the basic methods that you can use for obedience etc. I really hope he brings out more.

If you want the dog to be able to respond to your children too, then I would get them involved in the T.O.T method pinned at the top of the forum. You will also need to define your pack structure. Clickers are not rewards for the dogs.......they are only markers. The dog is working for the food, not the click. The click is only a replacement for telling the dog he is doing what you want, at the precise moment he does it. Some people find it easier to click rather, than say a quick yes. They both mean the same thing. As others have said, they are good for training complicated tricks which involve lots of steps to learning them. A basic formal obedience retrieve is a good example. To the outsider, it looks quite simple and natural. To some dogs it is.....but others not. It is quite a complicated exercise to teach which has many steps chained together to get the final result reliably.

Without being an expert in drive training....you can make the dog believe that your prey item is higher valued than other prey. Not sure that it can be taught at such a young age though.

There are many angles that you could look at this Midol. I would want to keep the natural inheritted drives and use them to my advantage in training. If more people knew how, there would be very few dogs in pounds. The very drive that we bred for in the first place is what is sealing their fate on death row. Just dosn't make sense at all, does it? Older breeds trying to fit into modern society because we "like the look of them".

Hi Michelle3 Not sure about the Schutz world, but obedience trialling has very few "critics" going around. The competitors know all too well how easy things can go against them, and most have been down that path on many occasions. Other competitors are more likely to cheer you on rather than knock you,...........cause they can then grill you for "secrets" I find other competitors are more likely to criticise themselves before anyone else. You can own an obvoiusly supreme show dog, and afford to have a big mouth............but you can own the worlds best trialling dog, and you can never hide a bad day with him,......nor afford to be able to shoot off your mouth about others. I would guess Schutz more so, because it is a very small training world. Which dvds did you order???

Our warmest congrats Shoey. Go Stafffffforrrrddds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes..........What Seita said re titles. Just need to send in your original rego papers so that they can change your dogs name to include his title.

Your dog will not be confused at all. It is just an obedience exercise like everything else. The chances are the dog will not offer the behavior by himself without command. Don't rely on it to save his life at home.

I agree with most of the above. Rather than doing so many full recalls........do short fronts......and incorporate them in a game like the two food game. You need to put a high value on the recall, and keep it fun. Often let her rome free to sniff and explore, then call her to front, but put a high value on her return each time. Again make a game of it, then let her return to what she was doing. Stay away from too much formal stuff. If you want to keep your dog happy and keep good drive, you need to make everything a high value game. A high value food lure should ensure the dog fronts before thinking about going around. If not.......stand against a wall.

My advice is to follow the T.O.T pinned as a sticky at the top of the forum. More frequent walks will probably settle your Lab down. Also ask him to sit still at heel before you put his collar and leash on. Once he learns that he dosn't go anywhere until he sits still, enabling you to put the leash on, he will soon start to sit still. Consistancy is the key.

What system of reward do you use? I would shorten the time and distance, and use T.O.T to fix it, using a negative marking word each time the dog shuffles,.........break from the exercise, and start again. No need raise your voice or sound grumpy while marking negatively. You don't want the dog to lose the drive needed to stay still. With those little problems, you need to let the dog know that what he is doing is not acceptable the instant he does it. Waiting more than a second is too late. Make the dog do it for his dinner. He will soon learn to keep still. Another tip is to demand maximum focus while he is doing it. This will minimise outside distractions that may be making him too relaxed. Make sure the dog is in a well balanced sit to start with.

Hi Kavik Yes She started off on TOT with food.........so item release was an easy transition. Having the item or food on your body (beyond the targeting and learning stages) only serves to get a false focus in heelwork according to Balabanov. His first dvd compares all of the training styles, and demonstrates the problems regarding each, with practical demonstrations shown. One of those demonstrations was about having food in your pockets etc. They seemed to make sense. I have mostly used a food target bag to train Oscar too, but still use a lure in training incase I need to re-engage focus for any reason. Balabanov teaches dog to focus on his head movements in order to get an early cue in the turns. When the item is on you, the dog is thinking too much about where and when it will appear. When you work with a reward target.... the dog has only got you, and what you want to focus on. I started off running to the item with the dog at first, then eventually just send them. Experiment with your dog regarding how far away you need the reward to maintain the level of drive and focus. Some dogs, it makes no difference really. For recall for instance, I place the prey item behind me about 2 metres away, to encourage the dog to move fast towards me. For C.O.P.......I put it behind the dog, to encourage the dog to push up, as opposed to wanting to move forwards to gain reward. With recall, sometimes I will release the dog during various stages of the exercise directly to the item or food without fronting to mix it up and maintain good speed. It keeps them on their toes.

Pretty normal for a 10 month old pup I would suggest..................just be careful that you don't promote the behavior too much by constantly putting a high value on "doggie play" You don't need to let your pup play with scores of dogs to socialize him. If you put more value on yourself as the centre of fun, it will help to direct less excitable attention towards other dogs while in your company.

I prefer to work mine totally seperately, away from the home enviroment. Gives them the solotude they need to learn without them thinking about each other, or my kids running a muck.

Going well Jules! She's huge! All that self videoing is hard work! When we walked to out normally desolate training ground the day I filmed, it was over run with 3 year olds and their mothers (there is play equipment etc there). I felt a bit embarrassed when I looked up to switch off the camera and found them all gathered together watching. The parents then let all the littlies run up to pat her without ok'ing it with me. Lucky for them she is great around the kids. My silly old computer won't even let me upload video to photobucket. I had to go to mums to upload it.

I go for the ring run through (which is what is essentially the trialling class), but I don't teach new exercises there unless they have equipment that I don't have at home. I use it for socialising (dogs and me), and of course distractions after learning new exercises. I would never attend a group class at a dog club (no need to......they are only for newbys to learn the craft), and are counter productive to a trialling dogs learning curve and drive. We have quite a sizeable trialling group at Warringal, so its good just to go and talk dogs!

:D Congrats on the title Seita! Its very satisfying to see all the hard work pay off. Bring on the Open!

Hi Seita Yes.......the next stage in her heeling work is to work without direct eye contact. We have just started learning this.......but its heaps easier to teach this when you have a helper. She has only been to dog club once.........but we are about to tackle this problem now that the wife has a few spare days. I want the dog to cue turns off my head turn. JulesP: Thanks!

Have been winging our way through working in drive with my young Stafford pup (7 months old) Just a short vid to update those who know us. We have been following the Balabanov dvds, and although the work is very unrefined, she is coming along great. Brydee heelwork vid