Australdi

That could work if I get desperate...he knows about lemons after he grabbed a wedge that fell on the floor once...should have seen the look on his face!! At the moment, a quick pfft of breath in the direction of his nose is doing the trick (must be all the garlic I eat!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) oh & Sunny ...aries are much better at looking after everyone elses problems than they are attending to their own ...don't worry, he'll get bored with it soon enough & then he'll want you to start rock climbing or base jumping! Aus

My first dobe had contact allergy from grass so bad, he'd lose all his belly, chest & inner leg hair & require cortisone shots each month during summer! Then everyone at dog training gave me the secret! remove red meat from the diet...replace with chicken base. worked brilliantly, no more cortisone shots & the small patches that did still remain were easilly treated with a blend of 5% chamomile oil, and washing with seboayse. & moving to a different house had the final result of no more dermatitis! Aus

Good god... that explains our stand-off... I am an Aries as well! :D :D ...hey at least we forget it the next day! ....and it was my strong aries protection drive that brought me to comment in the first place. ..actually, being an aries with a Saggie rising...I never stop talking! (but my pisces moon makes quite a sensitive little lamb sometimes ;) ) as for going off topic...heck I'm an aries...I can be distracted by anything new & exciting, so it's not an issue at all! staying focussed on one topic is! :p ;) Aus

oh oh I 'get' you too now Aus...I live with an Aries :D Lucky for you guys I'm a Leo so if we ever have a big fight on here I will forgive you in the morning :D oh heck! does your other half ever get a chance at the mirror in the bathroom!!!??? ;) ;) (my brother is a leo ;)) and yeah, I do respond well to acceptance & adulation :p :p :D Aus

:D hehehe...so now you "get" me myzka :D Aus

That is a good point K9... I was probbably putting Zillah under too much distraction on one level, as this was a dog who to all intents & purposes had no basic training, as I personally had an expectation that he could eventually behave like my trained dobe (who had a much better foundation), given the instruction & consistency. The beautiful thing is that Zillah has reminded me to "every season , turn, turn , turn" and I have adjusted my training schedule to take this into account. He's not Daim's, he hasn't had the same preparation & I need to work with him as an individual :D a timely reminder for someone who was perhaps getting a bit blase in training animals (not really been tested for at least 2 years!..horses & dogs )...the pertinant point is that I had "students" who had at least minimal basic training :D In my observation, Zillah (maybe abberant) doesn't respond to the type of correction applied...all seem to have their success & failure....however he is very sensitive to the intensity of the application (sometimes in situations of high distraction, it is the intensity alone that draws his attention) I'm trying at the moment, to correct this...so that the mode, rather than the intensity is the driving factor. and it's definately working, but it's a day by day lesson like you said...I'm endevouring to decrease distractions, so that minimal correction is applied...and where correction is decreased, it is counterbalanced with an increase in positive motivation., so in a sense, I don't see this as "backing off" as the balance is mitigated ;) & yes...it is working..faster than I even projected ;) Aus

never fear, I'm an aries...so backing off is not in my vocab! ;) I did have to adjust my intensity of correction though, as Zillah seems (despite his earlier contradictory reactions) quite astute & sensitive. Each day I adjust my interaction with him, although still maintain a consistancy in what I expect in his behaviour (bottom line :p) It's an ongoing process due to his (indeterminate) past history..and it's only been just over 2 months since I got him. however, it is comming along nicely if I take a broader perspective on it..he has progressed in leaps & bounds! (I just had it easy for the last 8 yrs with Daims....and sunk into complacency as a consequence ) ;) I began to believe that Daim's was the "norm"! unfortunately, Zillah, didn't have the same enviroment that Daim's had in his formative years, so the work continues :D Zillah has actually relaxed into a dog who is currently sitting on the couch, napping & quite content...which according to the RSPCA handlers that looked after him for a month, is behaviour that they couldn't even imagine from him, so I must be doing something right! ( the first comment they all had, was supprise that he had 4 feet on the ground!) as all they had seen was an exhuberant dobe who pulled, jumped & generally was overcome to excitement of attention! He's now (I can begin to see) a dog who can contain himself, despite his enthusiasm :p because he learned very quickly that there is a level of expected behaviour when those boundaries are consitantly reinforced and rewarded. ;) ...we're getting closer to the fine tuning stage now, & I'm really impressed with his willingness to work with this, all he needed was some direction & leadership...he's intelligent enough to work it out for himself ;) as for his licking....it's his learned way of "making things right" and the more we work together, the more he learns that he doesn't have to resort to this behaviour....like I said, I was just being an irritable "bitch" when I posted this thread! and it's an ongoing process of levels....correct one issue, and then adjust depending on the response, every day is a learning day at the moment...for both of us ;) & I'm taking longer than he is, because I still am affected by the loss of Daims. (and the level of behaviour that Daims displayed) ultimately, having "been there & done that" I know that Zillah is progressing even quicker than Daim's did at the same age...but being an impatient aries...I have to continually remind myself that it did take work & dedication until I had a dog like Daims! & I have no doubt that Zillah can ultimately achieve even more than Daim's did, if I give him a supportive environment....for a start, at least we don't have to stop at EVERY tree! :D ...Amazing how two little dangly bits can alter behaviour! to answer your observation...I was eventually "over correcting"...however in the first month, strong correction was required at times. I've had to modify it now that Zillah is responding to me quickly & positively, as if I didn't I would undo all the work we have so far done. Like I said, it's a day by day balance until we reach synchronicity ;) & lucky for me...we seem to be getting very close to that already! :D Aus

Sunny :p hehehhee..yep it's so cute! & I'm a big sucker for cute (except when I'm in bitch mode! ) so he does sometimes get away with murder! ...I mean how can you resist that hurt innocent raising of the eyebrows and puppy dog eyes!! :D as for what the neighbours think....I suspect mine are jealous too! :D ;) because I use the same line too "stop licking me for christsake!" ;) :p Aus

Thanks K9, you've hit the nail on the head as the correction is his cue to start sucking up! ;) even the low growl suggested by Tangerine dream is enough to get him going :D It's entirely my fault of course as in the beginning, I did accept a small amount of it, whilst I was assessing his levels of agression (he was a 15 mth old rescue) & was showing some very assertive behaviours after the first week. He'd spent most of his life chained up or caged & hadn't learned socialising, and wasn't reading other dogs signals to back off, so I must admit, I rewarded him when he would back down...I've now got a dog that will "leave off" annoying other dogs with over the top play...but suffering the predicatable consequences! :D (at least I've got clean toes & belly button! hahahaha!) he is slowly getting the "no licks" command and I have had to lower the intensity of my corrections & intensity of distraction to achieve it, being an adolecent, who was seriously understimulated previously, he's taking to training like a duck to water! since it has been over 8 years since I've had an adolecent dobe on my hands (& that one was well trained by 10 mths) I had almost forgotten the passion dobes have to learn their lessons so quickly. so I'm really only having a hissy rant brought about by one evening when I wasn't feeling well (& therefore niggly) & in his enthusiasm to make me feel better the tongue was out in force! hahaha & each time I asked him to stop, or tried to avoid it, he just tried harder! :p having been chained for so long, I believe he developed licking as a self soothing behaviour as I've noticed in the 2 months I've had him his self-licking has reduced dramatically. due to all his other behavioural issues he came with...I'm really not worried about the licking, because it indicates that he's understanding his re-training/training and I'd rather a dobe that can read emotions, than one who is de-sensitised. he was just trying to make "mum" feel better in the way he used to make himself feel better & it was more my issue than his! Mum was having a "bad hair day" ...and I was being a bitch! ;) Aus

:D ok...I've tried "no licks" and correctional reinforcement....I've also tried positive distraction.... but still, he want's to lick to suck up to me, shmoose, and clean my toes! I know it's a pack heirachy response...I know it's him trying to curry my favour...but I just can't bear the constant licking!!! a small amount is ok...but this is getting rediculous!!! ...yeah, I know, dobes are sooks!....they are the cosumate smoozers for pats & lov'in....but my toes, hands, arms, legs, fingers & belly button are no longer safe from the attack of the irrepresible tongue! :D any suggestions!???? ????? ;) Aus

and spikes puppy..I know exactly what you are describing..because I'm still trying to come to terms with loosing my (almost) 11 yr old dobe 2 months ago...and it was a loss that plunged me into critical depression...as that dog had saved my life 3 times! (and stuck by me 8 years longer than any "partner" had...I have another dobe pulling me through it all....but he's not the same dog/partner that I lost I am about to lose 3 of my grandparents within the next 2 years...and the possibility that one of my parents may crumble too...& if I'm going to be honest...the loss of my dog has been more devastating. because he was there for me when no-one else was. No doubt I will grieve at the loss of my close family, but I believe that I will be pragmatic when that eventuates...unfortunately, I could not be as pragmatic when Daims left me so suddenly...the impact it has had on my life, I can't begin to explain! Aus

That's a big call for those of us that have chosen not to have children...our dogs are not just child subsittutes...but also our permanent partners often.... the loss of a partner like that is just as devastaing as the loss of of a human partner..perhaps more so, as dogs tend to be more faithfull than humans! ..I don't doubt that it's quite easy for some people to move on from the death of a dog....I also acknowledge (from my own experience) that losing a partner..a faithfull partner that has lasted 8 years longer from any human counterpart is a devastating event. ...an event that maybe is not as easy to "get over" as you experienced the 2 opposing experiences of the loss of a dog (one can experience it as an inevitable & logical process due to the relative life spans of dogs to humans)...& yet a dog can be so much more to an individual than a human partner can be....and that is not a relationship that should be disregared lightly :D ....at the end of the day....my dog...Daim's was far superiour to any human counterpart, and he was much more than "just a dog" I'm not saying that your perspective is wrong....for many...it's very accurate....however, I implore you to consider that there are other alternatives/experiences out there, and that those experiences are just as valid as yours :D sincerely Aus

don't laugh! ...maybe it's your "calling"!!!!!! BTW...I also have polish blood in me....is this linked to the "dobe lov'in gene"??? :D Aus

have to agree with this 100% ...& it's hilarious to watch some of the lateral solutions they come up with in testing out what works & what doesn't!!! I've been away from here for a while (due to studies) but thought you all might like an update on how Zillah's going...he's a very different dog from when I first got him (2 or so months ago)..but still a long way to go! like K9 force says...he's learning by testing what works & what doesn't..ie: a demanding bark, or jump on the window will not get him inside, but a soft wuff will he knows it, because he always ends up giving the correct response, but he's still testing what he can get away with! hahaha (dobe families will understand what I'm saying) typical teenage dobe that he is...he'll test every boundary that you set & you'd better be consistant in your response, because give a dobe an inch & they'll take a mile! ;) although I haven't had alot of time spare at the moment (final essays & swatting for exams) Zillah is now consistently heeling on lead (4 training sessions), ignoring most distractions, sit stays good....drop stays pretty good, but still need more work (only time he doesn't break is when food is on offer), recall improving but inconsistant when the pup next door is yapping behind the fence! ...so as soon as exams are over, we are going to do some solid recall training (can't wait until the day I can let him off lead outside the back yard!.....race track runs here we come!! ) he also learned on Sunday that even though he already knows that bones are not allowed inside....if mum & dad are distracted by something like the final 5 mins of bathurst...then a bone can be snuck inside, but when mum & dad spot it I have to take it back out ASAP!...doesn't stop him from trying to do nonchalent walk by's to see if we're watching & he even attempted the drop it at the door, then go back later & try to sneek it in backwards!! :D (bummer, that one didn't work either! spotted!!) hehehhehe...Daim's taught me NEVER to underestimate the ingenuity of a Dobermann! Dobes aren't just smart when they're allowed to think for themselves.....they're downright cunning! ....but harnessing that drive/cunningness makes them pretty easy, ...well relatively easy to train as long as you remain more intelligent than they are ....which is an on-going test of wits for quite a number of years in my experience. Just when you think you've got 'em licked....they'll push the envelope! if you're prepared for that..then they're like putty in your hands until you relax your guard! :D but they're so adorable, you can't help but love 'em! Aus

:D :D ;) .... now I think you understand where I was comming from. my only problem was that half the rangers/coppers/etc...would use any excuse to come around for a cuppa! so I HAD to be Ms "prim & proper!" BTW I only said the "magic word" once (years after training) and I had him on lead at the time, he remembered it, & saved me from a very nasty situation (walking at night) after that particular incident, he would automatically "assume the position" just waiting for the word when a threat made itself known & thank goodness I never had to use it again & thank goodness I never had to take it further & release him from the lead (phew!) his stance & warning glare seemed to be as effective in a non-working encounter to those that tried. people would laugh as they thought they knew Daims...and declared that he was so sooky la-la that he'd lick someone to death, rather than step into protective drive...until they saw him in a REAL threat scenario....after that they agree with what I told them, he'll never start it, but if lines are drawn & hints/warnings aren't acknowledged & respected..he'll finish it. He was one very loyal & very patient companion, but if I was in real danger....he responded to breed type. The point is....you can get away (sometimes) with speeding on the odd occasion, but if you do it regularily, or obviously in a public setting, your odds of getting away with it are rapidly diminishing Aus