BJean

LD I don't know what breed of dog you have, but it reads that your dog knows very well how to deal with snakes. I think that is a good thing and would praise the behaviour As an aside, dogs that are good with snakes tend to have a penchant for knowing when they are about, well before we do. So in that regard I don't know how the e collar would work, if you don't know when the dog is near a snake until the dog has done away with it.

CC hugs to you and your family hugs for choppa

homestead kennels in wonga park are great

how freaky, glad to hear you are okay - and what great little defenders onyx and Pokey are (love the name Pokey - is that from the plasticine show with the green man???)

thanks cosmolo - is NDTF the only course that looks at all theories?

Thanks Helen and Kavik I'm looking into helping train/start LGDs for stock work both pups and adults, and problems encountered during ownership etc - hmm will see what the courses have to offer ;)

What about the Australian Dog Trainers Academy? Anyone have thoughts/comments/experience with them? Sorry to hijack your thread RF, but the 5 - 10 hours per weeks I find myself helping out other LGD breed owners, I'm thinking I should explore some accreditation instead of just chaos experience

Known for her insight, enthusiasm and red-carpet glamour, Tamar rejects the painful prong collars and choke chains that have been common tools of dog trainers for decades. This spring she releases her highly anticipated book, "The Loved Dog: The Playful Nonaggressive Way to Teach Your Dog Good Behavior" (Simon and Schuster) and her DVD, "Celebrate Your Dog! The Loved Dog Way of Training," based on her innovative and revolutionary approach to dog training - one that is light-years ahead of the typical dog trainer pack. Maybe I'm biased and don't know squat and am a poor dog handler and as a result my dogs and my views on training suffer as a consequence. But if I could have a trainer who shuns painful and cruel methods like the correction chain and prong - even a life coach for dogs walk and train a typical male CAO and ASD (only because these are the only breeds I 'know') then I'll be a convert. Please show me the light and walk one in confidence on a halti or flat collar. By 'confidence' I mean if they decide to go for another dog or 'threat' no correction will be necessary to enforce a sit or leave command. Actually instead of whining I'm going to look me up a positive trainer. Perhaps I will learn something new and change my view.

if I do a DOL search will that bring up the posts? (no idea what 'non-ohmic' is/means )

Thanks Natsu now after reading those MTucker articles I'm even more confused because MTucker is encouraging praise as well?? maybe because I don't know the training theory nuances I can't see it.

it was the emotive anti MTucker style used by Denis Cody that got my sister into an 'action' state ie: correction chain = antiquated disaster = MTucker. whether this was denis cody's stance or not because of the emotvie crtitical style the letter was a bit misleading IMO. Perhaps not to trainers and those in the know, but to someone who is looking at buying their first dog and reading training articles with interest.

thanks toohey trying to work out what is what with whom !

Thanks Erny - oh good you were confused also I don't read MTucker's training articles (nothing on MTucker but sometimes reading training articles is a headache in that you have to have a visual artist in your head all the time - like trying to read how to ride a horse - better done in practise) so I don't know what Denis Cody is referring to either. I was hoping someone here would know.

Thanks Cosmolo what started / instigated the question was my sister showed me the article and asked why show dogs use slip chains and other dogs used choker chains etc I was hoping that someone may have known Denis Cody (or Michael Tucker for that matter) and therefore could elucidate further. ETA: just read the title: folly of coke chain - maybe too much has been done and readers are tense? :p I shall fix to avert discontent

Never heard of him.. But agree with this quote 100%! :)Always remembering though.. It's not the equipment that is abusive, it's the application. Which I think he is trying to stress in that quote. Thanks Mark I didn't consider that as the focus of 'debate' in the letter :p

No :p I had my interpretation of the letter and thought I would ask trainers theirs - which they gave. Where else would I ask but trainers who know? why would I want you to 'slag' another? Not being a trainer I thought I would ask trainers???? is that slagging? Edited to remove croatian temper.

I wasn't sure but i interpreted the letter as anti correction chain and other things (Michael Tucker). I'm have no opinion of Mtucker - but why do trainers when they want to have a go at another - condemn training tools in general? Denis could have written "MTucker is a banana for xyz " instead my interpetation of his letter was that correction chains were antiquated like MTucker. I also see how dog's llives are restricted because of the slavish refusal to not use motivation or rewards in recalls ... the only reason why i would bother to read MTucker's articles is to remember how not to train my dogs and how far we have come in a short while. it is wonderful for me to deal with the facts of how dogs work and I have two well motivated, well mannered dogs that play tug, win a bit, are used to food for reinforcement and have achieved advanced training goals.

it's a reflection of culture, lifestyle and breed expextations more than the breed(s). Dog are brought down from the mountains or from rural areas to the city for once a year special breed(s) shows. They are not trained to be show dogs the way a show dog in Australia may be nor are they exposed to strangers approaching them or socialised in that context. So what appears to an outsider as an untenable aggressive dog to not let the judge near it is normal behaviour for a dog in an unnatural environment. I have sent you PM of the breeds ETA: human / dog aggression is often bred out of many lines of tradiotional working breeds - I have read breeders bemoan about the Anatolian and I think wel maybe what you expect of it as a show dog is not what it was meant to be for? When I read the posted excerpt on thai dogs beng shown I thought, fantastic: they are exhibiting the dog without dumbing down its characterisitcs. If I see a show team of thais trotting around the ring in the future I will think: "there goes a thai in form but not in psyche - it has lost what is once was."

lol and they show some breeds in cages; in other countries the judge has to keep x feet away from the dog ... I guess I find this kind of airborne hysteria funny

And also this little gem Fantastic!! Can't wait for that breed to reach the shores and the bogans line up for them most old breeds are like that. Not that I'd rely on wiki as a resource on any given day but unchanged breeds do have traits which require rearing mindful of the above.

Does anyone know Denis Cody - dog trainer? Would also like to know if any trainers had a response to Denis' letter to Dogs Victoria (p.12 January issue) which essentially described the use of choke chains as antiquated and foolish, and that play and food reinforcement are the hallmarks of modern advanced training methods. I see how many peple and their dogs suffer daily from the foolishness of the 'slip' and 'choke' or correction collar as a training device. If you can show me a dog club class where more than 50% of owners actually know how to use one, then it is a remarkable club. You would be blind to think that is is a truly successful training device particularly in the hands of inexperienced dog owners.

Aye Erny I don't know, I can't see the forest for the trees (and its Friday night yay!)

See I read it like this: Yes Erny, but no one said the advice began and ended online - only: "given what you say and given breed - it would be of benefit for you to see / speak to x."

Rachelle if you are ever in Victoria and want to add some practical experience to your course studies there are a few working ASDs in Victoria which I think would be educational for you to meet. There is a Turkish famer who would benefit from your knowledge poor dear loves his 'special dogs' and discusses them with myself - another failed incompetent handler. So please when you are in Vic don't be a stranger educate us deluded and uneducated, on some 'difficult' dogs apply your theory show us how it all "comes down to patience, perseverance, knowledge about dogs & correct handler and training methods. Perhaps it comes from your own failings as a trainer (or experiences with other trainers) and you would like to think that there was another reason other than lack of competence (ie it's just the way the breed is...it's untrainable, unfixable" It will be fantastic.

Rachelle what state do you live in? 'tis impossble for me to discuss the colours and hues of the moon with you, if from where you live the moon has only ever been one colour