BJean

Breeders are going to have to peer out of their comfort zone or consider other breeders' worlds, maybe even get over themselves a little, otherwise you will be showing against yourself. Maybe this is okay for those in an older generation but for those who would like showing to be an activity option in their retirement age, no compromise is not good and will engender no future for the sport.

What do you have so far? can you share the sire and dam name?

well as a breeder my website is my expression and history of the dogs, its an online family history of sorts. So while readers have 'what they like to see' (and I do too), I also dont mind what breeders actually have for their website, because I regard breeder websites as individual expression and not for the sole purpose of entertaining or meeting the requirements of others. Ultimately if I want any information I can contact the breeder and ask. Yes it would make it nice if the website had all this information predicted and presented for me, but breeder websites are for breeders too - and its about their dogs and them, not you :)

I assume this was a rhetorical question sheridan :)..... Judges must have bred at least one champion to be able to begin the process of becoming a judge in this country. HO my DOG? Im eligible definitely worth traveling for! :D

:)

sorry I re- edited and had to top up water troughs and did not check the post again this is what is wrong with neuter classes and the objective of encouraging future breeders and participants. Breeders assess a dog in parts, pet owners assess their dog on the whole with their heart. of course breeders do this also! but we are conditioned to seeing weaknesses and strengths. This is taught over time. That is why new participants also need to be given time to learn and see the why behind the what. The assessment of the neuter class needs to accommodate pet owners, but like Junior Handlers classes, neuter classes need to be part of a championship show. Perhaps assessment based on conformation and showmanship, to enable the pet owner and their neuter exhibit some lassitude. Everyone enjoys receiving credit for their dog, and I think judges and breeders have the capacity to judge and regard a neuter breed class in the spirit in which it is intended - to encourage new participants. If you have dog breeders and pet owners at shows together, you will work towards removing the perceived divide. I believe the neuter class has the potential to do this.

I know exhibitors take their showing very seriously which is fabulous and fascinating to watch, and I understand in some breeds show results are the main platform for assessment. However, the attitude that neuter exhibits need to be judged with the same level of scrutiny as the entire exhibits, is a retardant to the objective of encouraging new participants. Immediately 'fun' and enjoyment is removed from the whole exercise. Pet owners are not going to obsess (in general) over as much detail as breeders. It should not matter if the neutered entry or 'neuter champion' would not win in the breeding class <maybe the neuter assessment criteria can be a combination of breed standard and showmanship / team effort etc >. All breeders know that there is variance in litters, so what does it matter if a pet owner's neuter exhibit's bite is not as it should be, or if its coat is mismarked or whatever else. Happy healthy dog, engaged owner, participating at a State CC event with their dog ... with council desexing requirements where else will new exhibitors and new breeders come from? Plus there is kudos to the breeder of a neuter-pet-champion also. Immediately a potential puppy home sees the breeder of Champions and Neuter/Pet champions as a breeder who breeds dogs that 'regular people' own. ['regular people' because legislation and State CCs responses are increasing divides between pedigree breeders and 'dog lovers'.] I don't intend to diminish the seriousness or importance of conformation showing, but dont forget about the social side and branching out aspects also. In its current format the neuter classes will never be significant because it is still tailored towards those already engaged, and not towards the intended target - non participating pedigree dog owners. Just as the Junior Handler class fosters future handlers, the neuter class needs to do this also. Also, breed standards and breeder technicalities are boring to pet owners :) . Breed standards only become interesting when your interest in a breed increases. Shows are a great way to generate this interest. But State CCs need to get potential participants active and engaged with pedigree dogs and showing, and this will not happen and is not happening with the current format.

To encourage owners outside of state CCs to show their dogs as neuters, the Main Registration requirement needs to be relaxed. Here, LR means - sold as a pet, not for breeding. Show dogs and breeding dogs are not one and the same. And generally show dogs (Central Asian and Anatolian) require a certain temperament and show exposure that a good proportion of the dogs dont have or will not have access to. So the only way more pets would be shown from this sector is if pet owners could take their pup to the show on LR.

Gary Stapleton (narre warren north) Barry Haywood for anything to do with bones and joints (cranbourne south) Harry Corbet (Bayswater) Stuar mason (monash) clients: central asian and anatolian

The All Breed KCC and Bulla shows in the Dogs Vic November and December gazette did not have neuter classes - but some of the country all breed shows did. Good to learn that when they do, it is 18/18a

I know owners who would show their desexed dog ... maybe there could be neuter in group and neuter in show, with the neuter class being 'open' ie 6 months and over. I dont think the age divisions in the neuter class are necessary.

this and this WRT what to import first: import what is in your heart to import. why? because lives change and you may never have progeny from what you import. Also I dont think AI and cesarians are the best way to start the breeding life of a bitch. Frozen import semen is not a stud dog until it exists as puppies on the ground that you bred. Import semen is a gamble. Breeding can get so technical of what matches here and what doesn't and then when it comes to import all and sundry have an opinion, makes it so complicated you can lose track of the why. You're not changing the world or a breed, you are doing what you think is best in one instance. I wouldn't have said this a few years ago, but dont take the breeding import thing so seriously. The breed is not on your shoulders, only your dogs and your happiness. Import and breed what you like. Good luck :) ps: At a show yesterday, the CC line up for Dalmations caught my eye. And I thought, don't they look magnificent! :) and then later a shihtzu was paraded for BIG (I think). Another fantastic pedigree tribute to dogs. Anyway point is, I'm sure there was lots of technical analysis and opinions behind their exhibition and creation, but it is the quiet marvels, the appreciation of a breed that keeps it going. As a breeder, you may *think* you can control this or have more of an important role than you do. but you don't. The breed is always in the hands and eyes of others.

oh what becks said! :)

bikkies and porridge are ceareal carbohydrates and better suited to human babies. Milk with a mince is better for baby puppies, you can use a blender or mash it with a fork. Puppies that only need a top up you can try using goats milk, or goats milk with a dash of nutrigel. Good luck baby puppies ... squishables!

I dont think it was fading puppies either. Usually it affects younger puppies, and they 'fade', ie get weaker visibly over at least 12 - 24 hours. I have and bitches on ABs with puppies and the puppies have been okay. The worming sequence, as I understand :) : Mother of puppies was wormed before birth (how soon before birth?) The mother was wormed again within one week after birth, the puppies then received more wormer again approximately one week later, and then the puppies received more wormer two weeks later (4 weeks old). Puppies started dying. Did the vet rule our canine herpes virus?

Troy puppy womer (Piperazine) only treats roundworm. Given the mother's history you would expect some worms to be in the puppies - although not necessarily visible to the naked eye? Did you use a microscope?

It sounds like a toxic reaction to the wormer. I understand the situation is very upsetting but I dont think the dog's situation ie sire/dam combination caused what you are seeing. If anything, I would say her immune would be more likely robust to carry pregnancy and have five puppies.

Some of the Maremma I have seen at shows do bark and carry on but that is what I expect of them. Anatolian and Central Asian tend to bark less. Usually its a stare and a snarl and then its on. Employed Anatolian and Central Asian guardian dogs generally guard what they are on or live in and therefore anything in that area. They also have their personal space and there is a perimeter unknowns cannot enter. This perimeter exists everywhere all the time.

woops I missed this :) Yes, when we show the Anatolian in Vic, there is one male and one female we have to keep separate and need a lot of distance between. I do not have a central asia adult that is suitable for show ie acceptance of handling by the judge and close quarters of other dogs and curious onlookers. As a puppy/junior they were okay but not on maturity.

Wouldn't a guard dog of a castle or fort be required to hold it's ground with physical force? ie: to step up unassisted and against the human as an adversary? I do not see this in the Pyreneans at shows :) And its probably a good thing, time and needs pass. Maybe 100 - 200 years of selective breeding has done a lot, maybe the less reactive Pyreneans were chosen because they were naturally more subordinate to people. So they could accept and be docile enough for Market Day and guarded with bark and intimidation not active confrontation. Maybe the dogs taken to Market Day in 1900 were not the 'best' guardian on the home front. ie the dog you call upon to be by your side if your life is at risk. What was the population of Pyreneans like after WWI and WWII? ETA: re bold part, just read your comment above - yes it makes sense and the Pyreneans at shows are behaving exactly as they should as their response is developed to have an on / off but also the Pyrenean response is not as combative :)

Let's be clear about guardian capacity and capability, and what this means wrt the instinctive guardian dog, cf the dual pet guardian show dog. I dont know what the Maremma and Pyrenean ultimate guardian response is (and perhaps this is the point of difference), but I do know the type of Anatolia and Central Asia dog that you can put your hand in fire (as we say) the dog will not back down, do not have an off duty switch or 'stay at home guardian demon'. These dogs do not go to shows. If Anatolian and Central Asia do not have individuals who will not back down, AND have an off duty switch ie accept intrusions at shows, then Maremma and Pyrenean do not either. The dogs that go to shows are not in the same instinctive response category as the former. Intolerance and reactivity and the self assured nerve to assert their will over a situation are innate. Full kudos to the show maremma, pyrenean, anatolian etc but lets not pretend their full stop guardian peers, also don a show cape and have a stay at home guardian demon. It is at odds with everything this type of dog is, and the expectations required of them.

I don't think that is a fair assessment. Although Anatolian are not the same as Maremma, the ASD we take to the show lunge and growl occasionally, and it would be a mistake to attribute their behaviour to poor handling. In fact it takes a lot of handling to get them to the show all day and there is a lot going on that the casual observer may not notice, or even be accustomed to with their own breed. There is also no off time either. You have to watch the dogs the entire time.

The tablets are not for sale to Australia, export only. i will send you the link in a pm greytmate.

most whingers have no appreciation or understanding of what a working dog is, or how suburb house rearing differs to working rural rearing. they make comments ohhh ahh look at the difference, yet most of them could not handle, contain, or live with a working minded dog. yes there are differences and tweaks, big woop. Own what you like and keep it at that. Pet dogs change from their working counterparts because the pet home is not equipped for anything more. it's not a slight on the pet home, but reality of 21st century. look what they have done, look what we all have done. And hold off on the whinge. Because unless you breed or rear and deal with the public pet sector and legislators maybe it's not as simple as you write it should be :) Cheers hope everyone is enjoying their day of digest :) I'd be digesting more but one of the critters ate my guylian tray of chocolates! bah lucky I still have the chrissy cookies for my cuppa! :D

BlackJaq I have sent you a PM about this dog