BJean

Not quite the same - temp testing as described above takes the dog at face value, it doesn't attempt to then extrapolate from the dog presented today with what might be produced tomorrow. The development of an accurate behavioural assessment that measures these characteristics in dogs would assist in identifying dogs best suited for living in Australian society and could be used to select breeding dogs. So already they are going in with a premise of what they think is ideal. I think that should read: if you're a PHD student, and you're a welfare scientist, and you're aware that all the existing methods of behavioural assessments dont fit in with your social mapping and prescription. So lets produce the science to back up our ethos so we can then lobby and put it into legistalation .....................................

Every dog can express aggression. Just as every human can express sadness or rage. Raise differently and your Akita could present as a fear biting neurotic mess. You are your genes but your development as a person and how you communicate with the world around you is ulitmately determined by your experience and your perception of success and failure.

how? explain how a test that is going to measure raw material will work ie be reliable and predicatble when the dog is a combination of raw material + human experience / upbringing. what relevance will your subject datat/analysis have if a dog is presented for temperament assessment that is an angel with its handler but to anyone else it is not little miss amicable? so right there the dna collection point is going to be tarnished. I'm surprised that people can read the preamble for the survey and surmise 'yep, that makes sense'. ???

is at total odds with: ??? a gene for happiness? Yes you do, the owners have told you in previous surveys - the dogs which are deemed more amicable by their owners are those which have had more training, ie more owner - effort / interaction.. But you want to know if you can somehow produce a dog or a soft toy with batteries so that it is fool proof to the idiot. then you have prescribed animal welfare realised, as the idiot dog matches the idiot owner and then there is no more suffering.

I'm not convinced that I didn't kill a pup :D so I won't tube feed. But I will take the pup to my vet to tube feed for me.

Given you have a puppy on full registry your lack of contact is probably a cause of concern for the breeder - that there is something wrong with the puppy and/or that they made the wrong decision wrt choice of puppy owner. I'm sure if you send the breeder a one liner - "all is well, puppy is great" + a photo you will find the frequency of the emails ceases to be an issue. You know when you're trying to get hold of someone, you keep ringing right? well its the same kind of concept

What type of show preparation is required?

! yep I am probably protective and defensive of my breed CAO were mentioned as quite distinct from the other LGD breeds (like Anatolian, Kangal, Maremma) due to the current CAO bloodlines in Australia. There have been a few incidents of the dogs protecting their owners, so I think that for the most part it holds. I suppose what the dogs notch up as experience wrt dealing with humans also contributes to their response - I do think a dog gets more confident dispatching/contending with humans, when it has done so successfully (in the dog's mind) before - but this is only my theory from observation. CAO are used as trained PP dogs in other countries - They are popular in Russia, Ukraine and Romania, and increasingly in USA - dont think they are suited to Australia though and they are also not marketed as being so.

Yep

If you have a LGD with a nice temperament who is socialised and trained, then you are not taking a liability out into the public, are you? Isn't that assumed? Isn't that assumed to apply to ANY breed?

Are you one of those people who caution, "look out there's a Karabash coming"? Haha, you must be constantly looking over your shoulder then! No not really, just constantly surprised at the ignorance some people show towards the breed. You're winding me up, right? You summed up everything I was trying to say about the difference between trained personal protection dogs and LGDs in your last post. My post summed up a certain type of LGD very well. Not breed, but a certain mindset of dog. You described Anatolians as a liabilty out in public. I asked you which Anatolians you were talking about, because if you are going to badmouth a breed I'd like to know the context of your experience which shaped that opinion. Actually no that still wouldn't have helped An unsocialised working Anatolian is not even relevant for the comparison - as with any unsocialised dog you'd more than likely ellicit a fear response. lol, just leave the Anatolians, hey.

Are you one of those people who caution, "look out there's a Karabash coming"? No dont do that Aidan - which Anatolians are you talking about? I missed the part in the OP and later thread development when it became about decrying Anatolians as unstable and unsuitable as family dogs to go out in public. ploise explayne. eta: OH HANG ON, I GET IT - YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT KANGALS NOT ANATOLIANS!

Same as Redrob BB would love to join you for a November litter but can only confirm with 'maybe' for now

my Kimba is a good boy should note however that the ASD I mentioned for Jeff is a working dog and not suited as a pet in any circumstance. *why* I think Central Asians as a breed are different to a lot of others is that the current CAO in Australia are Russian / Kazakhstan working and security lines. But as Aphra so well put, LGDs are not meant for PP work because they dont have the capacity for the preciison training that malinois, GSD, rotties do have. An LGD wont protect their owner, or rather what they perceive as 'theirs' on their owners terms but on the dogs terms. So yes they will protect thier owner, but maybe you wont be able to call the dog off or maybe they will overreact to an annoying teen or go for a lost trespasser as if they were an immediate threat to your life - and for that reason they can be more of a responsibility than your average guardian breed. Initally their protective instincts read like a good thing, but any pups which i think will hold thier ground and will 'protect' i place to experience homes in rural homes away from the suburbs where they are less likely to comes across many people etc fwiw i don't think there are many dogs that will protect without training and those that do wont protect in a measured way - instead they wil go overboard and do too much bcz they are doing it offf their own bat and not part of a trained response.

okay i have one i was actually going to get the dog worked with by k9force bcz there are some things i needed to knwo about him wrt reactivity and other people cool!

just because I am procrastinating writing a report I will step in and say that a central asian WILL protect its owners and you can rely on them to do that - the guarantee is inherent in what the dog is - however you would need to be aware that you cannot train the level of the dogs defence response ie: okay fido that's enough now you have the threat pinned the complication with the cao defence response would be that the intruder would suffer lacertaions etc (fwiw a cao owner was allowed to keep their dogs when the dogs responded in defence of their owner - the vicitm was in hospital for a while though.) I'm not advocating a cao to the OP, just pointing out that if someone wanted a reliable dog that they could guarantee would protect them if they were under threat, then a central asian would do the job.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? Owner, breeder and wayward exhibitor 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Russia is recognised as the country of origin for the Central Asian Ovcharka (The Russian name 'Ovcharka' translates from Russian as 'Shepherd's dog'). However it would be more accurate to specify that the CAO is native to quite a number of countries. Some of these countries were part of the former USSR when the native dog populations of Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tadjikistan were being researched and described by Russian scientists and the first ever standard for the breed was developed. The territory of Central Asia includes many countries, some of which consist mostly of deserts or steppes, and others of high mountains. It is very diverse not only in climate and landscapes but also in the cultures of the native peoples. But what is common between all these regions, is the extreme living conditions for both human and dog - constant struggle for food, harsh cold winters, very hot and dry summers and an abundance of both large and small predators. For many reasons, such as difficult accessibility and political impediments, Central Asian countries remained relatively isolated and, therefore, almost uninfluenced by the changes taking place in the outside world. During wars, revolutions and government changes, these dogs kept doing their jobs - guarding flocks from predators and houses from thieves, and following caravans along the trade routes. In the most native cultures dogs were not part of the family, often left fending for themselves, keeping busy with their own lives, not bothering people, usually resting in the shade during the heat of the day. Only occasional explosions of fights between large males would attract attention to the dogs, entertaining men. Unlike many other old breeds, that have been lost somewhere along the history path when their services were no longer required, the Central Asian has never been out of a job: at all times big ferocious dogs were considered an important asset by every proprietor, no matter what his possessions were - huge flocks of sheep, or just a small house, or a beautiful daughter. This is probably why time made almost no impact on the appearance and temperament of the CAO. Instead, generation after generation, century by century, they've been slowly and thoroughly polished by mother nature with little help from man, for the skills needed to survive and for doing their job - outstanding intellect, combined with highly instinctive and intuitive behaviour, enormous physical strength and size, adaptability, hardiness and a very stable nervous system. 3. How common is it in Australia? The Central Asian is very rare in Australia and is relatively unknown outside dog circles. However, its virtues as a stock guardian and family guardian has engendered significant interest, and succesful stories of Central Asians living with their families in rural Australia continue to promote the breed. 4. What is the average lifespan? 12 - 15 years. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? The CAO character is one of calm stoicism, unflappable temperament and insurmountable tolerance to those in its care. Never a dog to lose patience with its human family, undemanding even to its own detriment - the Central Asian is loyal, steadfast and inextricably duty bound and will give its life in carrying out its purpose as guardian. The history of the Central Asian is the quintessance of its character and qualities - the dogs today are very much as the dogs of their past: protectors of their human family and executioner of guard duties, killer of wolves and fighter of foe. One cannot annex the dogs history in an effort to make the breed more suitable to modern Western ideals and popular requirements - to own a Central Asian requires an understanding and acceptance of the the land and rigours which formed and preserved them. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Ideally the Central Asian home should be one where there is ample space for the dog to move around at its own leisure. Although there are individuals who do very well in a suburban setting, an opitmum environment for the CAO is on a rural property / acreage. In a suburban setting an adult CAO requires 1 - 2 hours walk per day; ideally exercise morning and evening. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Being a natural dog with strong instincts to protect and defend, the Central Asian is not the dog for first time dog owners, or those unfamiliar with dog behaviour. Although undemanding and extremely gentle with those they know, the physical strength (males 30 - 34", 70-85kgs; females 29 - 32", 55- 65kg) and instinctive responses of the Central Asian, require an owner able to forsee cause and effect. QTNS 8 - 12 to follow

yeah I know will get to it soon :D I'm using a litter of 9 Anatolians as an excuse for my tardiness that and I'm wary of a CAO breed info, with a disproportionate amount of my bias

lol

I have a litter atm and there are two individuals (of 9) who really snarl and give a good go when they are picked up, touched, removed from their mother etc when they dont want to be, they will also gve a growl when you walk into the room and they are taken off guard. of course the type of owner will determine their fate and the potential they reach but I would say that these individuals will mature to have a high propensity for aggression in certain situtations, in keeping with their breed sire line. An owner wont remove this trait, only manage it so that they respect their owner, but respect to all other animal kind will be earned, not a given. but maybe this is what the study was saying?

hostility to strangers is what allows some dogs to work ie to carry out thir purpose. without that innate ability to confront and contend, they cannot do the jobs that are expected of them. Likewise dogs that don't have this capacity, cannot do the jobs that "big dogs with extreme protective behaviour" are expected to do. Breeders aren't being bad eggs. They are in fact being good breeders, by keeping their breed(s) sound and steady, though yes with a temperamental capacity very different to many other breeds of dogs, such as your everyday labardor

and this one?

Anatolian - COMARKAAN

Anatolian - KUTAHYA

Heya S&T have sent you a PM