BJean

Well done Mum. Thanks BB, yeah about tiime hey

No worries SBT, pls don't beat yourself up!!! Unfortunately, I have to announce that my smallest yellow girl went to the bridge this afternoon. I worked on her for a while when she was born as she was quite slow to start. She's been fine, up and feeding with the others until lunchtime today. Interestingly, when we had an ultrasound on the mother, we found one pup smaller than the others which had a slower heart rate.... we can now confirm that this was most likely her. RIP little angel... RIP Best wishes for the remaining puppies

Thanks SB Ordinarily I dont think this dog would need a teaser but he is getting weaker and has been given not long to live So I think better to try and get a bitch in season for best chance of collection being possible.

URGENT Are there any breeders with a bitch in season in QLD - Brisbane, Gold Coast, Nerang, Casino (NSW)) - Who could help with an emergency collection from an unwell dog? Ideally a bitch attending one of the repro vets in Brisbane, Gold Coast, Nerang, Casino and close to or in her fertility window. Thankyou

Plenty of research out there showing that the emotional state of a mother will impact on the emotional state (or personality) of the newborn. Emotional states lead to behavioural responses ie possibility of "dominance" Emotional state is not the same as base personality. A dam's emotional state can impact this but it will not change it. Emotional states lead to behavioural responses ie possibility of "dominance" What do you mean by this, please exaplin with an example, thankyou A true dominant individual would be as I describe: A dominant dog is a dog with adaptive intelligence, will power and the mental and physical nouse to back that mindset up. From my observations, dominant dogs dont exhibit leadership they assert their will power and what they want if they want other dogs (and / or humans) to do a cetain thing, they wil push this but that is not leadership. They are born this way. No different to any other base personality. ... an individuals belief in their abiltiy to assert itself over another . How so? From which other animals will the baby puppy learn from? Why wouldn't all the pups in a litter learn the same lesson? Why does this pup interpret its interaction with the outside world in the way it does? Dominance is not just bound to behaviour. It is how the dog sees the world and its place in it. It is intrinsic. What possibilities do you think can create a dominant dog? Genes are the biggest influence on a dog's base temperament ie: what it is born with you only have to go over a selection of breeds/bloodlines some breeds have dominance bred in them; they need this perspective it is part of what they are just as some breeds have dominance bred out of them. Perception of rank is part of dominance; on their own dogs need a perception of rank in order to operate. Eg: The voilition to shepherd a group of goats towards water or away from a threat requires the dog to have a sense of willpower about what it wants to do and what it wants others to do. If we look at breed traits - why can t a great dane do the work of an Anatolian? Why can an Anatolian guard on its own isolated against human and animals but the great dane can not? Similarly why cant an anatolian be expected to be as tolerant as a great dane? imo what sets the general mindset of these two breeds apart, is selective breeding for/against perception of rank / dominance. To an extent, the perception of dominance also impacts aggression, as on one level they are interelated.

oh gawd and she is training and preaching to others ...

I'm studying craniosacral therapy at the moment (for humans) and there is a big focus on understanding embryology and foetal development and the potential impact on health, emotions, and physical issues. This is an area where science is only now just starting to understand part of what happens. Genetics actually plays no role in the first several days after conception, so there is some other driving force that tells the cells what to do. How this relates to "dominance", well trauma (and this could be considered just a bump to big emotional situations) at any stage of life (particularly early on) has the possibility to have a huge impact on physiology and create changes in physical and emotional responses to things that are related (or completely unrelated in many situations). How we adapt to situation and whether our body is given the oppertunity to heal itself emotionally or physically plays a big role.Dominance can be caused from a hole variety of things, but for me how I respond is in trying to create a willing partnership in the relationships that are occuring, not to focus on the conflicts I would create by assuming I (or others) should be more dominant. This assumes that dominant dog is an aberration, that had it not been for inutero circumstacne a,b,c the dog would be something else. What things can cause dominance?

Quite possibly, but learning begins from the womb and I wonder whether this can contribute to much of the dominance responses (particularly if they are influenced by the emotional state that the mother was in during and after pregnancy. The other thing that still applies is that genetic or not there is still a learning factor that applies to these behaviours and may just make the task a little harder whether reward or correction based techniques are used. I'm actually using less behavioural training and more self awareness exercises such as the TTouch work and getting far greater results - the learning context has a huge impact. Can you give an example of a dominant response and how this may have been influenced by the dam?

Quite possibly, but learning begins from the womb and I wonder whether this can contribute to much of the dominance responses (particularly if they are influenced by the emotional state that the mother was in during and after pregnancy. The other thing that still applies is that genetic or not there is still a learning factor that applies to these behaviours and may just make the task a little harder whether reward or correction based techniques are used. I'm actually using less behavioural training and more self awareness exercises such as the TTouch work and getting far greater results - the learning context has a huge impact. Make which task a little harder? Learning begins in the womb, yes. But the learning is tempered by the genetic disposition of the individual. I do not think the mother's emotional state during pregnancy will impact an indivudal's base temperament. If I take a litter of 8 pups, all different personalities, maybe one is true dominant I do not think the mother's emotional state will impact on this. The mother's emotional state is also a reflection of her personality, which is why often dominant lineage begets another.

Yes exactly Just because a dog keeps trying it on with its owner doesn't mean that particular dog is 'dominant', just that the dog can see leeway and opportunity in what it does and doesn't have to do. A dominant dog wont always challenge its owner, often that is sorted from the outset, but the owner does have to remember what the dog is; you cant ask it to do things in a way you may ask another dog; you cant be lazy with its instruction, or force it do to something - it is a strong bond of mutual respect. imo the dominant dog makes the most loyal and intelligent dogs; they are the most clear with their intentions and where they are at. agreed dominance does not mean hard to train, my true dominant dog is my most obedient and attentive.

I don't completely agree, particularly with possessive aggression. In observations of wild wolves a more submissive wolf will resource guard from a more dominant wolf and this is frequently accepted by the more dominant wolf. In my main 'pack' of 3 anatolian females and one central asian male the young female will resource guard from the other more assertvie dogs but when not 'frequently accepted', the older and more assertive central asian male literally knocks/throws her out the way and takes her food. Resource guarding works as a bluff but only when the dominant dog does not really want to assert their way. My other group which is true dominant anatolian male and alpha central asian female they cannot be fed within 50 metres of each other or a serious fight will explode. They are both very aggressive when it comes to their possessions.

From my observtions, dominant dogs dont exhibit leadership they assert their will power and what they want if they want other dogs (and / or humans) to do a cetain thing, they wil push this but that is not leadership. In a dogs mind, imo, power is very much part of dominance or an individuals belief in their abiltiy to assert itself over another - that belief can exist menatlly as well as physically but the dominant dog will always back up the mental with the physical, because it believes in itself and its right of way. fwiw a dog trying it on with its owner is not 'dominant' that can merely be (and often is) a dog taking up the slack. A dominant dog does not make the rules rather it sets them; people are not at ease with the term 'dominant' because of their own human connotations - but 'power' - making another appease ones willpower is part of the psyche of a dominant dog. you only have to watch a dominant dog shoudler down another or stand up to the world around them, or stare down a human with intent to see that power and force are very much at play. (nb why this would then apply to the human-dog relationship I dont know, as I said it seems people go bananas when they see or hear the word dominance). Probably because true dominant dogs are not that common, that owners/trainers/theorists can misunderstand or misuse the word - apply it where it is not really warranted or where the dogs motivation is not understood. But it is no wonder that many pet owners / pet trainers claim they have never seen it or it doesn't exist - because it rarely does, in its true form, in most companion breeds. dominance gone wrong? I dont know what that means a dominant dog has not gone wrong bcz its holds up the couch or what it considers theirs - imo dominance is a unique mindset that needs to be managed. in my breeds a dominant individual will go for a person it does not consider relevant if that person asks them to get off the bed. couch - that wouldn't be out of place or 'gone wrong' that would just be the dog asserting its willpower over another and meaning it because its birthright wired it that way. territorial barking imo has nothing to do with dominance, that's other breed traits / drives at work. actually in one of my breeds I say the more a dog barks, the more warninng it gives, the less nerve a dog has. By definition a dog with no nerve can't be dominant. A dog I would describe as dominant does not give much warning bark at all. Too full of itself and its own ability for that. A dominant dog is a dog with adaptive intelligence, will power and the mental and physical nouse to back that mindset up. dominance imo, is the way a dog sees the world and its place in it. A dominant dog is just more prepared to assert itself over another. And they are born this way.

Zug Zug, how would you define / describe a dominant dog? What behaviours do dominant dogs exhibit?

Re sounding like a H20 bottle: last litter a young puppy became sick at approx 6 days - I bottle fed and the pup aspirated - sounded like a H20 bottle - i gave amoxcyllin formula and glucose liquid to keep the pup going but that did not stave off pneumonia - ultimately the sick puppy had a clavulox injection and then was on clavulox for a few days - no problems after that. became a little dynamo ETA: my typos are atrocious and getting worse!!!

Divetelact would not have made them sick; may have given the pups the runs (as with all forumlas) but you descrbe an infection ... has their temp gone down? For sick babies I use clavulox, if none on hand I remix human amoxcylin to a soluble formula; very sick pups too weak to nurse I give glucose and antibiotics; if otherwise healthy puppies get the runs I give them scourban; if no scourban I try protexin; but you cant use protexin while using Abs. Young pups need warmth and to keep their fluids up - you can maintain them on this for a while ... L:) NB: Glucose solution to maintain hydration: 1 part glucose to three part H2O if no powdered glycogen available can use sugar. For mastiff size pups, you can give the sick puppy 1mL of glucose solution every three hours.

How did you feed them formula? Did you bottle feed? If so did you burp them? L:)

Oh for sure dog welfare rocks my boat but I dont call discussions on the the word dominance and wafty nuances on how it might be described a scientific description.

It's amazing and amusing to see so many attempts to 'describe' dog behaviour; but really I suppose whatever rocks peoples boat. This is one of my favs: Personally, I prefer to describe my relationship with Ranger as a partnership. Ranger is expected to abide by my rules because we live in a human society and I’m the native guide. I like to imagine that if we lived in canine society I’d be as willing to follow his lead as he is to follow mine. When we meet strange dogs on our walks I try to follow his lead on the principle that he’s the native guide to canine behavior. Bcz that's a lot more plausible than imagining there might be a hierachial system in a pack animal

Anatolian puppy pics @ 4 and 5 days old, all well - their mum has milk now and taken over full time care

How thin did your dogs get? How much condition do you like your dogs to have? Can you feel their ribs?

Pretty much what Jed said - I was a step behind you - I found a dog on limited regster in a pet home and the breeder was no longer with the VCA. Essentially you can breed with the dog as long as you have the breeders's support. So: Track down the breeder and get in contact with them. Tell them you want to use a dog they bred. Make sure you can tell them WHY. If the dog is still in the breeder's name, then pay the breeder's membership so they can sign off on the breeding. If the dog is in the owner's name, pay their membership.

Is the goats milk getting a workout? Did the ultrasound show more than two? U/s showed four but now it's apparent that the girls were counted twice. So the two pups on the other side, were just tiger and dragon being April fools day tricksters Yep the goats milk is getting a work out, but if their mum's milk doesn't come down soon I'll have to switch to biolac. i would be keeping them on goats milk myself.... Are you using those tablets that you told me about before? they worked a treat for Minnos but took about 5 days to kick in. Yes, but the only impact of Metomide I can see are negative side effects in Storm's behaviour there is milk there, quite a few bags full, but a potential unwanted side effect of prog supplementation, is lack of milk letdown. Just need something to plug in the secret code so the milk is released ...

As I have said before, puppies are not a clean slate. They have potential to be what their genes dictate, and hopefully that potential is good and will be reached, and no unexpected bad experiences shape the dog. It is important the the breeder gives you as much info as possible about Christian, but there are ways of knowing more. Dogs can be tested out, to see their reactions and gauge how they would be likely to react to things in your home. Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does. Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does. Give the dog a pigs' ear or similar treat to chew. Can the breeder take the treat away from him without him snapping or growling? If they can, can you? (Do not allow the kids to be near the dog at any time while eating). If he growls or bites, I would say unsuitable for a home with kids (or maybe even adults unless he gets some training). Have the kids sit quietly and call Christian. Does he come over to them? Ask the kids to run around in a big circle around the dog, and get them to squeal and giggle. Is the dog scared of that? Does it get overexcited and jump on the kids or nip? At what level of the kids activity does the dog start to get overexcited or scared? Yes, it feels foolish to do these silly tests, and doing tests isn't foolproof. But doing tests like these will give you more of an idea of Christian's temperament than just patting and playing with him will. Goodluck. Dont know about other breeders, but I wouldn't let a visiting home do that. One, bcz I dont know how the visiting home will react and two, I dont want to be reinforcing any not so good ideas in my pups' head. I dont think the average home can go about temp testing, bcz they wont really be looking at everything anyway and no way would most breeders let mr/ms public try out a new idea (such as the temp test above) with their pup

Not really, but that's a whole other thread. and yep you guessed it, im too tired to go into it. got pups to feed around the clock and not going to delve into dog psyche today.

Yeah so it aint oversupply. Rehomeable dogs are pts, but that is due to pound/sheltyer operational issues not oversupply. Too tired to rewrite, there's the same dialogue going on in the rescue thread.