BJean

Hey steve what happened with your tiny maremma? I have a tiny anatolian. Smallest pup I have ever seen and the lightest birth weight. But vigorous and strong; compact size :D . I have named her Mimi

We got to view his mother. She seemed more like a male-sized husky compared to other huskies I've seen. However we didn't get to see the father. Probably your puppy is older than 6 weeks. If you cant trust the breeder that your pup is pure bred then you cant trust the real age of your puppy either. Some byb breeders will tell people the pup is younger than it is to get out of the requirement of vaccinating and m/chipping the pup. very cute pup though, whatever his age!

From Bunnings you can get cargo barriers and they are around $60. or dog barrier thingys for the rear sections of 4WDs and stations wagons.

this is the little tacker in question at a few weeks old will let you know what eventuates

What I love about the article is a trainer from QLD (Melissa Bruce) telling the RAAF how to train their dogs. So she trains pets on the sunshine coast, big deal. And owns an Alaskan. I guess that makes her qualified and an expert with aggression. whoah how bittthcy am I? :D btw how come I haven't been invited to or know about the cult - WTF is that huski? hmmm???!

Yes true. And nice FB page also. Got a like from me Huski

or own a dog that would benefit from one?

A lot of previous German Shepherd owners become Anatolian Shepherd owners, although there's more to each breed than noble, handsome good looks

There are conflicting views, as he has never been put to stud, some have said that as it is a once off collection he would be put under. But this may be different for different vets, I can only go by what I have been told. That's really funny. Are you serious? Who told you that?

Well you get experience in the smug stakes, that's for sure.

Yes, i realise the difference between the two. And it is actually a requirement of QLD that this be done, I personally have just seen the paperwork on registering a litter (prior to any of them even being sold). AND it is a legal requirement in many councils of QLD (including the one the breeder is in), that every pup must be microchipped by 8 weeks, and must NOT be sold until chipped. (age doesn't matter here as he could be 5 yrs old and if I sell him I have to chip him if not done already) ... so when did you go about correcting the illegal status of your non-microchipped dog? You're really clutching at straws here.

basically you're trying to get out of what you agreed to do and you want a forum feel good boost to make you feel good about reneging. You seem to think that because the dog wasn't chipped this somehow means you're in the right. whatever. just do what you're going to do anyway. But at least have the guts to do it on your own accord.

yes, but where are these references from?

wow, complex. Safer - For whom, to and for what?

It may be of interest to know, that in some languages there is no PC term amongst breeders for "linebreeding". Inbreeding is inbreeding. When they inbreed they're proud of it, they don't need to call it anything else than what it is. I use the term "inbred" when describing a lineage of my dogs. So I might say to someone asking about the bloodline of Dog X, that: "Dog X is inbred to Dog Y" And hence go on to explain what this means for a set of physical and temperament characteristics. K.I.S.S.

If I say, I dont have a problem, I dont have to test. I am not hiding. I'm stating a fact from the kazak field. If I say, in Kazak Alabai, it does not exist that a dog will get off a couch one day and realise its hip is out of its socket. This is fact. As plausible as it sounds for your breed, it is implausible for my breed from Kazak. (Terrain, another dog, human, or animal would have removed a 'pop out' hip well before the dog reached 12 months old.) There is no need to bring ethics and scientific tests or maybe a bit of derision into it. There is also no need to attempt to try to use an ethics calculator when comparing the different ways breeders do things. If you came to kazak you will see. You would also see that your pompous assumptions are grossly inaccurate. Left in the paddock, hormones do whatever they want and dogs breed. We see that all the time....we as humans who call ourselves breeders, have set goals for our chosen breeds to ensure that they are healthy and long lived. We manipulate mother nature everytime we do a mating. Part of the manipulation is selecting dogs without or with few faults and genetic problems as possible.

I lurved the bloodhound

In Australia, most breeders xray (I think). In Turkiye and Kazak, no. One group of dogs yes, the other group of dogs not to the same extent. But in a working context, a dog compromised wont last long anyway, high pain tolerance or not. In native environments getting on with life can mean lots of different things. Generally if a dog is sick for some reason it will succumb to secondary factors if ignoring pain from a primary factor.

I never said a breed cant have problems. I am saying all breeds should not be blanket tested because some breeds have big problems with their hips while others dont. A lot of it comes down to genetic populations and how they are selected. Also probably I am influenced by the dogs I see and know in Kazak. I know how they are culled out and I know I cant find a dog xray machine or anyone who would actually xray a dog. And I know there is no need. We can look at pure science and anatomical facts of the canine from many different ways. (Worming and vaccinations also progressively weaken a dogs system but there is not one vet in Australia who would agree with that I suppose...) Anyway interesting discussion and insight into the ethos of the general dog fraternity.

I fail to see how a dogs hips are relevant if a dog lives a full life doing what it has been bred to do. That tells me the dog had correct structure for its environment. If it did not it would not have survived. This is how it is for dogs in the field. I disagree. In the absence of vet care and human meddling, it is the only assertion to make. If there is shitty hips in a dog in its late teens, still surviving in the field, then shitty hips aren't a problem. Dogs with hitches/limps in their gait or with poor formed fronts/rears succumb easily in physical confrontations and dont get to breed one way or another. A bitch with poor knees wont hold a male to tie properly. A dog that has inefficient gait will tire long before the journey home and wont make it back to water and shade. Yes I see what you are describing above, it is another way of testing dogs when the elements and outdoor working environment cannot. imo it only prooves that all dogs should not have to be tested for ailments that they don't generally have. Do breeders think like this? I don't agree with telling pet owners false breeder categorization questions. IE: if a breeder does/ doesn't do this then it means xyz. I guess dog breeders like to tell other dog breeders how things should be done and why their way is best. I don't agree with it. So I don't subscribe to it.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? long time breed obsessive (or rather regional variants obsessive) and I'm fascinated by primitive guardian breeds and their traditional environments. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? contentious question. Fact #1 In Turkey there is no breed called Anatolian. The ANKC / FCI breed name refers to the geographical region (Anatolia) where the dogs are from. Fact # 2 There is no Kangal breeder or knowledgeable person on Kangal in Turkiye who would call Australian registered Kangals as Kangal. In Turkey, all Kangals in Australia are regarded as Anatolians (ie mixes of Aksaray, Tuzkoy, Kangal etc) Because quite simply, according to Turkish definition of what is Kangal, Australian Kangals are not Turkish Kangal because of (most importantly) physical type and lineage. Black mask has nothing to do with pure Kangal heritage. Fact # 3 In Australia, Kangals and Anatolian look the same, act the same and cannot be differentiated based on their physical appearance. So for all intents and purposes Kangal = Anatolian in Australia. If there is a Kangal breeder in Australia (or owner) or I guess enthusiast who believes otherwise. They are welcome to make comment and explain why they believe is not the case. Kangal is a regional breed or variant - depending on your definition of the term 'breed'. In Turkiye, you will also find: Tuzkoy, Aksaray, Yoruk, Akbas, Haymana and others variants (depending on the knowledge abse you speak to) (Kangal x Aksaray would be termed Turkish Coban Kopegi which is equivalent to Anatolian Shepherd0) That said, if a Tuzkoy is crossed with a Kangal and then that offspring crossed with a Kangal, for the most part, it is regarded as a Kangal. In reality the lines between the dogs of turkey are fluid and are not the definite lines most Australians understadn by the term breed. Lineage is relative. From here on in, all information is related to Australia, and the Australian context. For reasons of simplicity, pedigree accuracy and actuality: Anatolian = Kangal. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Not really. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? 9. How much grooming is required? 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

And what is the gauge of this? To desex a dog and remove the possibility of breeding will not change that the dog has crappy hips, but it will hopefully prevent more generations of same. I gauge a dogs overall health by their lineage longevity and what related dogs have died from. If I have an 16yo grand dam, running around in the field and her 12 yo son and his 5 year old son and offspring of the same that is what I guage against. I dont need a hip xray to tell me what mother nature can. I dont understand the desexing part. Because by doing our best to ensure the hip structure is as healthy as can be based on generational situations, we do our best to see that the average lifespan DOES in fact fit into those numbers. Dogs with HD, do not....so it DOES matter what the hip score is. Actually no it doesn't. If all dogs from a lineage live well into their teens and don't exhibit problems with their bone structure why does it matters what their hip score is. If a dog with a 'bad' hip score still lives into it's teens and runs with ease as far as the eye can see. Is never effected by cancer, bloat or endocrine - Why wouldn't I breed with that dog? so that the dogs CAN in fact jump and run and live out their lives, we need to know that we are not continuing to breed with less than the best possible. Without knowing for sure, we can not ensure that the dogs will be long lived and sound. I guess I'm a simpleton. If the 1st, 2nd and 3rd generational forebears have been athletic all their lives with minimal intervention, then I expect the subsequent generation will also. If forebears and related lineage have had problems, then I will also breed problems. So no more breeding from such genetic basket cases. I know a few that have stopped a line because there were too many dogs dying of bloat. They found that generations kept producing pups that had this problem, and after about four generations, realized there WAS in fact a problem....some breeders tack stomachs and keep going....some breeders cut bait and start again. This sort of situation is not that uncommon really when it comes to true protectors of a breed. Or how about the dogs with epilepsy....yes I know of a breeder that had all offspring desexed (most were as they were sold as pets anyway) when one bitch was positively diagnosed with this (seizure occuring during an MRI which was amazing for research and our breed) They contacted every owner, told them of the sibling with the condition..spayed the mother and the sister (show bitch) they kept and once again.....started over....the same has applied to people I know with dogs and cancer, or pancreatitis, or massive auto immune problems, or addisons, or cushings.....again, it's NOT uncommon for a good ethical breeder who truly cares about their chosen breed, to taks such drastic steps, even though they are not regulated to do so. Why not? In my breed...my national breed club (Canada) required hip exrays to be 'good' (OFA scheme) or better, or from OVC, the Ontario Vet College, to be 'clear of any signs of dysplasia' for breeding purposes. We needed vWD testing and no carrier/carrier were permitted to be bred together. We required annual eye testing. NO ONE in my breed questioned these requirements and all agreed it was in the breeds best interest to do our best to ensure healthy stock and the future of our beloved breed. I for one, applaud that the GSD club (although I disagree with some of their items) have put a maximum score on both hips and elbows. We here, have an average of about 5 total and 0/0 elbows, so we're not generally concerned about the number, but glad to see it in place. Pats on the backs to ANY breeder that does testing on ANY level to ensure healthy dogs, and is willing to remove something less than acceptable from their breeding program, because they KNOW that it is the right thing to do FOR THE BREED....yup...it sucks sometimes for the person.....but it's not about the people..it's about the dogs. I think carting dogs in and out of vet procedures should also be weighed up into what is overall healthy for the dog and the breed. I'm not a testing nut. I'm a global canine preservationist lineage nut. For me, if a dog is in its teens and still producing, and still surviving, and still galloping, it gets my attention.

I'm aware of HD being a health problem in smaller breeds. I wasn't aware of the particulars of the peke, but I guess now I am. Still I don't see how the particulars of the peke and breeds aforementioned, relates to all breeds.