BJean

I don't believe she will grow out of it. Submissive is just the way your dog is. Whether it's a problem or not depends on her breed and the type of dog you want/expected to have.

Maybe they mean this: http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/DM_Web/DMofGS.htm I have no experience with GSD or the above - but I looked into it when one of my old dogs damaged a disk during an altercation with another dog.

This is a very good point. not many understand the time a good breeder gives to a litter but also to maintain a kennel of quality dogs. My obsession is my sacrifice, and I work part time to maintain my creatures. But I am not an altruistic establishment. If someone wants to own one of my creatures or access breed/gene pools then there is a dollar cost. A breeder called me for a stud fee and when I told them I heard their jaw drop as it was two - three times the norm. But as I explained, I do not need your stud service, I have the dogs I want; it makes no difference to me whether you breed or not. But if you think I ask too high a price, do what I have done and then get back to me.

Yes. If the pedigree dog is what they want and fulfills their expectations. There are some things that only a good example of a particular breed will give an owner. Pride of ownership is important.

Is there a definition for 'guard dog'? thanks

What I would do depends on how the rescue group test their dogs with livestock. It would depend on the livestock I own. It would depend on my ability to train an adult dog to accept and integrate with my livestock. It would depend on the rescue dog's familiarity with a rural fencing system and if I own fowl - the rescue dog must have experience living amongst fowl. Not all livestock are created equal in the eyes of the dog. For me, these are fundamentals that precede any "WWYD".

I do not doubt. The dogs behaviour is a variable. Livestock and your resident dog compounds this variable. If your livestock includes fowl this is further compounded. If you are confident with this variable, good for you and the rescue group. The rescue dog's potential compatibility / integration with your livestock, stood out to me because you wrote "sounds promising OR can be trained". That to me does not sound as 'animal blase' as I would like an adult dog to be, when that dog is interstate and heading to my place, and intended to live in harmony with my livestock and resident dog.

I don't intend. If you know all the relevant criteria to do with dog selection and integration, then why ask for advice on what dog to choose. Yourself and the rescue group have established all there is to know about relocating an adult dog interstate, to get along with your current dog and your livestock.

What does "sounds promising" mean? What has the rescue dog done wrt livestock and what is your specific requirement? Is the rescue dog a male or female? "Sounds promising" means that the dog has been tested with animals and children, with positive outcome. These animal need to match your own animals. What animals has the dog been tested with and in what capacity? What animals do you own? That's a big 'OR'. I would not and do not rely on "sounds promising" for an interstate adult dog. In my experience dogs are very specific with the livestock they get along with. Excuse me? *turning the other cheek* Taking in an adult male from interstate when you already have a resident male, can pose problems. It doesn't matter how many dogs your own dog or the rescue dog gets along with, what matters is that the two individual dogs get along, in your dog's territory.

1. How long have the dogs been living with the othrer person. 2. Is the other person the breeder of the dogs?

What does "sounds promising" mean? What has the rescue dog done wrt livestock and what is your specific requirement? Is the rescue dog a male or female?

How about if the person asking is looking at the answer in context with the other questions asked? Potentially 20 dogs, not a member of any clubs and don't show could be enough of a reason to decide against buying from that person. Some breeds dont have breed clubs or any clubs other than the ANKC or MDBA. Some breeds showing doesn't mean much also. What is wrong with 20 dogs lol .. you see how my perspective is different because I am actively involved in breeding for a breed? Okay so take me with my Anatolian/Kangals. I have dogs here, dogs overseas and dogs in transit. If I tell you I have 20 breeding dogs and you make a judgement on that and call me unethical. That is naive and ignorant. because it tells me you have no concept of the situation in Australia & Turkiye, the gene pool, what is required to bring in new dogs and how long the process takes. But the point is, of course you are not supposed to know these things!! So why make judgements about them? To me it is nonsensical. Just as it does not make sense for me to select homes based on an arbitrary number of how many hours they work each week. Hours worked per week tells me nothing about an owner's actuality of being a good dog owner.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical. Yep, can't have it both ways. IF breeders can be choosy about their puppy buyers and make judgements on their suitability, then it has to be in reverse too. If I don't want to buy from a breeder with over X amount of dogs, that should be my choice as someone about to part with all that money. Of course it should go in reverse. But this type of question is typical PC question and the person asking generally doesn't really know what they are on about (in this context). Okay so you ask me as a breeder how many dogs I have, and I tell you 20. What does that tell you? All you can apply is a perceived idea about how many dogs an 'ethical' (sic) breeder has. It doesn't tell you about my dogs, how I breed, what type of breeder I am. You don't know the circumstance, all you have is an ideal in your head about what good breeders do. But the ideal is a long way from actuality. And so it does not serve as a good reference point. Well if 20 was over what I wanted, then it tells me you aren't the right breeder for me and I'd move on to find someone suitable? If it was a point that mattered to me. If I wanted a breeder who only bred every few years, my choice...a breeder who breeds three times a year...my choice. To reverse it again, some breeders won't sell to someone who works full time *regardless* of the ins/outs and technicalities of their personal life. They have a right to not sell to that person, and the prospective buyer has a right to filter you out based on whatever they want to. It doesn't matter at all what the right number is, if there is a right number and so on. It's not some magical past time that no one on the outside can understand. If an Owner wants to buy a puppy whose parents are predominately indoor dogs, that is their choice, and they have the right to know if this is the case, or if the breeder keeps 20 in kennels. Of course if you want to make choice based on things that have no relevance you are free to do so. A puppy buyer choosing breeders based on arbitrary numbers, is as intelligent as a breeder selecting homes where the owner works 15 hours per week. It's not some magical past time that no one on the outside can understand. Actually if you ask me how many dogs I own and apply a ethical or not judgement to that number, you do not understand what I am doing. Because quite simply, if you understood what i was doing, and what was required to do what I am doing, you would not need to ask me about numbers of dogs. It is as simple as that.

Yes. Your're not a breeder. Your understanding of what makes a good breeder and the technicalities of what I do is limited - unless you are heavily involved in the dog world in another capacity. Okay so you ask me how many dogs I own. As a non breeder it means you have a pre-conceived idea about what is an appropriate number of dogs for me to own - eventhough you know nothing about the technicalities of breeding for the breed you are enquiring about. In my breeds, the breeders who know the most, and who are the best at that they do, own more than a few dogs. There is no substitute for experience and understanding, other than doing it yourself. The more dogs you observe and interact with, the more you learn about your breed, its morphology and development; the nuances of breed temperament and why they do what they do. Of course, a breeder that does not seek to learn will understand nothing whether they own 1 or 1000 dogs. But for a breeder that is dedicated to their breed, a puppy buyer would be a fool to assume that because such a breeder owns x amount of dogs, it has a bearing on whether the breeder is ethical or not. Never did a breeder make an impact on their breed(s), by owning one or two dogs. To develop an eye and to know your breed - where it came from, where it is and where it is going - a breeder needs overview. And you cannot get this overview unless the dogs (many plurals!) become part of your life. or haha maybe I look too much to the steppes

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical. Once again a value based judgement based on PC not facts. How many dogs do you deem it is ethical for a breeder to own? A breeder with more dogs, breeding a few litters per year generally knows more about the breed, than the breeder with one or two dogs who might breed once a year or every two years. Lilli - what I find ethical someone else might not. That is my choice. It certainly wouldn't be the only question I asked, and I wouldn't do it via email. But I am free to ask questions to find out about the breeder. We keep on telling people to buy from ethical sources. Should we stop that? Should be just say 'buy from whoever is registered with the cc because, god forbid, we ask a question that may offend". Of course you can hold your own opinion on what is ethical. Even if it has no bearing on what a good breeder does or doesn't do. Personally I dont see the point of supporting questions that actually show me the asker doesn't have an idea about the technicalities of what I am doing.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical. Yep, can't have it both ways. IF breeders can be choosy about their puppy buyers and make judgements on their suitability, then it has to be in reverse too. If I don't want to buy from a breeder with over X amount of dogs, that should be my choice as someone about to part with all that money. Of course it should go in reverse. But this type of question is typical PC question and the person asking generally doesn't really know what they are on about (in this context). Okay so you ask me as a breeder how many dogs I have, and I tell you 20. What does that tell you? All you can apply is a perceived idea about how many dogs an 'ethical' (sic) breeder has. It doesn't tell you about my dogs, how I breed, what type of breeder I am. You don't know the circumstance, all you have is an ideal in your head about what good breeders do. But the ideal is a long way from actuality. And so it does not serve as a good reference point.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical. Once again a value based judgement based on PC not facts. How many dogs do you deem it is ethical for a breeder to own? A breeder with more dogs, breeding a few litters per year generally knows more about the breed, than the breeder with one or two dogs who might breed once a year or every two years.

of course. I don't mind if someone asks me about price in the first question. Its a logical, unknown to ask and has a direct impact to the buyer. Anything that asks me about breeding, I'm going to turn back on the buyer and ask them why they want to know. If we're going to discuss breeding, no problem, we can discuss breeding plans, goals, agendas until the cows come home. But know what you are talking about. Price is important because price is linked in with purpose. A pet puppy may cost $1800 but a puppy for future show/breeding from the same litter may cost you $5000. So yes it is important to know about price.

These are not mutually exclusive. In any case, how do you determine if a breeder has litters for the purpose of sale only. And btw, it is impossible to do best by the breed if you do not have a litter to sell the puppies. I mean that is just stupidity. $40, 000 in import costs. Don't sell any puppies. Makes no sense. If you dont know a lot about breeding, then you can't apply value based assessments, because basically you're telling the breeder how to suck eggs, when in actuality other than idealised theory, you don't know much. That's okay, and its why puppy buyers go to breeders. But honestly, you have to leave your PC theories where you read them, because often they're written by people who have little idea also. As you have experienced, idealised theories cause complications and impediments when there need not be any What information are you trying to glean from this: Have the parents had a litter together before? Are they currently playing with kongs or chew toys? and why are these questions important to you? (this is what I would ask a puppy home if they asked me these questions. The reply will tell me a bit about your ethos and your understanding of breeding.)

The most important pre-nup ever

Bull Arab, I have never wanted a sticker for my car until I read your signature: My car windows are not dirty its Aussie Shepherd Nose Art!!! except I will have: My car windows are not dirty its Anatolian Ovcharka Nose Art!!! not that many will know what that is

Sorry I'm just thinking of your possible day job :D If you really like this breeder, I think JulesP's advice will repair the damage As a breeder, my first requirement is repertoire with the home and much of that is based on their person. If you are a perfunctory robot you cannot be a person; puppies require a fluid common sense environment and the intuition of a person

Ask him really nicely in his favourite way ;) What he agrees to subjugate, he cannot later retract.

haha Whoah sorry, if I got an email like that - I'd send you a nice tata, thanks-for-coming email also. Do you know how long it would take to answer all those questions properly? Best to try telephone and ask maybe two questions from each section. Then at the end of the phone call, ask if it is okay to ring back in a few days and ask some more. ... NB: A lot of the questions, infer there is a supposed right answer or that you have an opinion on what is the right answer. Eg: "Why do you breed?" I mean what type of answer are you looking for there? I could say, because I'm a nutcase but mostly this type of question is value based and at the end of the day, who are you to ask me why I breed.

Well if it is Vic based I really dont think there is any point, other than telling them to get a pet from a Council Registered Breeder in their new world for pets. All breeders in Vic that breed a puppy are puppy farms, so really to be correct and law abiding and ethical how can I recommend anything other than to buy a pet from a puppy farm in a government approved concrete penned facility? This is part one of the end result, for a better world for pets in Vic.