BJean

I'd be more inclined to think that the low incidence of bloat was because there was no bloat in the lineage of the greyhound study group. Anatolians are a tall deep chested breed, and there has been no - low incidence of bloat in the Australian gene pool for the past 15 years at least.

If bloat is not in Max and Jenna genes ie: if Max and Jenna have no relatives or ancestors which have suffered from bloat then that is the best prevention. If Max and Jenna do have bloat in their familial history, then Max and Jenna are also likely to have a genetic predisposition for bloat. You can lower the risk of bloat occurring by managing environmental factors which can trigger bloat in the predisposed dog. IE: Overall holistic health of the dog through: Diet and Routine. And minimizing sudden changes or activities likely to increase stress or anxiety in Max and Jenna.

A dog will not change its personality and predilections overnight. Quivering and panting are as persephone said, indicators that something is bothering your dog - enough to alter his normal behaviour and thinking patterns. For creatures of habit, this is a big thing I would check his pupils (are they dilated) and gums (if you press the gum does the blood return immediately)? and take him to a good vet asap. Oh is he is sitting in the wardrobe it could be snake bite. They seek the dark and become almost paranoid at first Gooo to the vet! Best wishes.

I totally agree with you, oakway. All our dogs in recent times have been retired showdogs from ethical registered breeders. Whose only aim was to place their retired dogs in good pet homes they've screened thoroughly.....and which are likely to 'stick'. I've also noticed that, until just the right home comes along, they will not part with a dog. You are right that dogs sourced like this can give new owners many hours of pleasure. The critical thing, is how they've been raised by their breeders. DOLers, in previous posts, have described how puppies need to be socialised.....and also how all the parent dogs need that continually, too. It's not only a matter of welfare as the dogs need to experience being companion dogs, the same as any pet dog. But also it's critical for how the adult dogs, especially the mothers, interact with & teach their puppies. Our retired showdogs, now desexed pets, have come from backgrounds like that.... & are indeed the wonderful dogs you describe. I'd love to take credit for their socially confident, affectionate, & sensible behaviours. But I'm always confessing that they came like that, from the ethical registered breeders who raised them. Yes mita this is correct and crucial for a dog's life outcome. However the OP's assertion, that the dogs she read about that needed to be rehomed, and/or rehomed to multiple homes, are in this situation because the dogs are not raised properly, is erroneous - by simple virtue that the OP does not know why these individual dogs are being rehomed, or why the seller preferred a single dog household. (Or how rescue/rehome sites select their listings) There are many reasons why a seller may stipulate and prefer, a one dog household. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with a dog that needs to be the only dog in the family! A dog needing and being better off in a single dog household (or not being suitable for a home with children or with cats) does not equal a poorly socialised (sic) or inadequately bred and reared dog.

Hope you find Alvin soon Clyde missing a bub is the worst...

Nor do I. What I have issue with is the huge gaps of cause and effect in the OPs claim that they have been 'overwhelmed' with the numbers of dogs from breeders, that need to be rehomed into one dog households, because the dogs are not socialised properly. And this is further evidenced by 25% of rehomed dogs having to be rehomed again. Come on. My criticism of the OP has nothing to do with me breeding ASD or CAS - but everything to do with the OP not considering breed traits of the dogs being advertised, AND that if any rehomed dog has to be 'relisted', it's because the dog was not bred correctly or socialised - and nothing to do with the actual mismatch of dog and home. It is a ridiculous argument. Well you clearly have a bee in your bonnet about something, but you’re over analysing my post with assumptions. I made a brief post about something I have noticed. I didn’t bother listing every ad word for word just gave a brief idea of what was being listed. If I had listed them all word for word it would have taken up pages in the original post. I was unaware that all posts/topics on a forum had to be an argument. I’ve not said “that if any rehomed dog has to be 'relisted', it's because the dog was not bred correctly or socialised”. I’ve just said they were relisted due to not working out.at the new homes. You said: Isn't one of the most common reasons people breed to better the breed? well one that people will tell you. I am a member of a few breed specific rescue pages on facebook most just in my area (well with in 100kms). and over the last few months i've been overwhelmed with the number of dogs that need re-homing 85-90% which are either 12mth old ex show dogs or older bitches from show homes. but neally all of them can not be re-homed with other dogs. most tell the same story. no longer being shown so needs a new home but not social with dogs, other animals or children. often living in a run etc. and abot 25% or more are finding them selfs re-listed due to not working out at the new homes. If we choose to breed to better the breed shouldn't we be making sure that our dogs are socialised so that they have the best chance of finding suitable good homes along with type, temp and health etc. Once again: this is to do with you saying the cause of these dogs requiring single dog households and the cause of dogs needing to be rehomed multiple times, is the result of inadequate socialisation, the result of breeders not breeding for the betterment of the breed. So ... you're 'overwhelemed' by the number of dogs that have only lived as the only dog, and when these dogs need to be rehomed they require to be the only dog in the house??? You think a dog needs to be the only dog in the household because it is not trained / socialised properly? which few breed are you overwhelmed by the number of needing to go to single dog households and rehomed multiple times due to lack of socialization? Maybe it would help your state of being overwhelmed, if you stopped drawing erroneous conclusions and attributing emotive imgainary story lines, to why ex show dogs are being advertised on a 'RESCUE' site, and instead contact the site administrator to ask them how/why their advertisements are edited and selected.

It's amazing ... Until recently (December 2011), Malaysia had an outright ban on dogs from Australia. To go to China today, dogs from Australia must be quarantined in Australia for 28days. Australia, disease free? http://www.brisbanet...0107-1pp4z.html Not sure where you are getting your information from?!? Malaysia hasn't had a ban on dogs from Australia! And there is no quarantine in Australia for dogs going to China if they are travelling accompanied (ie one pet per passenger) - the criteria you speak of is for commercial shipments and very rarely done as there is too many hoops to jump through. Yes Malaysia has had a ban on ALL dogs from Australia. PNG also: This is to inform all importers, transportation agents, forwarding agents and other relevant stakeholders that a temporary ban is hereby instituted on imports of live cats and dogs from Australia into Papua New Guinea due to the Hendra virus outbreak in parts of Queensland and New South Wales, and the detection of evidence of infection in a pet dog on an infected horse farm on Wednesday 27 July 2011. This is the first time that a dog has been infected (outside of the laboratory environment). It is unknown as to how significant this evidence of exposure/infection with Hendra Virus in dogs is as far as public health is concerned. As a precautionary measure, NAQIA will not process any further permit for importation of live dogs and cats from Australia. This status will remain until further notice. NAQIA is currently communicating with Australian biosecurity and quarantine authorities to ascertain further information. NAQIA will further assess the situation and advise importers and stakeholders accordingly http://www.naqia.gov.pg/News/New%20diseases.html

Well that is very clever for Australia to get you to look outward for a source of fear (and infection) ... Hmm it was only last week that another hush hush hendra outbreak occured in QLD. Hendra is carried by bats too. But let's blame rabies. And rabies from another country! Quick let's increase our quarantine and reduce our liberties to protect ourselves!

It's amazing ... Until recently (December 2011), Malaysia had an outright ban on dogs from Australia. To go to China today, dogs from Australia must be quarantined in Australia for 28days. Australia, disease free? http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/cats-can-transmit-deadly-hendra-virus-chief-vet-20120107-1pp4z.html

What's funny, is that Australia has this perception it is disease free and necessitating OTT quarantine procedures, while the hush hush hendra playing out in Queensland resulted in dogs from Australia not only being banned outright from entering Malaysia, but banned from traveling on any plane that may leave Australia and subsequently go on Malaysia at a later date. To go to China: 3. dogs and cats from Australia must proceed from farms where, for the past six months, has not been contaminated by Hendra Virus and have been put into quarantine in places designated by the Australian government for 28 days, been tested for two times with negative responses, and without any symptoms of Hendra Virus.

Nor do I. What I have issue with is the huge gaps of cause and effect in the OPs claim that they have been 'overwhelmed' with the numbers of dogs from breeders, that need to be rehomed into one dog households, because the dogs are not socialised properly. And this is further evidenced by 25% of rehomed dogs having to be rehomed again. Come on. My criticism of the OP has nothing to do with me breeding ASD or CAS - but everything to do with the OP not considering breed traits of the dogs being advertised, AND that if any rehomed dog has to be 'relisted', it's because the dog was not bred correctly or socialised - and nothing to do with the actual mismatch of dog and home. It is a ridiculous argument.

Following your initial instruction to read the DOL Bull Terrier Mature Dog List: I find: Although he is great with other dogs, we prefer he go to single dog home only..... He is looking for a home where he is the only dog. Will be desexed upon leaving and is all up to date with vaccinations and is also microchipped. Would prefer someone that has owned a Bull Terrier in the past and your yard will need to be fully fenced and secure. http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature/bull-terrier.asp How do these mature dog advertisements support the OP's theory that socialisation is lacking and breeders are not breeding for betterment for the breed?

What do you think this indicates?

You are attributing dogs needing to be rehomed into a one dog household and dogs being relisted, as the result of inadequate socialisation and breeders not breeding to better the breed.

This topic is about what Daveri *thinks* is occuring. Further, Daveri attributes a 25% RE-LIST rate on the dog being rehomed not the homeing process. Her cause and effect is based on incomplete knowledge of what it is she is trying to make assertions about.

According to the OP.

Yes, just like you can't keep every foal or indeed every broodmare. Some dogs just do not live well with other dogs, it is not so much about 'socialisation' but the base nature of the dog. A dog which is fine with other dogs in neutral territory, could be quite domineering in their own territory. And so, for the safety for all concerned and happy outcome of the rehomed dog and new family, the dog is better to be the only dog in the household. I actually think it is prudent to rehome medium - large adult dogs to one dog households. Okay well this has little to do with breeding for the betterment of the breed. How many dogs have you raised and what breeds are you familiar with? A horse lives in a paddock not in the home. Not to mention you cannot compare the psyche and social interation and requirements of a dog to a horse. I have both dogs and horses and how I raise a puppy/dog does not make it suitable to be rehomed into a multi dog household with children. So much more is at stake with dogs than horses. That's the problem. Foals and puppies: very little correlation. Why do the Rescue group list the dog? RESCUE is becoming less and less about 'rescue' but more and more about 'rehoming'. Yes, to me there is a difference. But not so in the online world.

You said they were ex show dogs and ex breeding bitches. You do understand that the activity of showing dogs in itself amounts to 'socialisation'? Bull Terriers, like some other breeds do not readily accept other dogs once adults. Moreover, dogs living under the same roof have little correlation to how a dog behaves with other dogs in a neutral setting. My issue with your thread and pontifications about breeding for the betterment of the breed (sic) is that they read like you do not know much about dog shows, dog interaction and dare I say it, dog breeding. That's no big deal in itself - but when you make draw negative conclusions based on incomplete understanding or experience, and announce your statements as if what you say is fact all you do is perpetuate bias and misinformation.

Western Union is simple and immediate, the receiver incurs no costs.

Are you a Rescue or a rehoming service? Really, which breeds? if 25% of the dogs are are not working out in the new homes you put them in, I'd say the problem is with the assessment and home selection process - not the dogs.

Goodness lots of ideal sterotypes and romantic notions in here ... reminds me of the ye olde handbooks that describe how to identify a good virtuous woman suitable to make into a wife ... how she might dress and conduct herself ... what she bakes on Sundays ...

Well you seem to be knowledgeable about what "betterment for the breed" requires, perhaps you can explain why show involvement and litter advertisements are useful yard sticks to assess breeders with?

The document has replaced 'choice' with Standards. Lot's of ifs and fluff when there is no need. It is clearly stated: This Code is designed for everyone involved in the activity of breeding dogs and cats and has been developed to protect the welfare of the animals in their care. I doubt most companion animal owners will even read it. whether "designed in particular" or as a result of the design, the majority of hobby dog breeders are adversely affected or impinged upon, is hardly a good thing for the future of dog ownership and hobby dog breeding.

Well you shouldn't remove my comment from the context of byb. But your question is exactly what my query is. How does the code benefit, and not restrict, among others of course, the breeding of working dogs like the Maremma? Also, the situation in Italy is very interesting but we are concerned with NSW at the moment. I don't think Steve lives in Italy